Allen PC and state of the Bills

[GoFlamesGo]

I watched Josh Allen’s presser yesterday and it firmed up some of what I thought before: he is now 100% the boss of football operations for this franchise. McDermott coaches at his will and probably has even adjusted his personal approach in part to work well with Allen. Firing Dorsey, drafting Keon… all those things don’t happen without Allen’s OK (and perhaps even his pushing). He’s very loyal but maybe also a little comfortable in that role, and in his day-to-day. There is a fine line between being loyal and comfortable though… it is a potential path into Rodgers or Peyton territory. From the Bills end, I do absolutely get it, he is the franchise. You need to do whatever it takes to keep him happy, particularly while he’s still this good. I think ‘management’ gets it.

 

This also 100% explains the Diggs situation. I thought this before and when I saw Allen’s year end presser last year, I predicted Diggs was done. Diggs was not unhappy because he wasn’t getting the ball… he was unhappy because he wanted to win, and he disagreed that having the QB ‘run’ the organization was the best way to win. He’s a fairly smart and thoughtful guy, and also super competitive. I don’t think he hated Allen, I just don’t think he liked where this was going. They all handled the situation I think as well as they could, but Diggs had a fundamental problem with how the Bills operated, and he wasn’t going to get through to Allen on what he thought the Bills should do, so he was out. I’d guess he was among those who was not happy with McDermott’s abilities as a coach.

 

I’m not saying Allen runs the defense or makes all the signings or anything like that, I’m just saying he’s extremely powerful now in the organization. Like, he’s the most powerful QB right now in any organization (more powerful than his closest peers: Mahomes, Burrow or Lamar). What that will mean in the long term I don’t know… it may keep them from ever winning a Super Bowl with him (in fact if they don’t I would argue it was the biggest reason why they didn’t, I would agree with Diggs). But right now, I do think it’s hard to argue against the Bills’ approach, because what choice do the Bills have? This approach hopefully keeps Allen from being disgruntled, and it keeps the head coach in a job.

 

I don’t think Allen is outwardly power-hungry or anything like that, in fact, I don’t think this necessarily comes from a bad place beyond him not wanting to disrupt a life he currently enjoys. He wants to be the consummate leader, and often will shoulder too much of the load. In fact, my gut is he was satisfied with the defensive performance against Kansas City, and feels like he probably should have scored at the end of the game to win the game (I wouldn’t agree with him… the defense was bad). My hope is given that McDermott has been able to swallow his pride to this degree at this point, he may even be willing to significantly alter his defensive philosophy and priorities in player acquisition to better suit what the team needs when they play top level competition in the playoffs. I think that’s the Bills’ best chance going forward.

[UKBillFan]

IF you're right I do think they need to trust their scouting ahead of Josh now. Kincaid and Coleman are looking like busts - being a franchise, possible HoF, QB does not necessarily mean he's someone who can make personnel decisions. Though, in fairness, I doubt whether Josh would make any calls on defense and that's where the Bills issues really lie. 

 

I do believe Josh is the only one keeping McDermott in place right now. If he went to Pegula and said "fire or I'll ask for a trade" then he'd be gone. But that's the same with most franchise QBs. Taylor, for example, is still in place due to Burrow. 

[JohnNord]

13 minutes ago, GoFlamesGo said:

I watched Josh Allen’s presser yesterday and it firmed up some of what I thought before: he is now 100% the boss of football operations for this franchise. McDermott coaches at his will and probably has even adjusted his personal approach in part to work well with Allen. Firing Dorsey, drafting Keon… all those things don’t happen without Allen’s OK (and perhaps even his pushing). He’s very loyal but maybe also a little comfortable in that role, and in his day-to-day. There is a fine line between being loyal and comfortable though… it is a potential path into Rodgers or Peyton territory. From the Bills end, I do absolutely get it, he is the franchise. You need to do whatever it takes to keep him happy, particularly while he’s still this good. I think ‘management’ gets it.

 

This also 100% explains the Diggs situation. I thought this before and when I saw Allen’s year end presser last year, I predicted Diggs was done. Diggs was not unhappy because he wasn’t getting the ball… he was unhappy because he wanted to win, and he disagreed that having the QB ‘run’ the organization was the best way to win. He’s a fairly smart and thoughtful guy, and also super competitive. I don’t think he hated Allen, I just don’t think he liked where this was going. They all handled the situation I think as well as they could, but Diggs had a fundamental problem with how the Bills operated, and he wasn’t going to get through to Allen on what he thought the Bills should do, so he was out. I’d guess he was among those who was not happy with McDermott’s abilities as a coach.

 

I’m not saying Allen runs the defense or makes all the signings or anything like that, I’m just saying he’s extremely powerful now in the organization. Like, he’s the most powerful QB right now in any organization (more powerful than his closest peers: Mahomes, Burrow or Lamar). What that will mean in the long term I don’t know… it may keep them from ever winning a Super Bowl with him (in fact if they don’t I would argue it was the biggest reason why they didn’t, I would agree with Diggs). But right now, I do think it’s hard to argue against the Bills’ approach, because what choice do the Bills have? This approach hopefully keeps Allen from being disgruntled, and it keeps the head coach in a job.

 

I don’t think Allen is outwardly power-hungry or anything like that, in fact, I don’t think this necessarily comes from a bad place beyond him not wanting to disrupt a life he currently enjoys. He wants to be the consummate leader, and often will shoulder too much of the load. In fact, my gut is he was satisfied with the defensive performance against Kansas City, and feels like he probably should have scored at the end of the game to win the game (I wouldn’t agree with him… the defense was bad). My hope is given that McDermott has been able to swallow his pride to this degree at this point, he may even be willing to significantly alter his defensive philosophy and priorities in player acquisition to better suit what the team needs when they play top level competition in the playoffs. I think that’s the Bills’ best chance going forward.

This is a lot of speculation from a press conference.   You make it sound like Josh Allen is a nicer version of Aaron Rodgers.  
 

If you read the Tim Graham’s reporting last season, the concern with Allen was that he was too nice and wanted to be one of the guys.  Rather than being vocal like Diggs, he’d often be hesitant.  Terry, Beane and McDermott all wanted him to be more vocal and think of himself as a “partner.”  This completely contradicts what you said.  

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is a lot of speculation from a press conference.   You make it sound like Josh Allen is a nicer version of Aaron Rodgers.  
 

If you read the Tim Graham’s reporting last season, the concern with Allen was that he was too nice and wanted to be one of the guys.  Rather than being vocal like Diggs, he’d often be hesitant.  Terry, Beane and McDermott all wanted him to be more vocal and think of himself as a “partner.”  This completely contradicts what you said.  

 

 

 

I agree, let’s not read much into a press conference that follows a tough loss.  Josh was better this year and if he does what he has done in other off seasons, he will be better next year.  

[london_bills]

25 minutes ago, GoFlamesGo said:

I watched Josh Allen’s presser yesterday and it firmed up some of what I thought before: he is now 100% the boss of football operations for this franchise. McDermott coaches at his will and probably has even adjusted his personal approach in part to work well with Allen. Firing Dorsey, drafting Keon… all those things don’t happen without Allen’s OK (and perhaps even his pushing). He’s very loyal but maybe also a little comfortable in that role, and in his day-to-day. There is a fine line between being loyal and comfortable though… it is a potential path into Rodgers or Peyton territory. From the Bills end, I do absolutely get it, he is the franchise. You need to do whatever it takes to keep him happy, particularly while he’s still this good. I think ‘management’ gets it.

 

This also 100% explains the Diggs situation. I thought this before and when I saw Allen’s year end presser last year, I predicted Diggs was done. Diggs was not unhappy because he wasn’t getting the ball… he was unhappy because he wanted to win, and he disagreed that having the QB ‘run’ the organization was the best way to win. He’s a fairly smart and thoughtful guy, and also super competitive. I don’t think he hated Allen, I just don’t think he liked where this was going. They all handled the situation I think as well as they could, but Diggs had a fundamental problem with how the Bills operated, and he wasn’t going to get through to Allen on what he thought the Bills should do, so he was out. I’d guess he was among those who was not happy with McDermott’s abilities as a coach.

 

I’m not saying Allen runs the defense or makes all the signings or anything like that, I’m just saying he’s extremely powerful now in the organization. Like, he’s the most powerful QB right now in any organization (more powerful than his closest peers: Mahomes, Burrow or Lamar). What that will mean in the long term I don’t know… it may keep them from ever winning a Super Bowl with him (in fact if they don’t I would argue it was the biggest reason why they didn’t, I would agree with Diggs). But right now, I do think it’s hard to argue against the Bills’ approach, because what choice do the Bills have? This approach hopefully keeps Allen from being disgruntled, and it keeps the head coach in a job.

 

I don’t think Allen is outwardly power-hungry or anything like that, in fact, I don’t think this necessarily comes from a bad place beyond him not wanting to disrupt a life he currently enjoys. He wants to be the consummate leader, and often will shoulder too much of the load. In fact, my gut is he was satisfied with the defensive performance against Kansas City, and feels like he probably should have scored at the end of the game to win the game (I wouldn’t agree with him… the defense was bad). My hope is given that McDermott has been able to swallow his pride to this degree at this point, he may even be willing to significantly alter his defensive philosophy and priorities in player acquisition to better suit what the team needs when they play top level competition in the playoffs. I think that’s the Bills’ best chance going forward.

Well Allen did want Coleman. This offense needs speed. This comment might be surprising but I wouldn't be totally shocked at a Tyreek Hill trade if Allen was on board. I guess I don't see it as a locker room fit as such though it's true

[zow2]

If Coleman was really Josh's pick then Josh is fired.  Worthy or McConkey look better in their rookie seasons and seem more versatile as WR threats.  With QB's so hyper focused on turnover margins nowadays, the 50/50 ball is becoming a risk some QBs aren't taking as much.

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

If Coleman was really Josh's pick then Josh is fired.  Worthy or McConkey look better in their rookie seasons and seem more versatile as WR threats.  With QB's so hyper focused on turnover margins nowadays, the 50/50 ball is becoming a risk some QBs aren't taking as much.

To make matters worse, Coleman didn’t even look the part of excelling at contested catches.   

[uticaclub]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is a lot of speculation from a press conference.   You make it sound like Josh Allen is a nicer version of Aaron Rodgers.  
 

If you read the Tim Graham’s reporting last season, the concern with Allen was that he was too nice and wanted to be one of the guys.  Rather than being vocal like Diggs, he’d often be hesitant.  Terry, Beane and McDermott all wanted him to be more vocal and think of himself as a “partner.”  This completely contradicts what you said.  

 

 

Tim Graham lost is pulse on the team years ago. He was the one that reported Terry was selling everything but the Bills, when a minority ownership of the Bills is the only thing he sold

[colin]

We only have slot guys.

 

Shakir, Coleman, Samuel, and Kincaid are just slot wrs.  Hollins is our only outside guy, and he plays tight end on a bunch of snaps.

 

A real outside talent would have put this team over the top, and I say that as a certified mccorch hater.

 

I don't know who's available, Higgins, Metcalf, etc, but we need talent there.

 

If we have any relationship left w the nyg, I'd consider a trade w them for bucoup picks for Malik.

 

Run with cook, block w our line, and have Allen pace bombs to a real number 1.  It doesn't have to be 120 catches 2k yards, but we need a threat

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

To make matters worse, Coleman didn’t even look the part of excelling at contested catches.   

 

He was not a great contested catch guy in college. I did try and tell people this. He was okay at it but he was not dominant in contested catch situations.

 

His strength is as a runner after the catch. I know you don't think that to look at him but I watched hours of Keon tape last January and February. He is a big slot, catch and run guy.

[tigerthelion]

If Diggs truly wanted to win, he should have shown up in the playoffs instead of his usual disappearing act.  

 

If what you say is true, does that mean that these are the receiving weapons Josh wanted?  You think he wanted to throw to covered receivers with questionable hands and no speed?  If Josh Allen had that much control, you don't think he would have wanted a bit better than Mack Hollins, Keon Coleman, and Amari Cooper?   

[beebe]

30 minutes ago, GoFlamesGo said:

I’m not saying Allen runs the defense or makes all the signings or anything like that, I’m just saying he’s extremely powerful now in the organization. Like, he’s the most powerful QB right now in any organization (more powerful than his closest peers: Mahomes, Burrow or Lamar).

 

It's been reported that Mahomes has had influence on the Chiefs' last two wide receiver picks, and before that, he wanted Clyde Edwards-Helaire (he was fine, but never seemed the same after that nasty injury he had vs the Saints). 

 

Rashee Rice:

 

Analyst Adam Lefkoe revealed that Mahomes had been texting him, stating that he had thrown passes to Rice during their sessions in Dallas. Mahomes then shared that he has input on all offensive guys and played a role in the Chiefs selecting Rice. 

 

Xavier Worthy: 

 

As this year's NFL draft approached, general manager Brett Veach met with quarterback Patrick Mahomes to discuss some of the players the Kansas City Chiefs were considering with their first-round pick.

 

Veach and the Chiefs didn't plan to defer on the choice to Mahomes but were certainly interested in his opinions. Mahomes walked into the meeting having studied enough video on wide receivers that Veach called him a "tape-a-holic.''

 

The two-time NFL MVP had broken down film on Georgia's Ladd McConkey and Florida State's Keon Coleman -- but he had a different favorite. The one with the slight build from the University of Texas who had recently run the 40-yard dash in 4.21 seconds, a record for the scouting combine.

 

Mahomes liked the speed of this receiver, Xavier Worthy, and sent Veach a fire emoji after news of Worthy's 40 at the combine. But he saw a complete player who could do more than run fast.

 

"Pat doesn't just come in and say, 'Let's draft a wideout,'" Veach said. "Well, there's a lot of wideouts. But Pat has a vision like a coach has a vision. He'll pull out plays from a game like he's seen it all. He's done the work. It's not just TV scouting but actual film work.

 

"Of the guys we were talking about, Worthy was the guy he really liked. He doesn't rank guys. He just tells you what he thinks. But you could tell that he was most excited about Worthy.''

[Buffalo03]

Where do some people get these ideas from?

 

You know when I listened to it. I think he confirmed what I always thought, he wants to run for president someday. 

 

Like seriously?

 

 

[GoFlamesGo]

3 minutes ago, tigerthelion said:

If Diggs truly wanted to win, he should have shown up in the playoffs instead of his usual disappearing act.  

 

If what you say is true, does that mean that these are the receiving weapons Josh wanted?  You think he wanted to throw to covered receivers with questionable hands and no speed?  If Josh Allen had that much control, you don't think he would have wanted a bit better than Mack Hollins, Keon Coleman, and Amari Cooper?   

 

To be clear, I would absolutely not compare Allen’s personality to Peyton or Rodgers (whom I don’t like) or even Kelly or Burrow or anyone else… I think he’s his own unique person and his heart is generally in the right place. I am more comparing control in an organization and willingness to exert it.

 

I do think the ‘everyone eats’ mantra was something that was very Allen-driven, and that he may have gotten kind of sick of feeling any sort of pressure from his receivers (even if like I said the pressure from Diggs was more to play winning ball than to actually pass it to him). Diggs did a lot during his last couple years I did not agree with, I wouldn’t blame Allen at all for feeling like it was too distracting for him or the team.

 

Someone mentioned that Taylor is only safe in Cincy because of Burrow and perhaps that is true as well, that would be the closest comp I suppose. I just think it would take something really significant for Allen to turn on McD (due to both loyalty and comfort) and in that way, we kind of have to embrace McD even if he is a pretty bad defensive coach, because no one in the organization really has the authority to fire him (because of Allen).

 

That was more my point (and I believe Diggs’ stance), and I personally am over McDermott, but I’m just hoping he changes or perhaps delegates more on defense so we may actually have a chance against other top teams that isn’t dependent on 3-4 lucky turnovers.

7 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Where do some people get these ideas from?

 

You know when I listened to it. I think he confirmed what I always thought, he wants to run for president someday. 

 

Like seriously?

 

 

Meh, these are public figures and it’s all here for entertainment. Even when they are trying to not say anything much they often still let on where they stand. It’s fun to read into, and it also bears relevance on how the team may approach its offseason and future, something being discussed extensively on other threads.

 

Would you rather be dissecting the KC/Philly matchup right now?

[zow2]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He was not a great contested catch guy in college. I did try and tell people this. He was okay at it but he was not dominant in contested catch situations.

 

His strength is as a runner after the catch. I know you don't think that to look at him but I watched hours of Keon tape last January and February. He is a big slot, catch and run guy.

 

Since you watched hours of tape,  who is the Keon Coleman comp in the NFL right now?   Someone who has been really successful and a household name.  I was thinking when he came out maybe a Mike Evans type, but I'm not seeing any of that.

[JohnNord]

21 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Tim Graham lost is pulse on the team years ago. He was the one that reported Terry was selling everything but the Bills, when a minority ownership of the Bills is the only thing he sold

Doesn’t really mean he’s lost the pulse.  He tends to be right a lot of the time.  Plus I would trust his reporting over a Bills fan connecting dots based on press conference comments 

Edited Tuesday at 07:41 PM by JohnNord

[Pete]

Josh was so emotional, it’s sad to see. My heart breaks watching Josh sad.  It was heart wrenching.  That’s my takeaway 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

If Allen was pushing for Coleman, why did we trade down....twice? 

 

The only reasonable explanation is that Beane felt Worthy/Pearsall/Legette/Coleman/McConkey were interchangeable, and didn't care which one we ended up with. 

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Doesn’t really mean he’s lost the pulse.  He tends to be right a lot of the time.  Plus I would trust his reporting over a Bills fan connecting dots based on press conference comments 

I used to really like Tim's work and he was one of the reasons I subscribed to The Athletic. However, now his content feels like well-written speculation that I can find on this board or hear from someone at the bar..

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

Since you watched hours of tape,  who is the Keon Coleman comp in the NFL right now?   Someone who has been really successful and a household name.  I was thinking when he came out maybe a Mike Evans type, but I'm not seeing any of that.

 

Ha. I am not a massive fan of comps. But no I don't think he is a Mike Evans type. The guy he reminds me of more with ball in hand is actually someone like Deebo Samuel. His all round game isn't Deebo, just to be clear. But that toughness to bring down in the open field with the ball in hand he does. 

 

There are not a ton of guys he can be comped to.