My all-time greatest Bills quarterback is not Josh Allen or Jim Kelly

[Gregg]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Hey I love Jack but let’s be honest Josh is the best player in the franchises history 

 

 

Best in franchise history? What about 78 and 32.

[78thealltimegreat]

40 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Best in franchise history? What about 78 and 32.

They aren’t Allen 

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, Another Fan said:

I liked the OPs post.  
 

I didn’t read it that Allen was better than Kemp just Kemp was the OPs favorite qb 

He said "all-time-greatest," not favorite. My favorite Bills QB is Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

[corta765]

11 hours ago, zow2 said:

Jack Kemp was the man back in the day. 

 

QB’s are part of the puzzle, a big part. But defense still has a big hand in Championships.

 

Which QB tandem would y’all rather have in your teams history?

 

Steelers:  Bradshaw / Big Ben

Bills:  Kelly / Allen

 

I’d rather have our guys, not even close.  But those Steelers QBs have all the hardware 

 

If I were to rank them adjusting for era as the game was different literally for each QB comparatively I would go as followed:

 

1. Bradshaw

2. Kelly

3. Allen 

4. Big Ben

 

The game is in a whole different world now compared to the 1970s. In the 1970s the top 3 QBs were Staubach, Bradshaw, & Tarkenton. Bradshaw has the hardware, was a top 3 guy, has an MVP, was all decade, 2 SB MVPs etc.. he carries the weight across the board both talent for the time and accomplishments. I understand todays generation does not understand how drastically the game has changed, but era wise Bradshaw was a GOAT the way Josh is with Lamar & Mahomes except Bradshaw has all the hardware too.

 

After that Kelly doesn't have a ring but he has everything else and for his time was again with in that Top 3 group. Additionally at retirement only Fran Tarkenton, Dan Fouts, and Johnny Unitas among Hall of Fame quarterbacks had passed for more yardage, and only Tarkenton, and Fouts had completed more passes. His impact on the game with the K Gun was revolutionary for its time. And to Kellys defense he led the team down for GW FG in SB25, he did his part even if he had a good not great game.

 

Allen is clearly top 3 in the league and him & Lamar flip flop daily it feels for being #2 after Mahomes. Things get tricky because he has no hardware and no SB appearances at this point. But Big Ben for as good as he was never got an All Pro (either 1st or 2nd), no SB MVP although he was good in their 2nd SB win, and during his time of play he was never in Brady or Peytons class. There was a legitimate argument that he was the worst of the big 3 in the draft of 2004 and got drafted to the best situation compared to Rivers or Eli which only helped inflate his accomplishments. Big Ben is going to the HOF in a few years, but to me he is in the really really good crop of players not era defining. Allen is going to finish era defining regardless of hardware which is why I can get him to 3. If Allen wants to crack the top 2 he needs some hardware though at this point.

[John Gianelli]

5 hours ago, SoMAn said:

It was the inferior league in ‘64 and ’65, proven by the lopsided Packers’ wins in the ‘Championship’ games. The AFL had to compete against the established NFL for the best college players in 2 separate drafts.

There were only 7 other teams in the AFL. In 10 years of the AFL’s existence, the odds were fairly decent that any particular team could win at least one league championship. Even the Buffalo Sabres could have won a championship in an 8-team league.

Kemp wasn’t even the best QB on the team. They stupidly traded Lamonica to the Raiders for Tom Flores and Art Powell.  
 

Kemp was a true leader, but his skill level didn’t compare to JA17, who has been described as one of the most athletic quarterbacks of all time. 

Rating Kemp over Kelly or Allen is laughable. Guessing that geriatric myopia is setting in as you approach your 70s. It happens. Godspeed on your journey. 

I hope you've had the experience of having the team you root for win the last game of their season. I have. It's better than saying your QB had great talent, or great stats.

[John Gianelli]

11 hours ago, Low Positive said:

He won the USFL twice.

Good point, but were any of those USFL teams merged into the NFL?

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

He helped with the 8 team league so he is your favorite?   The number of teams makes it like winning the divisional round.  
 

Kelly did not rack up stats compared to Allen.  Kemp is the reason the team was motivated? 

I haven't enjoyed such a good back-and-forth since debate club in 8th grade. Should I ask who the greatest Bills coach of all time is? You can guess my answer, Lou Saban. I don't think I'd get as much pushback on that.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 hours ago, John Gianelli said:

It's Jack Kemp. The frustration of the four Super Bowl losses and our inability to get back to the Super Bowl under Josh Allen have convinced me that the real sign of greatness is motivating your team to win the biggest game. Kemp led the Bills to two league championships in 1964 and 1965. He wasn't as gifted an athlete as Allen, and didn't rack up the stats like Kelly. But he knew how to motivate his team to win when it counted most. I watched the '65 game when I was 8 years old. I wish every Bills fan could know what it feels like to win it all.

While I disagree that he’s the best, he definitely should be in the discussion. His downfall was winning championships before the merger. 

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

Best in franchise history? What about 78 and 32.

Bruce Smith to me is still the greatest Bills of all time. His dominance over the span of time he played is unmatched. He’s played in multiple eras and put up elite production in each one. 200 sacks will never be broken. Ever 

[T master]

12 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Jack Kemp never had a completion percentage over 46% in Buffalo. In the 1964 AFL championship season, he had 44%, 13Tds and 26 INTs.

 

I would imagine that Kemp had a stout defense that made up for his short comings which is a huge help after all it is a team sport & when just 1 side of the ball is going above and beyond to do their job and the other side has a weak spot it doesn't help in the over all result . You can float for a while like that but it will eventually come back to bight you . 

[Jimmy Harris 69]

4 hours ago, Another Fan said:

I liked the OPs post.  
 

I didn’t read it that Allen was better than Kemp just Kemp was the OPs favorite qb 

This is the right way to see things. Each successful Bills QB had something the others did not. Actually, Kemp and Allen were very similar. Both run effectively, great arm strength. One has to give the nod to Josh as the better passer. My old man always said Saban brought in Lamonica to bail out Kemp. I don’t know if that tied into his dislike of Republicans or if it happened often enough that he felt it was true. Hindsight surely says that the Bills shouldn’t have traded away Lamonica. Wilson owning a piece of the Raiders blurs the conspiracy lines just right for us chapped ass bills fans. Kemp had the best defense in the AFL. No other Bills QB has had the luxury of a top defense except Doug Flutie\Rob Johnson. Josh Allen in my view is the greatest Bills player period—-in my fandom since 1969.

Edited yesterday at 04:28 PM by Jimmy Harris 69

[US Egg]

8 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

Remember the losmanites lol... 

They still wandering in the desert?

[JP51]

I am not disparaging this post.... but I can only imagine what Josh Allen would have done to defenses back in the Mid 60s...  when the average DL probably was Josh Allens size lol... and the average WR and RB probably ran about as fast as Josh does...  I can imagine a lot of broken fingers on WR and DBs lol.... 

[Sestak4ever]

It was our defense that won those championships. Sestak, McDole, Saimes, Byrd, Stratton, Tracy, Jacobs, Edgerson, etc. They shut down the vaunted Chargers offense.

[BuffaloBillyG]

14 hours ago, John Gianelli said:

It's Jack Kemp. The frustration of the four Super Bowl losses and our inability to get back to the Super Bowl under Josh Allen have convinced me that the real sign of greatness is motivating your team to win the biggest game. Kemp led the Bills to two league championships in 1964 and 1965. He wasn't as gifted an athlete as Allen, and didn't rack up the stats like Kelly. But he knew how to motivate his team to win when it counted most. I watched the '65 game when I was 8 years old. I wish every Bills fan could know what it feels like to win it all.

Here here!

 

And in a related thought, Jeff Hostleter, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles...all better QBs than Dan Marino and Warren Moon.

[Big Turk]

Kick rocks with this nonsense

[Chandler#81]

14 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Jack Kemp never had a completion percentage over 46% in Buffalo. In the 1964 AFL championship season, he had 44%, 13Tds and 26 INTs.

You’re showing your age, Whippersnapper 

[Gregg]

Jack Kemp isn't the greatest QB in Bills history as both Allen and Kelly are/were better. Kemp WAS the most successful QB in Bills history as the back-to-back AFL championships prove. There are only 4 QBs in Bills history worth mentioning. Kemp, Ferguson, Kelly, Allen. The rest including Flutie and Bledsoe aren't worth mentioning.

 

 

[Mark80]

14 hours ago, John Gianelli said:

It's Jack Kemp. The frustration of the four Super Bowl losses and our inability to get back to the Super Bowl under Josh Allen have convinced me that the real sign of greatness is motivating your team to win the biggest game. Kemp led the Bills to two league championships in 1964 and 1965. He wasn't as gifted an athlete as Allen, and didn't rack up the stats like Kelly. But he knew how to motivate his team to win when it counted most. I watched the '65 game when I was 8 years old. I wish every Bills fan could know what it feels like to win it all.

Must have been really tough to win an 8 team league that had worse talent than the NFL.  GTFO here with this crap.

[Einstein]

Kemp wouldn’t make it out of the wild card round in todays game.

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

14 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Jack Kemp never had a completion percentage over 46% in Buffalo. In the 1964 AFL championship season, he had 44%, 13Tds and 26 INTs.

Back in the day, you got more points for interceptions in Fantasy Football.

 

[SoMAn]

2 hours ago, John Gianelli said:

I hope you've had the experience of having the team you root for win the last game of their season. I have. It's better than saying your QB had great talent, or great stats.

Are you referencing the ‘65 AFL Bills? 😅Dementia too! What a wonderful world to live in.  
Yeah, Jack Kemp with his sub-50% completion was an all time great. It’s a travesty that he’s not in the HOF. 🙄