Wide Receiver Train Full Speed Ahead- CHOO CHOO!

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, colin said:

 

I disagree.  our coaching staff has dumped resources into the D and had good regular season stats with worse regular season records (in years when the O was really good too, just not as good/consistent as it is now) and still sucked balls in the playoffs.  multiple times.

 

our path to a chip based on where we are now and with who our coaches are is to get a top flight vertical weapon WR on O, maybe improve interior pass pro (just one guy, can be a draft pick or a value signing), get one real guy on D (pass rush or CB, im leaning CB) and then just draft bodies on the D, BPA on that side of the ball.  

 

bishop elam douglas hamlin and johson was a horrible skill/speed/size mix for nearly half of the defensive players vs kc, and an off injury milano and banged up bernard were not very effective either.  our back 7 as a unit was a disaster vs baltimore and KC.  trying to turn them into the 85 bears is a fool's errand, our coaching has shown they cannot produce a big game D, but can produce a big game O.  aim for average on D, at a good price, and have this o take the small step it needs to literally be the best ever.

 

Every team spends resources on both sides of the ball...but saying we "dumped" resources is just not accurate.

 

We used 3 of our last 5 first round picks on weapons for Josh.  We have used 4 of our last 6 picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft on offense.  We had a draft a couple years ago where I think the entire draft but one pick was offense.  We already spent our 3rd this year on a WR in Cooper.  No disrespect, but we have been offensive heavy for 3 straight seasons before this one. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Every team spends resources on both sides of the ball...but saying we "dumped" resources is just not accurate.

 

We used 3 of our last 5 first round picks on weapons for Josh.  We have used 4 of our last 6 picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft on offense.  We had a draft a couple years ago where I think the entire draft but one pick was offense.  We already spent our 3rd this year on a WR in Cooper.  No disrespect, but we have been offensive heavy for 3 straight seasons before this one. 

 

Yea the issue the last couple of years has NOT been lack of resources allocated to O. It has been maximising the value they have got from those resources:

 

Kincaid, Torrence, Coleman, Samuel, Cooper....

 

That's a first; two seconds; a third and the biggest contract of last year's FA for the Bills. And they were among our worst performing offensive starters / regular rotational players in 2024. It isn't about spending more picks on O. It's about spending those picks better. 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

what I’m playing to is that he had 102 rush attempts on top of hits making miraculous throws on top of those limited sacks. 
 

the broken hand this year, the shoulder injuries… 

 

and yes, I do think the state of the WR room contributed to that- including the Samuel injury, coopers wrist, Keon etc… 

 

if we could run him 50% of that, and save a few super man throws - that’s maybe 60 fewer hits. 3.5 fewer times every week he’s peeling himself off the turf. 
 

but you need to surround him with more talent to keep the results while putting a limiter on his explosive contributions 

 

and then come January suddenly you have a healthier guy, more talent around him AND can put his cape on and get those extra 7 points 

 

we ask him to do too much and we’ve created margins of error that are too thin to get to the results the offense needs/expects. Maybe Keon/cooper/keon/samuel end up being that core next year.

 

This is the least that has ever been asked of him though.  And many of his runs will always be runs for Allen every year.  He is always going to be a guy they go to on down and short.  He is always going to be a guy who will take off if he sees a big opening.  

 

Again, no one is saying we don't need a WR.  The push back is to those who want to ignore defense and again (for the 4th offseason in a row) skew heavy to the offense, an offense that just finished as the 16th best in NFL history and that is with the offense taking whole quarters, even some halves off this year in blow out wins and not playing even in the last game.  

 

We for sure need to add a WR, but like the Chiefs dynasty...like the Pats dynasty...it doesn't need to be some all in move for an elite player while we just bandaid our defense again.  That isn't likely change much, if anything at all.  Go make the splash play on the defense to finally get one difference maker there, and then still add to our WR room with good players that fit the offense and address where we are weaker.  This is a spread the ball around offense who also wants to run the ball effectively for as long as Brady is here, some top end WR impact will be capped on that fact alone.  Not to mention, scoring is not our issue.  

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea the issue the last couple of years has NOT been lack of resources allocated to O. It has been maximising the value they have got from those resources:

 

Kincaid, Torrence, Coleman, Samuel, Cooper....

 

That's a first; two seconds; a third and the biggest contract of last year's FA for the Bills. And they were among our worst performing offensive starters / regular rotational players in 2024. It isn't about spending more picks on O. It's about spending those picks better. 

 

Yeah, and this is also why I don't want to rely on the draft solely to fix our issues because we haven't been hitting difference makers on either side of the ball with our premium picks which doesn't help to always be picking late.  Lots of starters, good players even, some busts...but we lack more impact players.  I would much rather see us do for our defense what Beane did for our offense when it needed that top level player to take the next step up...and that is trade for a proven impact player like he did with Diggs when the Allen needed it in his development.  

 

I expect WR, DL, S, and CB to be the focus this offseason, and I am just hoping for once we can go get that impact player on defense, something we have yet to have in the Allen era.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, and this is also why I don't want to rely on the draft solely to fix our issues because we haven't been hitting difference makers on either side of the ball with our premium picks which doesn't help to always be picking late.  Lots of starters, good players even, some busts...but we lack more impact players.  I would much rather see us do for our defense what Beane did for our offense when it needed that top level player to take the next step up...and that is trade for a proven impact player like he did with Diggs when the Allen needed it in his development.  

 

I expect WR, DL, S, and CB to be the focus this offseason, and I am just hoping for once we can go get that impact player on defense, something we have yet to have in the Allen era.  

 

It's a good Dline class this year but if I could trade my first for Max Crosby I'd seriously consider it. I think Garrett is a pipe dream. The price for him is starting at two first rounders, especially for a team like the Bills picking #30. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's a good Dline class this year but if I could trade my first for Max Crosby I'd seriously consider it. I think Garrett is a pipe dream. The price for him is starting at two first rounders, especially for a team like the Bills picking #30. 

I want Crosby because he also seems to like to mess with and get under mahomes skin

 

Always seems to be giving mahomes little elbows and extra shots 

[gjv]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Sure it was. 
 

My point (which I’m figuring you knew) is that judging a player’s overall game performance on the last meaningful play of the game is generally unwise. 
 

Your right. The criticism of Allen was unfair.

[Alphadawg7]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It's a good Dline class this year but if I could trade my first for Max Crosby I'd seriously consider it. I think Garrett is a pipe dream. The price for him is starting at two first rounders, especially for a team like the Bills picking #30. 

 

Maxx is my wish list player, he is younger too.  While I would definitely prefer to spend less than 2 first rounders, but given our firsts are so late, I wouldn't object to sending this years and next years first for either player.  

 

My wish list offseason would be see if we can get Maxx for a first and change and then see if we can send one of our 2nds to Seahawks for DK.  Not going to pretend to know how to make that work with the cap, but I would bet there is a path to make it work.  We land Maxx and DK, I don't care what we do with the rest of the roster, we are SB favorites next year. 

 

Admittedly, I would think that is highly unlikely we could get both...but that is why this I called it my "wish list" lol.  But if I can choose one or the other, I am going Maxx for sure.

Edited 15 hours ago by Alphadawg7

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, Pete said:

Riser: WR Jack Bech, TCU

May as well call him “Big Play Bech.”

Jack Bech exploded this season at TCU with explosive plays down the field and brought the same to the Senior Bowl practices, where he logged at least one big play down the field in each of the three days of practice. Bech has strong hands and is an uber-physical player, including in the run game, where he helps carve out added running room on the second level. 

Great character.  Bills DNA.  Definitely on Beanes radar IMO

 

I'm going to add two more names to look at who fit the Bills mold of what they are looking for at the outside wr position. 

 

That's to say good size and the ability to block. Now they need to add someone who can win 1v1 on the outside with top tier route running to create separation.

 

2nd round target Jaden Higgins.

6'4 215lbs. 85 catches, 1200 yards, 9TD's

 

4th round target Pat Bryant 

6'3 200lbs. 60 catches, 1000 yards 10TD's 

 

 

 

 

[Draconator]

On 1/29/2025 at 8:22 AM, Pete said:

Bills must get Josh WRs who can catch the ball, who can separate, who can run a route tree, who can win vertically!!!!!!

wut?

[colin]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Every team spends resources on both sides of the ball...but saying we "dumped" resources is just not accurate.

 

We used 3 of our last 5 first round picks on weapons for Josh.  We have used 4 of our last 6 picks in the first 2 rounds of the draft on offense.  We had a draft a couple years ago where I think the entire draft but one pick was offense.  We already spent our 3rd this year on a WR in Cooper.  No disrespect, but we have been offensive heavy for 3 straight seasons before this one. 

 

I don't mean what has happened lately, I mean what happened before.  After we got Diggs and had breakout Allen under a rookie contract (going into the 2021 and 2022 seasons, before our recent push on the OL and adding Kinkaid, Cook, Coleman, etc) we were mad D heavy.  Tre was on his big extension, Milano was extended, we got Von for the 2022 season, we drafted AJ, Groot, and Basham in consecutive years, drafted Elam in 2022, drafted Bernard in the 3rd in 2022, had Edmunds on his 5th year, and signed a plethora of DL (sadly, none really worked out).  we had the 1 and 2 ranked D in those years.  

 

So we did this push to build the D, and even with great regular season statistical success, they folded like a cheap suit in the playoffs.  Our O was and continued to be awesome in the playoffs, only stinker was cinci and the d was even worse in that game.

 

I'm simply applying the scientific method -- when we made moves to shore up the O (trading for diggs, bolstering the OL, putting resources into skill talent like cook, coleman, kincaid) our O just got better, even when those moves included some misses.  When we made moves for the D (much much more in terms of signings, cap, and draft picks) we didn't have a better regular season record than in 2024 or 2020 when we had worse D's statistically, and the D folded just the same as it did this season when our talent was clearly less.  So, we get our better returns on O than on D, in fact we basically eliminated our negative variance on O this season, fewest toxic plays (sack, turnover) in nfl history!  based on this and what i see is our schematic/coaching/philosophical limitations on D, coupled with having 3 top 5 guys on O (cook, brown, dawkins) and the goat at QB, I think we can put the O way over the top with one or two moves, and would be wise to be cheaper faster and younger on D.  I agree a real impact guy on DL or DB would be a huge gain, but it wouldn't put us over the top as clearly.  DK metcalf, or Amari cooper of 2 years ago would have IMO.

44 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Maxx is my wish list player, he is younger too.  While I would definitely prefer to spend less than 2 first rounders, but given our firsts are so late, I wouldn't object to sending this years and next years first for either player.  

 

My wish list offseason would be see if we can get Maxx for a first and change and then see if we can send one of our 2nds to Seahawks for DK.  Not going to pretend to know how to make that work with the cap, but I would bet there is a path to make it work.  We land Maxx and DK, I don't care what we do with the rest of the roster, we are SB favorites next year. 

 

Admittedly, I would think that is highly unlikely we could get both...but that is why this I called it my "wish list" lol.  But if I can choose one or the other, I am going Maxx for sure.

 

Where i disagree is i go DK over maxx -- in good part because his contract will be cheaper and i think he costs less picks to get, but the other reasons are as i've stated above.  I'm also kinda thinking a top CB might help our D more, but again that's value influenced (i think a top 12 guy at CB and some picks makes our secondary kinda nasty, i think maxx crosby helps the d more over the season statistically, but kc could scheme around him more than a secondary.

[sunshynman]

We had a big WR that is fast in Shavers. Hamlin and Virgil are speed guys. They sat on the PS almost all season. Not saying we can't get better WR's. But We could have tried using the speed we had to take the top off. 

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

I'm going to add two more names to look at who fit the Bills mold of what they are looking for at the outside wr position. 

 

That's to say good size and the ability to block. Now they need to add someone who can win 1v1 on the outside with top tier route running to create separation.

 

2nd round target Jaden Higgins.

6'4 215lbs. 85 catches, 1200 yards, 9TD's

 

4th round target Pat Bryant 

6'3 200lbs. 60 catches, 1000 yards 10TD's 

 

 

 

 

Sign me up for 2 WR.

[CNYfan]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea the issue the last couple of years has NOT been lack of resources allocated to O. It has been maximising the value they have got from those resources:

 

Kincaid, Torrence, Coleman, Samuel, Cooper....

 

That's a first; two seconds; a third and the biggest contract of last year's FA for the Bills. And they were among our worst performing offensive starters / regular rotational players in 2024. It isn't about spending more picks on O. It's about spending those picks better. 

I had high hopes for Kincaid, but he isn't all that.

My feelings about not wanting Coleman are well documented but it is true he was playing much better before the Poyer hit.

Torrence has been acceptable, and Samuel was injured most of the year.

 

I mostly agree with Dawg and Gunner though.  

Edited 13 hours ago by CNYfan

[machine gun kelly]

We definitely need a top speed WR, but our defensive needs are just as great.  It amazes me we’ve spent so much on defense, yet don’t have top talent for pass rushers and Douglas is getting older.

[BADOLBILZ]

59 minutes ago, sunshynman said:

We had a big WR that is fast in Shavers. Hamlin and Virgil are speed guys. They sat on the PS almost all season. Not saying we can't get better WR's. But We could have tried using the speed we had to take the top off. 

 

Fast but terrible receivers.   Shavers couldn't even make it as a WR in college.   Every team has a bunch of scrubs like that.   

[sunshynman]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Fast but terrible receivers.   Shavers couldn't even make it as a WR in college.   Every team has a bunch of scrubs like that.   

Still could have attempted to take the top off with their speed. Don't need to throw it to them.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Draconator said:

wut?

Post of the early offseason so far…well played sir hahaha.  I wonder how many people’s “missed” the beauty of this gem haha 

[Pete]

As Shoop and Bulldog have fantasy draft expert-   They ask about Quarterbacks and Running Backs.  The guest says where Bills draft there are two great safety’s, DL, nothing great at CB, but Bills have a big need at WR.   So Shoko and Bulldog ask about the safety’s. They did not ask about WRs, even when guest tried to steer conversation there. It’s like they don’t even watch the Bills lol

[Matt_In_NH]

I didn't know the WGR morning show has the name of Pete on this board.   The hyper focus on WR is ridiculous and while more WR talent would be better, there is not much evidence that it will make the difference.  There are several positions that shoudl be focused on, why is there never a DT train!!!!!???????