Wide Receiver Train Full Speed Ahead- CHOO CHOO!

[SoCal Deek]

How many points do the Bills have to score before people on here believe they’d be safe enough to overcome McDs classically porous defense. Just give me a number? 50 points per game? 100? 

[90sBills]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

A stellar WR breaking down WR play- this isnt Nick Wright.  The problems Smith points out are obvious when you watch Keon.  The Bills coaches know this.  Steve points out Keon flaws, and says Buffalo has great coaches, and they must go balistic when Keon does that.  Did you watch the video?  Keon is round peg, square hole in our offense.  Last year our #1 need was a vertical threat, and we failed with Keon.  This year, a vertical threat is still our need IMO.  We havent replaced John Brown yet

If only there was a speedy receiver when Bills pick came up in the first round last April…oh wait. 

[jethro_tull]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Bills must get Josh WRs who can catch the ball, who can separate, who can run a route tree, who can win vertically!!!!!!

yes we need DL, CB, DE.  But we have been neglecting Josh and WR his entire career.  4 year agos we desperately needed WR, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, and last year.,  We have ignored Josh's needs.  It is obvious we need WR. For the love of God, get Josh a few talented WRs!

Agreed 200%. 

Need more convincing?  

How many times (percent) is the called pass play executed quickly and efficiently- to the first or even second read?   HARDLY EVER !  Josh winds up scrambling around tryin to fine ANYONE to throw to.  

KC by comparison is a precision machine when it comes to executing the called pass play shorty after the ball is snapped.  

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Bills must get Josh WRs who can catch the ball, who can separate, who can run a route tree, who can win vertically!!!!!!

yes we need DL, CB, DE.  But we have been neglecting Josh and WR his entire career.  4 year agos we desperately needed WR, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, and last year.,  We have ignored Josh's needs.  It is obvious we need WR. For the love of God, get Josh a few talented WRs!

Why so much Keon Coleman hate? He’s shown some flashes this season. He was a rookie 2nd rounder. I don’t think he’ll ever be a dominant #1, but it’s definitely a start in rebuilding an abysmal WR core. Tight End is the real problem. Kincaid is mid. We could’ve gotten equal or better production out of a late rounder.

[90sBills]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

How many points do the Bills have to score before people on here believe they’d be safe enough to overcome McDs classically porous defense. Just give me a number? 50 points per game? 100? 

I don’t think it’s a set number. Every game is different. The number should be ‘more than your opponent’ when your offense has the ball in the waning minutes. Basically within 1 score with the ball in the last few minutes. We’ve been in that situation the last two years against KC. We couldn’t execute successfully. Get it done in those scenarios and we wouldn’t be talking about defense. We have an elite QB. That’s what elite QBs do. 

[DapperCam]

13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

How many points do the Bills have to score before people on here believe they’d be safe enough to overcome McDs classically porous defense. Just give me a number? 50 points per game? 100? 

42 wasn’t enough to beat the Rams, but 48 was enough to just beat the Lions.

 

Let’s split the difference and call it 45 points to feel comfortable. Just be by far the most dominant offense of all time. That’s a totally reasonable expectation.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

What if he says no and wants to honor his existing contract? Beane has mentioned that he doesn't want to restructure Josh's contract every year, but he has done every year. This could be a year where restructuring doesn't take place.

The extension or restrucutre does similiar things. Frees up money today and pushes much of it down the line.

If Josh does neither we will have less money to play with, and the conversation changes to Josh wants out.

Edited yesterday at 06:27 PM by ddaryl

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Lost said:

 

It still kinda bothers me that Joe Brady runs this offense like he has Daniel Jones at QB.   We have one of the 2 best QBs in the league and we're morphing into a run first protect the ball offense.   It makes no sense.   2 years ago the coaching staff were hell bent on trying to get Allen to run the ball less and protect his body.  This year they were dialing up designed QB runs every 3rd play.   The most dynamic offense the Bills have had in the Josh Allen era was in the 2021 playoff run and into early 2022 when we had an elite Diggs and could spread the field out more.   

 

And I don't even mind having an offense that commits to the run. Having an offense that can do everything well is obviously the preferred outcome. I just don't like how everything about the offense has become about small ball including the passing game. We have maybe the most gifted thrower in the history of the NFL and we intentionally built our passing offense to almost exclusively take place within 5 yards of the LoS. KC had to run their offense that way last year, and they spent their offseason signing Hollywood Brown and drafting Worthy. They made it a point to try and build a downfield passing offense again. We went the opposite direction. Then when we traded for Cooper to open up that part of our offense, we never committed to actually using him. And like you alluded to this offensive philosophy has gotten our QB killed. Seemingly every four games or so Allen had some kind of injury pop up, including the game that just ended our season.

 

We can't have a defense that can't get more than two stops against the Chiefs, and also an offense that can't afford to make a single mistake because it relies on 10 play drives. That is the opposite of complementary football. I miss the days where a false start or holding penalty or drop didn't immediately end a drive, where we would be in 3rd and 15 and I'd think "we got this."

 

Most of all I hate that I feel like I made this exact post word for word last offseason and here we are again. The "everybody eats" mentality failed to get us over the hump. 40 points per game. That has to be the mentality from now on.

 

Edited yesterday at 06:55 PM by HappyDays

[Augie]

5 hours ago, uticaclub said:

The Dline guys were busts too. Do you see a reoccurring theme?

 

We have SO MANY BUSTS….I wonder how we made it back to the AFCCG to lose by 3 points on the road to the 2 time defending SB Champs. 

 

I see a recurring theme, and it’s your complaining about stuff that seems nonsensical to me. How could we be so terrible, and still be so good? 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Our offense was so awesome this year. Again. It has been since 2019. It’s infuriating that people think this way. Every single thing about this team that’s broken is on defense. And it’s 90% scheme. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

30 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

And I don't even mind having an offense that commits to the run. Having an offense that can do everything well is obviously the preferred outcome. I just don't like how everything about the offense has become about small ball including the passing game. We have maybe the most gifted thrower in the history of the NFL and we intentionally built our passing offense to almost exclusively take place within 5 yards of the LoS. KC had to run their offense that way last year, and they spent their offseason signing Hollywood Brown and drafting Worthy. They made it a point to try and build a downfield passing offense again. We went the opposite direction. Then when we traded for Cooper to open up that part of our offense, we never committed to actually using him. And like you alluded to this offensive philosophy has gotten our QB killed. Seemingly every four games or so Allen had some kind of injury pop up, including the game that just ended our season.

 

We can't have a defense that can't get more than two stops against the Chiefs, and also an offense that can't afford to make a single mistake because it relies on 10 play drives. That is the opposite of complementary football. I miss the days where a false start or holding penalty or drop didn't immediately end a drive, where we would be in 3rd and 15 and I'd think "we got this."

 

Most of all I hate that I feel like I made this exact post word for word last offseason and here we are again. The "everybody eats" mentality failed to get us over the hump. 40 points per game. That has to be the mentality from now on.

 

There's a few ways to look at this but the way I see it is this. I think they play a low risk, ball control type of game because our defense isn't very good. And against the good play off teams the margin of error is basically zero. The way I look at the game on Sunday was even if Kincaid caught that ball and the Bills scored a TD to end that drive, the defense would have rolled over and played dead one more time to allow the Chiefs to march down the field in 5 or 6 plays with a minute or so and score a game winning TD. They play ball control to keep the D off the field. If the D was top 5 they'd open it up and put more stress on the other team's D and their offense to keep up.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:21 PM by All_Pro_Bills

[Figster]

I really want Buffalo's next draft to concentrate on the D.

 

Scoring was not the problem.

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

I really want Buffalo's next draft to concentrate on the D.

 

Scoring was not the problem.

 

Good teams are taking advantage of a strong running game. I’d love a Ted Washington in there, and we will have other needs, like CB. Our OL looks solid and deep. We need to win in the trenches on both sides of the ball. 

 

Oh, and even if Cooper stays, we still need to find an outside WR threat that will concern opponents. 

[HappyDays]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I think they play a low risk, ball control type of game because our defense isn't very good

 

I agree but I think they have the strategy backwards. If we come into the game knowing for a fact our opponent won't punt more than twice, we need to punt no more than once. And like you said our offense as currently structured has a way too low margin for error. And so the game ultimately comes down to the officials spotting the ball correctly on one of our five QB sneaks. We can't leave it up to the officials. We have to control the game ourselves and that starts with explosive offense.

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, Figster said:

I really want Buffalo's next draft to concentrate on the D.

 

Scoring was not the problem.

 

So this is the usual counterargument, that the offense was fine we just need the defense to be better. I was making that same argument myself after the 13 seconds game so I get it. But I was wrong then.

 

Basically where you're coming from is we have an A- offense and a D+ defense, so we need to raise the defense to a B- and then we'll win. I'm saying forget the defense. Make the offense an A+ offense and make the defense irrelevant. Because no matter how much we've invested in the defense over the years, we still end up with the same result.

 

I sincerely believe that we could spend every single cap dollar and draft pick on defense this year, and still in next year's playoff matchup against KC they will punt no more than twice and the game will come down to our offense having to score with no time remaining. That's how our last three playoff losses against them have gone. So I've accepted that's always going to be the game script under this coaching staff. The solution is not to try and change the game script, but to try and change the outcome within that game script. So adding to the offense is the only possible solution.

 

40 points per game. That has to be the strategy.

[T master]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Yeah I'd have no issue with cutting Samuel as didn't show very much, not sure if they WANT to do that from a cap standpoint??  Maybe they can get him to take a big pay cut??  Based on his performance this year, doubtful he'd get big money anywhere else.

 

Agree too both TE's are assets, but seemed like we never really went with that concept very much.  It would seem that since the WR group is one of the weakest areas and not having tons of cap space  using 2 TE's more would be a good strategy money wise.

 

Maybe 🤔 extend Samuel a year to make his contract a bit more cap friendly next season and give him some incentives who knows but for what they got out of him i think Samuels got the better of the deal not the Bills .

[All_Pro_Bills]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So this is the usual counterargument, that the offense was fine we just need the defense to be better. I was making that same argument myself after the 13 seconds game so I get it. But I was wrong then.

 

Basically where you're coming from is we have an A- offense and a D+ defense, so we need to raise the defense to a B- and then we'll win. I'm saying forget the defense. Make the offense an A+ offense and make the defense irrelevant. Because no matter how much we've invested in the defense over the years, we still end up with the same result.

 

I sincerely believe that we could spend every single cap dollar and draft pick on defense this year, and still in next year's playoff matchup against KC they will punt no more than twice and the game will come down to our offense having to score with no time remaining. That's how our last three playoff losses against them have gone. So I've accepted that's always going to be the game script under this coaching staff. The solution is not to try and change the game script, but to try and change the outcome within that game script. So adding to the offense is the only possible solution.

 

40 points per game. That has to be the strategy.

I think a fallacy in the argument is that it will take more resources to take the offense from an A- to an A+ than it would to improve the defense from a D+ to a B-.

 

Because its easier to improve something that's bad to average than it is to improve something that's excellent to close to perfection. 

[HappyDays]

1 minute ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Because its easier to improve something that's bad to average than it is to improve something that's excellent to close to perfection. 

 

You say this but we've never gotten average playoff defense. So for the current regime it's not easy, it's impossible. I believe that with Josh Allen an A+ offense is possible. We came close in 2020 but they weren't ready to go all the way yet. I think the new mature Allen with a similar supporting cast and a much better run game could be A+. In any case I'm now fully convinced that's the only path to glory so that's what I'd shoot for regardless of how feasible it is.

[90sBills]

34 minutes ago, Figster said:

I really want Buffalo's next draft to concentrate on the D.

 

Scoring was not the problem.

Yeah seeing how we came up 4pts short I’d say scoring was a problem. Especially that last drive when it mattered most. 

[FireChans]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

So this is the usual counterargument, that the offense was fine we just need the defense to be better. I was making that same argument myself after the 13 seconds game so I get it. But I was wrong then.

 

Basically where you're coming from is we have an A- offense and a D+ defense, so we need to raise the defense to a B- and then we'll win. I'm saying forget the defense. Make the offense an A+ offense and make the defense irrelevant. Because no matter how much we've invested in the defense over the years, we still end up with the same result.

 

I sincerely believe that we could spend every single cap dollar and draft pick on defense this year, and still in next year's playoff matchup against KC they will punt no more than twice and the game will come down to our offense having to score with no time remaining. That's how our last three playoff losses against them have gone. So I've accepted that's always going to be the game script under this coaching staff. The solution is not to try and change the game script, but to try and change the outcome within that game script. So adding to the offense is the only possible solution.

 

40 points per game. That has to be the strategy.

Trade the whole draft and Kincaid for DK + Garrett and go win it all.