Gunner's 2025 Mock Draft - v1.0

[dave mcbride]

6 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Imo Taylor Swift presents a better argument.

What would that be? Houston, which had a bad offense this season, stymied KC (and Buffalo earlier in the season; it wa arguably Allen’s worst game in the past 5 years) because they have elite corners who can play man well. Elam sucks, but the best player for kc in that game was McDuffie. And he made the game-deciding play in last year’s SB. I now think you conflate all early CB picks — good and bad — as *all* bad and are so conscious of being “on brand” on this message board (sorta as a gimmick) that you lose sight of what NFL teams rightly value — defending against the pass.

[Bill from NYC]

Dave, I always have (and still do) consider you to be a very good poster. That said, I'm really not concerned at all what you think of me, or my posts.

 

If you do not think that this game was influenced by the league, the refs, and the marketing value of Taylor Swift I think that is wonderful. If you think that cornerbacks (and McDuffie is very good) determined the outvome of this game more than the marketing value that Taylor Swift brings to the league, more power to ya. 

 

Above, you cite the Houston game. I'm glad that it meant a lot to you. To me it meant zero. There are podcasts galore claiming that our game was rigged, complete with insane spots, and uncalled face mask penalties against the Chiefs. If you think this game was decided by cornerback play, congrats!

 

Finally, yes; I will be unhappy if the Bills draft a first round corner because I think that they have other more important needs. I will however be happy for you. and I'm serious. Again, I would regret the pick but it would be nice to know that at least one fellow fan/poster will be lounging in cornerback heaven.

 

Be well.

Edited Saturday at 11:40 AM by Bill from NYC

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I just don't see Harmon @ 310lbs playing 1T?   Now, put a little more weight on him and it's possible. 

 

I think he played heavier. I have seen him listed at 317lbs. That is roughly where I expect him to play at in the NFL. Somewhere between 315lbs and 320lbs which is right in the middle of the range for modern 1Ts. Indeed there are 1Ts who play at 310lbs. There are not many old school 340lbs beasts out there now and those that are generally are playing as true nose tackles in 3-4 schemes.

10 hours ago, Magox said:

This guy with one of the second round picks could be interesting.   He will probably be the fastest guy in the combine.  Incredibly talented just is kind of raw and had issues with drops.   
 

He plays as fast as what his timed speed is which will be in the 4.2’s

 

Good physical blocker as well.

 

 

 

 

If he has his head on straight and works on his craft I could see him being a game breaking WR.

 

He needs to catch the damn ball. His hands are BAD.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

22 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills arguably lost to KC because of fielding marginal, low-athletic-skills secondary players vs KC. It's a huge need. 

When I saw Hamlin chasing Worthy I was like FFS!

[4BillsintheBurgh]

16 hours ago, Magox said:

This guy with one of the second round picks could be interesting.   He will probably be the fastest guy in the combine.  Incredibly talented just is kind of raw and had issues with drops.   
 

He plays as fast as what his timed speed is which will be in the 4.2’s

 

Good physical blocker as well

If he has his head on straight and works on his craft I could see him being a game breaking WR.

Some wr's are hands catchers, this dudes a basket catcher. Others high point, he low points. Question is what's the story and can you get his technique up to snuff, there's probably a long list of folks who have tried.

[White Linen]

What an incredible amount of work and effort to put this together.  I sometimes disagree with Gunner but this is impressive.

[Magox]

8 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Some wr's are hands catchers, this dudes a basket catcher. Others high point, he low points. Question is what's the story and can you get his technique up to snuff, there's probably a long list of folks who have tried.

 

In terms of his physical tools and the explosiveness and twitch he plays with, he's extremely unique.   If he was a better catcher of the ball, he wouldn't be around at the end of the 2nd round.   The Bills would have to do their homework and see if they could develop him, if they think they could then he would excite me more so than any other receiver that would be available at the end of the 2nd round.

 

We know that the Bills like their receivers to be able to block and we know that they want to attack the field vertically more, McD said as much in his presser, I think he's the sort of physical profile of a player that they will take a long hard look at.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

On 1/29/2025 at 8:47 AM, GunnerBill said:

29 – Washington Commanders – Mike Green – Edge Rusher, Marshall

The Commanders are well stocked in the middle of their defensive line with Jonathan Allen and Daron Payne joined by last year’s second round pick Johnny Newton but on the edge their 2024 sack leader Dante Fowler Jnr is an upcoming free agent and Green is an intriguing prospect whose all-round game needs some work but who as a pure pass rusher is dynamite.

Finally got around to watching some of this guy tonight. Wow, does he jump off the tape. Dude is twitchy and has a very natural wiggle to work around blockers in both the pass and ground game. Hes got good enough bend for a big guy, and he loves him some swim move. He is a relentless rusher and he really plays to his athleticism. 
 

My biggest knock on him so far is his use of his hands when engaged. I imagine he’s been so gifted as an athlete that he’s just been able to win with pure athleticism on the edge. At the next level, I’d be concerned about him getting locked up with blockers and disengaging. Hes seemed strong enough at the point of attack, but rarely seemed to gain extension with his hands allowing guys to get inside of his pads.
 

As I was watching him I thought “Raven” so came here to see where you had him mocked. Definitely a guy who likes to play out of the 2 pt stance, so I could see him being an off the ball player at the next level. Obv his fit in the 4-3 is there and WAS does make sense.
 

How would you feel if he went #30 to Buffalo? I’d be concerned about his ability to set the edge and rush within structure in the McD defense, but I know nothing of his personality, coachibility, etc.

 

Strikes me as a high ceiling, low floor guy and not the pick id see Beane making if he were there (or in the area to go get).  

Edited Saturday at 04:12 AM by EmotionallyUnstable

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Finally got around to watching some of this guy tonight. Wow, does he jump off the tape. Dude is twitchy and has a very natural wiggle to work around blockers in both the pass and ground game. Hes got good enough bend for a big guy, and he loves him some swim move. He is a relentless rusher and he really plays to his athleticism. 
 

My biggest knock on him so far is his use of his hands when engaged. I imagine he’s been so gifted as an athlete that he’s just been able to win with pure athleticism on the edge. At the next level, I’d be concerned about him getting locked up with blockers and disengaging. Hes seemed strong enough at the point of attack, but rarely seemed to gain extension with his hands allowing guys to get inside of his pads.
 

As I was watching him I thought “Raven” so came here to see where you had him mocked. Definitely a guy who likes to play out of the 2 pt stance, so I could see him being an off the ball player at the next level. Obv his fit in the 4-3 is there and WAS does make sense.
 

How would you feel if he went #30 to Buffalo? I’d be concerned about his ability to set the edge and rush within structure in the McD defense, but I know nothing of his personality, coachibility, etc.

 

Strikes me as a high ceiling, low floor guy and not the pick id see Beane making if he were there (or in the area to go get).  

 

Yea basically you see what I see. Twitchy, bendy, explosive all the unteachable raw abilities you want in a pass rusher but at the moment he isn't a 3 down player, especially in a 4-3 front because: he has a tendency to lose contain (not just in the run game but in his rush lanes too, I'd worry if you were playing Baltimore for example or playing against the Bills, Lamar and Josh would let him bend out round the top and escape through his gap); doesn't anchor super well and needs to add strength in his lower half and your point about hand usage is a good one - he lets OL get their hands inside onto his chest too often and when they do he doesn't always appear to have a counter move. Does worry me a tad that the reports from Senior Bowl practices have been "when he can get the edge unblockable but when he has tried to bull rush, ineffectual." There is an adjustment for him in terms of going up against legit NFL level tackles. 

 

I'd be very happy to take him for the Bills use him as a designated pass rusher for 1 or 2 years while you develop him and hopefully by late year 2 or year 3 he can be an every down guy... but he doesn't strike me as a Brandon Beane first round pick right now.

[Richard Noggin]

On 1/29/2025 at 5:57 PM, djp14150 said:

Free agency drive the first rounds of this draft…

 

coleman, Shakir are back at WR thrn you have Hollis, Cooper and Samuel.. if try keep cooper thrn therr are likely not drafting a WR on day 1 &2

 

 

Keeping Cooper should have ZERO impact on drafting a Day One WR. Having drafted Kincaid and Coleman YoY should have more impact on that decision tbh. Unfortunately, neither has shown more than occasional flashes of ability so far. But signing a 30-year old Cooper shouldn't be considered anything more than a one year stop gap on the boundary. Still gotta stock the pipeline behind him. 

 

On 1/30/2025 at 3:14 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think it is fair to say Harmon is just a run stopper. As I said in the mock he had more QB pressures than any DT in the FBS last season. I think he brings more pass rush potential than either of the two 1Ts they have had here in Star and DQ. But yes his run game fundamentals are part of why I think he would be attractive to them. They like long arms, good pad level and solid fundamentals and Harmon ticks all those boxes.

 

Yea, exactly. Played all over for the Ducks but mostly 3T. I think he projects better as a 1T in a modern NFL defense but he is gonna give you more pass rush juice than a lot of traditional 1Ts.

 

I know Bond is gonna run fast but I would be really surprised if he ends up late 1st based on his film. I would want no part of him there. That is a reach IMO.

 

Harmon strikes me as the perfect odd-front DE/DT. So much length and leverage. Even fronts like the Bills, Rams, Lions, Eagles, Bengals, etc., run, often rely on narrower, more specific/specialized position fits, whereas flexible odd fronts like the Steelers, Chiefs, Patriots, Packers, etc., can more easily find roles for tweeners and freaks. 

 

On 1/30/2025 at 7:21 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

I just don't see Harmon @ 310lbs playing 1T?   Now, put a little more weight on him and it's possible. 

 

His comp on BR is Daquan Jones, so 1T isn't crazy. But in general I agree that he could be more dominant kicked out a gap or two wider on many snaps. 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

Looking at some mocks I see alot of Harmon or Grant @ 30.  Even saw a couple trade ups for Luther Burden III (WR/ Mizzou). Maybe JTT as a possible edge rusher? If Revel falls to us, I think Sean would run to the podium.  Also Nolen is in the mix too.   Those are the key positional areas!

Edited Saturday at 08:12 AM by LABILLBACKER

[eball]

I don’t dislike it at all, but I’m wondering where the athleticism in the secondary is going to come from…

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

15 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Finally got around to watching some of this guy tonight. Wow, does he jump off the tape. Dude is twitchy and has a very natural wiggle to work around blockers in both the pass and ground game. Hes got good enough bend for a big guy, and he loves him some swim move. He is a relentless rusher and he really plays to his athleticism. 
 

My biggest knock on him so far is his use of his hands when engaged. I imagine he’s been so gifted as an athlete that he’s just been able to win with pure athleticism on the edge. At the next level, I’d be concerned about him getting locked up with blockers and disengaging. Hes seemed strong enough at the point of attack, but rarely seemed to gain extension with his hands allowing guys to get inside of his pads.
 

As I was watching him I thought “Raven” so came here to see where you had him mocked. Definitely a guy who likes to play out of the 2 pt stance, so I could see him being an off the ball player at the next level. Obv his fit in the 4-3 is there and WAS does make sense.
 

How would you feel if he went #30 to Buffalo? I’d be concerned about his ability to set the edge and rush within structure in the McD defense, but I know nothing of his personality, coachibility, etc.

 

Strikes me as a high ceiling, low floor guy and not the pick id see Beane making if he were there (or in the area to go get).  

 

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea basically you see what I see. Twitchy, bendy, explosive all the unteachable raw abilities you want in a pass rusher but at the moment he isn't a 3 down player, especially in a 4-3 front because: he has a tendency to lose contain (not just in the run game but in his rush lanes too, I'd worry if you were playing Baltimore for example or playing against the Bills, Lamar and Josh would let him bend out round the top and escape through his gap); doesn't anchor super well and needs to add strength in his lower half and your point about hand usage is a good one - he lets OL get their hands inside onto his chest too often and when they do he doesn't always appear to have a counter move. Does worry me a tad that the reports from Senior Bowl practices have been "when he can get the edge unblockable but when he has tried to bull rush, ineffectual." There is an adjustment for him in terms of going up against legit NFL level tackles. 

 

I'd be very happy to take him for the Bills use him as a designated pass rusher for 1 or 2 years while you develop him and hopefully by late year 2 or year 3 he can be an every down guy... but he doesn't strike me as a Brandon Beane first round pick right now.

I think he was recruited as a WR

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

I think he was recruited as a WR

 

Interesting, thanks. That doesn't surprise me with the rawness. Still the tools he has are the things that are rare to find. If it takes me a season or 2 to teach him the rest I think I can live with it.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Just FYI re: the Steelers, earlier today I heard one of the local guys discussing how much time Tomlin was spending with the dline. He was basically leading the drills etc. He thought it stood out enough to consider the dline a highly likely pick for them, possiblyone high and one later. The guy was from steelersnow.com but I didn't see an article about the senior bowl yet. 

 

Found it. https://steelersnow.com/saunders-what-we-learned-about-steelers-offseason-plans-at-senior-bowl/

 

Edited Saturday at 10:14 PM by 4BillsintheBurgh

[quincy]

On 1/31/2025 at 11:00 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he played heavier. I have seen him listed at 317lbs. That is roughly where I expect him to play at in the NFL. Somewhere between 315lbs and 320lbs which is right in the middle of the range for modern 1Ts. Indeed there are 1Ts who play at 310lbs. There are not many old school 340lbs beasts out there now and those that are generally are playing as true nose tackles in 3-4 schemes.

 

He needs to catch the damn ball. His hands are BAD.

 

Given the fact that Ed Oliver is more or less giving up 40lbs to most opposing Guards or Centers, are there any 335lb players that are suitable to our system and can be drafted? Vita Vea type build (I know he is a Nose Tackle). 

[NoSaint]

I’ll say I’ve thought of him as a guy on the radar before but after the senior bowl mvp he will be a familiar name to many more here: jack bech

 

i don’t love him as the guy I’d want to target but boy does he present as a prototype for what we’ve seen in our wr room. Large frame, physical blocker… has long speed but not super twitchy. 
 

character wise- is from a really solid family. Brother played at Princeton and died saving others during the NYD attack in NOLA. 
 

 

just strikes me as the absolute prototype for this regime as a mid round pick, so I’d be curious to see a work up from someone that’s seen more TCU games.

[colin]

On 1/30/2025 at 7:09 PM, Magox said:

This guy with one of the second round picks could be interesting.   He will probably be the fastest guy in the combine.  Incredibly talented just is kind of raw and had issues with drops.   
 

He plays as fast as what his timed speed is which will be in the 4.2’s

 

Good physical blocker as well.

 

 

 

 

If he has his head on straight and works on his craft I could see him being a game breaking WR.

 

The way that guy looked in those drills reminded me of Terrell Owens.

 

TO was unique in that he ran all his routes full speed.  Helmet would go over his eyes, head leaning way forward over his front foot, most coaches think of that as a mistake, but he made it work.

 

TO also had real hands issues early, lots of drops often from the in a hurry way he always played.

 

This guy might amount to jack, but that's who he reminds me of

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, quincy said:

 

Given the fact that Ed Oliver is more or less giving up 40lbs to most opposing Guards or Centers, are there any 335lb players that are suitable to our system and can be drafted? Vita Vea type build (I know he is a Nose Tackle). 

 

Kenneth Grant from Michigan is a bigger guy with enough talent to play as a 1T in 4-3 or as a true nose in a 3-4. Tyliek Williams from Ohio State could too. Some think Deone Walker from Kentucky but I think am a bit lower than most on him. Personally if you want that type - a 1T who is just a massive body to try and move I'd be looking early day 3 at guys like Jamaree Caldwell out of Oregon or Yahaya Black out of Iowa. 

 

Personally I am less obsessed with getting a huge guy but they would be the names if you are.

 

[MiracleAtRich1393]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Kenneth Grant from Michigan is a bigger guy with enough talent to play as a 1T in 4-3 or as a true nose in a 3-4. Tyliek Williams from Ohio State could too. Some think Deone Walker from Kentucky but I think am a bit lower than most on him. Personally if you want that type - a 1T who is just a massive body to try and move I'd be looking early day 3 at guys like Jamaree Caldwell out of Oregon or Yahaya Black out of Iowa. 

 

Personally I am less obsessed with getting a huge guy but they would be the names if you are.

 

I can't find measurements anywhere so maybe won't know until the combine but I keep seeing that Tyliek has short arms. IMO that's the main reason Oliver disappears in big moments, if he doesn't get a great jump he's easily held at bay. Love Tyliek's size but if he's under 32" arm length I might be out. Open to hearing from more people in the know on that though, because he's highly intriguing to me. Almost a perfect fit at #30 otherwise.