My all-time greatest Bills quarterback is not Josh Allen or Jim Kelly

[Sojourner]

This is truly a watergate thread!

[John Gianelli]

28 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

How many points could Jack put on our defense?

What matters is how much he put up on San Diego.

Just now, Sojourner said:

This is truly a watergate thread!

Explain, please.

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

And a ring at the end of the season.

Trent Dilfer had a ring too.

[Sojourner]

Just now, John Gianelli said:

What matters is how much he put up on San Diego.

John, you’re entitled to your opinion and it’s accurate to you. That’s all that matters. It’s not right or wrong. 
 

Im just making a joke in reference to other threads that have been starter. 

Go Jack!!!

2 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

What matters is how much he put up on San Diego.

Explain, please.

Another joke… referring to his political career and the resignation after the Watergate scandal. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

ok

[John Gianelli]

6 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

John, you’re entitled to your opinion and it’s accurate to you. That’s all that matters. It’s not right or wrong. 
 

Im just making a joke in reference to other threads that have been starter. 

Go Jack!!!

Another joke… referring to his political career and the resignation after the Watergate scandal. 

Yes, his political career! He gave the commencement address at my high school graduation in 1975. I swear, at the end of it even the liberals were ready to vote for him.

[CincyBillsFan]

39 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

It's Jack Kemp. The frustration of the four Super Bowl losses and our inability to get back to the Super Bowl under Josh Allen have convinced me that the real sign of greatness is motivating your team to win the biggest game. Kemp led the Bills to two league championships in 1964 and 1965. He wasn't as gifted an athlete as Allen, and didn't rack up the stats like Kelly. But he knew how to motivate his team to win when it counted most. I watched the '65 game when I was 8 years old. I wish every Bills fan could know what it feels like to win it all.

No.  Kemp is an all time legacy Bills player.  But the AFL in 1964 & 1965 was the minor leagues compared to the NFL.  When the AFL started getting better and approaching the NFL in quality Kemp and the Bills fell off the face of the planet.  The Chiefs beat the Bils 31 - 7 in the 1966 season champiosnhip game (in Buffalo) before being squashed by the Packers 35 - 10 in the 1st Super Bowl.

 

Allen's 5 straight division titles is a far greater accomplishment then Kemp's back to back AFL championships. And let's not even talk about Kelly's 4 straight Super Bowl appearances.

 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

He put up enough to win two rings.

Those early year AFL championships were pinky rings.

 

 

[The Cincinnati Kid]

5 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

I'll take that into consideration once he wins us a Super Bowl. And believe me, I hope he does, more than once.

This is a dumb argument. You’re opinion is yours and that’s great, but winning a Super Bowl does or doesn’t mean that Allen (and others) are not objectively better players than Kemp was. Each Era is it’s own and all of that, for sure matters here, but winning a Super Bowl in the NFL is ultimate team and organizational accomplishment. Allen has been nothing but spectacular in the playoffs (except the Bengals game, maybe) and is not anything close to the reason the Bills lost.

 

Also, I don’t give a damn about AFL championships that happened 60 years ago. You’d have to be 70ish years old to even remember it. If that’s you, cool and congrats on a long life lived.

 

Allen is the best QB this franchise has ever had and is likely the best QB this franchise will ever have. He is an absolute freak-show, alien, wrecking ball. Just enjoy it while it’s happening. No sense in getting into dark spaces about winning or losing super bowls. Enjoy the ride. It won’t happen again.

[LifeLongBillsFan]

Jim Kelly 

[CincyBillsFan]

21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I grew up watching the AFL teams.  Caught a pass from Kemp at autograph day.  He was a great leader and damn fine QB.

Professional football lost something primal with the merger.  The hatred between the two leagues was real and had me as a Bills fan rooting big time for the Jets & Chiefs in the 1968 & 1969 Super Bowl games.

 

But I also realized in hindsight that it wasn't until the late 60's that the best AFL teams were a match for the best NFL teams.  Those Kemp championship Bills teams would have been at best middle of the road NFL teams in 1964 & 1965.

 

For full disclosure, I was a Lamonica fan over Kemp.

[Bookie Man]

Before my time. What modern QB would compare his game to?

[Juice_32]

Sober up, it'll be aight.

[QCity]

39 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

I'll take that into consideration once he wins us a Super Bowl. And believe me, I hope he does, more than once.

 

I mean, Jack never won a Super Bowl either. Winning a title in an 8-team league doesn't carry the same weight.

[John Gianelli]

11 minutes ago, Bookie Man said:

Before my time. What modern QB would compare his game to?

Good question. Kemp had a very strong arm, and could run. Tough as nails. Wasn't the most accurate passer. But a great leader. To whom would you compare him?

[The Cincinnati Kid]

2 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

Good question. Kemp had a very strong arm, and could run. Tough as nails. Wasn't the most accurate passer. But a great leader. To whom would you compare him?

Jameis Winston.

[reddogblitz]

I was not a Buffalo fan back then, Don Meredith was my guy.  And I remember more of Jack's political career (he wanted to go back to the gold standard) than his football career.  

 

But I agree with you.

 

QBs job is to win.  Not put up fancy passing stats and scoring the most rushing yards or passing yards blah blah blah.  He touches the football on every play and has the greatest impact.  He gets paid the most money.  He has to be the team leader and get it done some way some how.  Josh I believe is a good leader but in the last 2 playoffs games he had the football down 3 with 2:00 to play.  I know its not ALL on him but a lot of it is.  He'll never be considered the best until he does.

 

Trent Dilfer is often laughed at around here but he got it done in large part due to leadership.  When he got to Baltimore mid season Baltimore was doing the whole "everybody eats" thing like us.  He said no, he wasn't going to do it.  He's gonna throw it to whoever is open.  The offense improved and the rest is history.  Just win baby.

 

As far as Jack's completion percentage goes, it was a different game back then.  Teams were playing bump and run.  Roughing the passer penalties were almost non existent.  Warren Wells was playing for Oakland.  Getting up whining for a flag was considered weak.  Today's guys would know how to handle it.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:41 AM by reddogblitz

[TheWeatherMan]

Josh Allen is so good that 2 of his last 3 OCs (all rookies at that) landed or will land HC jobs, Gabe Davis got a huge contract in Jax, Diggs became a top 2 WR and Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott still have jobs.  Remove Josh from this equation, none of this happens.  
 

Give Josh, Andy Reid as a HC, and he tops Brady as the GOAT 

[Slack_in_MA]

There’s always a thread that convinces me to tune out of TSW until the draft. This might be it.

[78thealltimegreat]

Hey I love Jack but let’s be honest Josh is the best player in the franchises history 

 

[Old Coot]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Now Jack Kemp, there’s a haircut you could set your watch to