Allen PC and state of the Bills

[Pete]

50 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

If Allen was pushing for Coleman, why did we trade down....twice? 

 

The only reasonable explanation is that Beane felt Worthy/Pearsall/Legette/Coleman/McConkey were interchangeable, and didn't care which one we ended up with. 

Or Coleman was their guy.  And they knew they had Keon rated higher than other teams 

[zow2]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ha. I am not a massive fan of comps. But no I don't think he is a Mike Evans type. The guy he reminds me of more with ball in hand is actually someone like Deebo Samuel. His all round game isn't Deebo, just to be clear. But that toughness to bring down in the open field with the ball in hand he does. 

 

There are not a ton of guys he can be comped to.

 

Yeah, that's the thing i don't know what he can be.  I guess we will see... but jeez right now Tyrell Shavers probably gives you more production than Keon if he was given the same opportunities.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 hour ago, london_bills said:

Well Allen did want Coleman. This offense needs speed. This comment might be surprising but I wouldn't be totally shocked at a Tyreek Hill trade if Allen was on board. I guess I don't see it as a locker room fit as such though it's true

 

I would like tyreek here even though hes a whinny punk.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:45 PM by Buffalo Barbarian

[Captain_Quint]

1 hour ago, london_bills said:

Well Allen did want Coleman. This offense needs speed. This comment might be surprising but I wouldn't be totally shocked at a Tyreek Hill trade if Allen was on board. I guess I don't see it as a locker room fit as such though it's true

It's funny, as I watched the Bills lose again to KC, a trade for Hill went through my head. Not only is he a great WR and a huge threat, it's a shot at KC since he had so much success there. 

Doubtful it happens, since Miami is involved, but his skill would transform our offense. 

 

IMO, and this is more of a pipedream, you leave the offense and Brady to grow together this year. But McD gives up the defense, you bring in a real DCoordinator who has recent success, and rebuild the defense. They've given it 8 years and the D has been solid, but once the ceiling is reached in the playoffs, they fold. 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

To make matters worse, Coleman didn’t even look the part of excelling at contested catches.   

 

The TD against the Seahawks says hi....

[Coach Tuesday]

Humanity: the Series Finale.

[Einstein]

That’s what you got out of that press conference?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

It's funny, as I watched the Bills lose again to KC, a trade for Hill went through my head. Not only is he a great WR and a huge threat, it's a shot at KC since he had so much success there. 

Doubtful it happens, since Miami is involved, but his skill would transform our offense. 

 

IMO, and this is more of a pipedream, you leave the offense and Brady to grow together this year. But McD gives up the defense, you bring in a real DCoordinator who has recent success, and rebuild the defense. They've given it 8 years and the D has been solid, but once the ceiling is reached in the playoffs, they fold. 

 

McDermott did give up the defense, and our defense was better last year when McDermott was the DC. Babich did a solid job but needs better players and more time to grow.

 

 

[Goin Breakdown]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

If Coleman was really Josh's pick then Josh is fired.  Worthy or McConkey look better in their rookie seasons and seem more versatile as WR threats.  With QB's so hyper focused on turnover margins nowadays, the 50/50 ball is becoming a risk some QBs aren't taking as much.

I think Josh said what he needed to for Coleman to feel welcome. Perhaps he also said it because he knew they weren't in the position to get one of the top guys. But no one is going to convince me that Coleman was his top pick. 

9 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The TD against the Seahawks says hi....

I really think he stole that one from Ty Johnson. Great catch but it wasn't to Coleman. at least that's what it looked like to me.

[GoFlamesGo]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

That’s what you got out of that press conference?

To be fair, he said VERY little in that PC of substance. He’s always appropriately careful about how he answers questions.

 

His response on confidence in McDermott was not typical for an employee-boss or player-coach type response. He even prefaced it with something like, “I know this might sound a little odd but..”

 

Yeah I read into that, it was really the only thing of substance. It made clear that McD is now really at most his partner, not necessarily his mentor. Brady never really spoke of Belichick that way. 
 

I get that times have changed too, and that Mahomes and Reid do goofy commercials together and players now make so much that it’s impossible to not see that they may have ultimately control. The issue here that’s a little unique is that McD’s defense hasn’t really helped Allen in most if not all of his playoff losses, and it still seems for some reason that Allen ‘allows’ for McD to continue to run his defense. Again I think that’s the issue that Diggs had (that Allen would lobby to keep McD despite his failures), and why I think we’re ultimately stuck with McD. The ultimate control here lies obviously with Pegula, and he is (very reasonably) deferring it to Allen.

 

Final takeaway: it will take a lot for the Bills to fire McDermott.

[BillMafia716ix]

I’m not reading all that. The state of Bills is very simple. We will always have a chance with 17 at QB. Just have to put the pieces around him

[Chandler#81]

I don’t buy this.

As for Tim G, we lost Lori over him but him disappearing kind of evens it out. I think he’s trash.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, zow2 said:

If Coleman was really Josh's pick then Josh is fired.  Worthy or McConkey look better in their rookie seasons and seem more versatile as WR threats.  With QB's so hyper focused on turnover margins nowadays, the 50/50 ball is becoming a risk some QBs aren't taking as much.

Yeah, if Josh had even 10% influence in obtaining Kincaid & Coleman then we're in big trouble. Beane is screwing things up enough on the defensive side.  He doesn't need help screwing up the offense.   Josh should've established some chemistry with Kincaid by now.  Coleman during his rookie season had all the flaws we were afraid of.  I'm all for Josh having some level of input, but only to a point.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

IF you're right I do think they need to trust their scouting ahead of Josh now. Kincaid and Coleman are looking like busts - being a franchise, possible HoF, QB does not necessarily mean he's someone who can make personnel decisions. Though, in fairness, I doubt whether Josh would make any calls on defense and that's where the Bills issues really lie. 

 

IF he's right?  Do you actually believe a word in that passive aggressive hit piece on Allen?

 

 

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Yeah, if Josh had even 10% influence in obtaining Kincaid & Coleman then we're in big trouble. Beane is screwing things up enough on the defensive side.  He doesn't need help screwing up the offense.   Josh should've established some chemistry with Kincaid by now.  Coleman during his rookie season had all the flaws we were afraid of.  I'm all for Josh having some level of input, but only to a point.

The jury is still out on both Coleman & Kincaid.  A lot of very knowledgeable football folks thought both picks were great. 

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, CincyBillsFan said:

IF he's right?  Do you actually believe a word in that passive aggressive hit piece on Allen?

 

 

 

Not really. Though it did come out that Josh said he wanted Coleman; found a link to CBS. Saying that, it didn't specify when he felt the Bills should draft him. Nor did it say whether the Bills gave him two or three names and asked him to pick from them. Future drafts have to be on scouting above all else now. There's a reason why the lower round picks have more impact than higher, and that's because he Bills are picking more on scouting reports than the front office have vested interest and entrenched opinions.

[LabattBlue]

29 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

The TD against the Seahawks says hi....

If someone put together a video of all throws to Coleman this season, you would see way more throws of the “he is our contested catch guy?” vs “wow what a great contested catch!”  

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, GoFlamesGo said:

I watched Josh Allen’s presser yesterday and it firmed up some of what I thought before: he is now 100% the boss of football operations for this franchise. McDermott coaches at his will and probably has even adjusted his personal approach in part to work well with Allen. Firing Dorsey, drafting Keon… all those things don’t happen without Allen’s OK (and perhaps even his pushing). He’s very loyal but maybe also a little comfortable in that role, and in his day-to-day. There is a fine line between being loyal and comfortable though… it is a potential path into Rodgers or Peyton territory. From the Bills end, I do absolutely get it, he is the franchise. You need to do whatever it takes to keep him happy, particularly while he’s still this good. I think ‘management’ gets it.

 

This also 100% explains the Diggs situation. I thought this before and when I saw Allen’s year end presser last year, I predicted Diggs was done. Diggs was not unhappy because he wasn’t getting the ball… he was unhappy because he wanted to win, and he disagreed that having the QB ‘run’ the organization was the best way to win. He’s a fairly smart and thoughtful guy, and also super competitive. I don’t think he hated Allen, I just don’t think he liked where this was going. They all handled the situation I think as well as they could, but Diggs had a fundamental problem with how the Bills operated, and he wasn’t going to get through to Allen on what he thought the Bills should do, so he was out. I’d guess he was among those who was not happy with McDermott’s abilities as a coach.

 

I’m not saying Allen runs the defense or makes all the signings or anything like that, I’m just saying he’s extremely powerful now in the organization. Like, he’s the most powerful QB right now in any organization (more powerful than his closest peers: Mahomes, Burrow or Lamar). What that will mean in the long term I don’t know… it may keep them from ever winning a Super Bowl with him (in fact if they don’t I would argue it was the biggest reason why they didn’t, I would agree with Diggs). But right now, I do think it’s hard to argue against the Bills’ approach, because what choice do the Bills have? This approach hopefully keeps Allen from being disgruntled, and it keeps the head coach in a job.

 

I don’t think Allen is outwardly power-hungry or anything like that, in fact, I don’t think this necessarily comes from a bad place beyond him not wanting to disrupt a life he currently enjoys. He wants to be the consummate leader, and often will shoulder too much of the load. In fact, my gut is he was satisfied with the defensive performance against Kansas City, and feels like he probably should have scored at the end of the game to win the game (I wouldn’t agree with him… the defense was bad). My hope is given that McDermott has been able to swallow his pride to this degree at this point, he may even be willing to significantly alter his defensive philosophy and priorities in player acquisition to better suit what the team needs when they play top level competition in the playoffs. I think that’s the Bills’ best chance going forward.

I've seen some pretty wild anti-Allen takes on 2BD but this one is the weirdest and wildest one yet.  What proof do you have for any of the stuff you just vomited out here?  This is a fake psycho babble analysis of Allen that defies basic logic and common sense. This rambling rant could be used as the poster child for a passive aggressive attack on another person. 

 

This best sums up this post:

 

"what you've just wrote is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul"

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Not really. Though it did come out that Josh said he wanted Coleman; found a link to CBS. Saying that, it didn't specify when he felt the Bills should draft him. Nor did it say whether the Bills gave him two or three names and asked him to pick from them. Future drafts have to be on scouting above all else now. There's a reason why the lower round picks have more impact than higher, and that's because he Bills are picking more on scouting reports than the front office have vested interest and entrenched opinions.

Rather then Allen running the Bills organization and telling Bean who to draft in the 1st & 2nd rounds his Coleman comment sounds like someone trying to make the new guy feel good about joining the Bills.  Especially as there was some negative stuff being said about the Coleman pick.

 

Past, Present and Future drafts have ALL been about the scouting department and not about Allen running the draft. 

 

 

 

[GoFlamesGo]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I've seen some pretty wild anti-Allen takes on 2BD but this one is the weirdest and wildest one yet.  What proof do you have for any of the stuff you just vomited out here?  This is a fake psycho babble analysis of Allen that defies basic logic and common sense. This rambling rant could be used as the poster child for a passive aggressive attack on another person. 

 

This best sums up this post:

 

"what you've just wrote is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul"

Figured I’d get some fan-boy type responses. I’m definitely not alone in some of these views on the current state of the Bills… and it’s OK to point out any issues ongoing with the team even if it involves the best player in franchise history (I wasn’t around for OJ but I was for Bruce). Again the main point is we are ‘stuck’ with McD so long as he is Allen’s guy, and maybe if you think McD is a good defensive coach, that doesn’t bother you at all. It’s not a crazy take, just not one I personally agree with.

 

Believe what you want, but I am VERY confident Diggs wanted out for reasons other than getting the ball.

[The Jokeman]

28 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

I’m not reading all that. The state of Bills is very simple. We will always have a chance with 17 at QB. Just have to put the pieces around him

Same with most QBs. I can't think of one QB that didn't have help and win a ring. At this point Allen reminds me of Steve Young and the monkey on his back.