Day #8 after the loss to KC: Feeling better? Worse? Why? (Thread started at Day #2)

[finn]

No way I'm watching the Fraud Bowl with the incessant glazing of Mahomes. Makes me physically ill to hear that garbage. 

 

But first signs of recovery: I'm just beginning to think about the draft. I hope Beane realizes his team doesn't just have go be better than KC; it has to be a LOT better to overcome the cheating. Somehow he has to give Allen receivers of Bengals caliber and a defense of KC caliber, or even one of these. I know he's been trying. The Von Miller contract was--and will continue to be--an epic disaster, through no fault of Beane's, as was the Diggs contract albatross last year. If both those players had worked out, things would likely be different, even with the cheating. 

[2003Contenders]

For me -- and I am sure for many others as well -- this board is a great place to come for therapeutic healing after a loss like last week's. (Thanks to everyone for that!) I will say that after a week of digesting what all went on with the game, my own feelings are much more positive than they were last week.

 

Initial reaction to the offensive performance: the coaches did not sufficiently stick to the running game, Josh was not his usual post-season Superman self, and the over-use (and lack of innovation) on the "tush push" proved fatal.

 

Initial reaction to the defensive performance: the Bills allowed the Chiefs to score points than they did in any other game this season, and once again the post-season comes to an end in the McD/Beane/Allen era with a resoundingly poor showing by the defense.

 

With some time to reflect, while my initial reactions have not necessarily gone away, I will say that I am not nearly as down as I was last week. Just some random thoughts:

 

• Sometimes you look back at a game with a close score and you say to yourself that the close score was not truly indicative of how closely matched the 2 teams were in the game. Well, in this case, that is NOT true. The game really was THAT close. Both teams scored 4 TDs and 1 field goal. Despite all the bad officiating, questionable play calls, etc. the game really did come down to the fact that the Chiefs made good on their 2 point conversion -- whereas the Bills failed on both of their attempts. The Bills ran 66 plays, and the Chiefs ran 61. The Bills racked up 384 yards of offense, and the Chiefs racked up 380. Yes, it was that close.
• As much as we decry the defense allowing the Chiefs to score 32 points in the game, if you had told me before the game that the defense would hold Travis Kelce to 2 receptions for just 19 yards, mostly bottle up the Chief's running game (less than 4.0 yards per carry), prevent the RBs from having a big day catching the ball (just a total of 4 receptions for 35 yards), win the turnover battle 1-0, and keep Mahomes under 250 yards passing WITHOUT two key pieces of the Bills' secondary on the field -- I would have been VERY happy.
   
• While I see the argument that a great number of folks have made about McD and his staff being out-coached, we are talking about an opposing team that has Andy Reid calling the plays and Spags running the defense. Both of these gentlemen will likely wind up in the Hall of Fame one day. Yes, there were certainly things that I wish the coaches had done differently, but given how close the game was, that the Chiefs had home field advantage, were mostly healthy, and most certainly received MANY favorable calls from the officials, I think it is hard to complain too much about the coaching.
• Josh certainly came out with too many juices flowing - a la Brett Favre. I do wish that Brady had dialed up a more scaled back start to the game with some runs mixed in, etc. But after that poor start, Josh settled down -- and the offense scored the 2nd most points that any team scored against the Chiefs all season.  The first-most, of course, was the one additional point that the Bills scored against them during the regular season. If the officials did not get so many of the spots wrong throughout the AFCCG, I honestly wonder how many more points the Bills would have scored! At the end of the day, Josh's and Mahomes numbers were quite similar: 237 yards and 2 TD passes for Josh, 245 yards and 1 TD pass for Mahomes. Ironically, it was Mahomes who did more damage on the ground: 11/39 yards rushing for Josh compared to 11/43 for Mahomes, which was close -- but Mahomes scored twice. Clearly, the Chiefs #1 goal was to minimize Josh's success outside the pocket -- and credit to them for doing that. Last note about the offense: the Chiefs biggest weakness during the season was that they allowed TEs to catch the ball at will. The Bills completed a combined 3 passes for 20 yards to TEs. I know Kincaid was supposedly still nursing a knee injury -- but why was Dawson Knox, who has had a pretty good track record against the Chiefs, targeted just once (which he caught)?

Oh well. I will say that I feel better heading into next year than I did a week ago. The team should have more cap room to work with this year and, rather than an overhaul, if they can make some smart tweaks here and there -- a few more solid pieces on defense and at least one more capable receiver -- they should be a Super Bowl contender again in 2025.

 

[SaulGoodman]

1 hour ago, finn said:

No way I'm watching the Fraud Bowl with the incessant glazing of Mahomes. Makes me physically ill to hear that garbage. 

 

But first signs of recovery: I'm just beginning to think about the draft. I hope Beane realizes his team doesn't just have go be better than KC; it has to be a LOT better to overcome the cheating. Somehow he has to give Allen receivers of Bengals caliber and a defense of KC caliber, or even one of these. I know he's been trying. The Von Miller contract was--and will continue to be--an epic disaster, through no fault of Beane's, as was the Diggs contract albatross last year. If both those players had worked out, things would likely be different, even with the cheating. 

Dear God, people…

 

You really think the outcome of that game was determined by a bad spot? And you think the ref knowingly spotted it short?

 

There were two blatant missed calls that contributed to two Chiefs punts (their only punts in the game). An obvious facemask, and an obvious Offside that was called a false start, leading to 3rd and 15. Were the refs cheating for both teams?

 

For their own mental health, people should really let go of the ref insanity. 
 

Buffalo had the ball, down three, with three min left. That was a golden opportunity. Plus, there were five fumbles in the game and all five were recovered by Buffalo. KC also dropped multiple gift-wrapped interceptions. That’s a lot of luck and I don’t think it’s offset by a questionable spot. 

[ShakAttack]

38 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

Dear God, people…

 

You really think the outcome of that game was determined by a bad spot? And you think the ref knowingly spotted it short?

 

There were two blatant missed calls that contributed to two Chiefs punts (their only punts in the game). An obvious facemask, and an obvious Offside that was called a false start, leading to 3rd and 15. Were the refs cheating for both teams?

 

For their own mental health, people should really let go of the ref insanity. 
 

Buffalo had the ball, down three, with three min left. That was a golden opportunity. Plus, there were five fumbles in the game and all five were recovered by Buffalo. KC also dropped multiple gift-wrapped interceptions. That’s a lot of luck and I don’t think it’s offset by a questionable spot. 

I personally don’t think that, actually. But at the same time it is also hard to believe that ever since the Kadarius Toney offensive Offside last season (a correct call) the Chiefs have not had ANY decisive calls go against them, while having numerous go in their favor, and it just seems like too many to be merely a “coincidence”. Especially when you consider this is a team that played almost every single game down to the wire this season. I have my own theory on it, and it’s not that refs are “intentionally” doing it, but it’s very difficult to believe it’s pure coincidence (unless they really do just have four leaf clovers up their a$$es)

[SaulGoodman]

6 minutes ago, ShakAttack said:

I personally don’t think that, actually. But at the same time it is also hard to believe that ever since the Kadarius Toney offensive Offside last season (a correct call) the Chiefs have not had ANY decisive calls go against them, while having numerous go in their favor, and it just seems like too many to be merely a “coincidence”. Especially when you consider this is a team that played almost every single game down to the wire this season. I have my own theory on it, and it’s not that refs are “intentionally” doing it, but it’s very difficult to believe it’s pure coincidence (unless they really do just have four leaf clovers up their a$$es)

I don’t understand why people say that no big calls go against KC. The biggest calls have often gone against them.
 

4 TDs and 2 turnovers were wiped away by penalties in the previous two playoff runs. 0 for their opponents. Last postseason they were the only team to have a TD negated by penalty and it happened twice. In the SB, SF drew a bailout DPI on 3rd and 13 in OT. KC was penalized 11 times to 4 for Tampa in the SB in ‘21. Etc.

 

An ESPN article from earlier this season found that the Chiefs were the most penalized team in the league in close/late game situations. Overall they’ve been one of the most penalized teams during the Mahomes era, despite having a great coaching staff that’s very detail-oriented and practices them hard. 

 

Fans claim to want fair officiating but it’s clear that’s not the case, because they don’t say a word if a call is blown in favor of a KC opponent and they don’t question calls that go against the Chiefs. 
 

It’s fair to say that KC’s had some lucky moments here and there, but it’s not exclusive to them. Look at just the last two games for the Bills for example. The turnover luck vs Baltimore and the drop by Andrews, the fumbled handoff by KC, multiple blown calls. 5 fumbles in the game and all 5 recovered by the Bills. Multiple dropped INTs. 
 

I don’t think KC has more luck than most teams, and they definitely don’t get all the calls. It’s just magnified to the extreme whenever they do benefit from a questionable call.

[finn]

2 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

Dear God, people…

 

You really think the outcome of that game was determined by a bad spot? And you think the ref knowingly spotted it short?

 

There were two blatant missed calls that contributed to two Chiefs punts (their only punts in the game). An obvious facemask, and an obvious Offside that was called a false start, leading to 3rd and 15. Were the refs cheating for both teams?

 

For their own mental health, people should really let go of the ref insanity. 
 

Buffalo had the ball, down three, with three min left. That was a golden opportunity. Plus, there were five fumbles in the game and all five were recovered by Buffalo. KC also dropped multiple gift-wrapped interceptions. That’s a lot of luck and I don’t think it’s offset by a questionable spot. 

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but this is just the reasoning the league, if it is cheating, wants to hear from fans. "It didn't happen" along with "If it did, it wouldn't have affected the outcome," with plenty of "What about that call?" remarks thrown in. If the cheating is real, you're playing a very important role for the league, which, with you and other ordinary fans defending them at every step, hasn't even bothered to dispute the charges (although they're careful to come down hard on the more damaging criticism from players and coaches). 

 

I'm skeptical of all conspiracy theories because of motivated reason (you find what you're looking for and disregard the rest). But sometimes there is some truth under the suspicion. So I play the "believing game" to explore the given question. For a moment, put aside your skepticism that the league cheated and believe that it did. How would they go about altering the result? What would they do and not do? For example, would they urge the refs to be blatant or subtle? Would they tell them to try to throw blowouts or only very close games?

At the end of those sorts of questions, I get the KC-Buffalo game. Even then, I'm not persuaded there was cheating. But factor in the billions of dollars balancing on the outcome, it seems blindingly naïve that conclude that there wasn't. 

 

 

[ShakAttack]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

I don’t understand why people say that no big calls go against KC. The biggest calls have often gone against them.
 

4 TDs and 2 turnovers were wiped away by penalties in the previous two playoff runs. 0 for their opponents. Last postseason they were the only team to have a TD negated by penalty and it happened twice. In the SB, SF drew a bailout DPI on 3rd and 13 in OT. KC was penalized 11 times to 4 for Tampa in the SB in ‘21. Etc.

 

An ESPN article from earlier this season found that the Chiefs were the most penalized team in the league in close/late game situations. Overall they’ve been one of the most penalized teams during the Mahomes era, despite having a great coaching staff that’s very detail-oriented and practices them hard. 

 

Fans claim to want fair officiating but it’s clear that’s not the case, because they don’t say a word if a call is blown in favor of a KC opponent and they don’t question calls that go against the Chiefs. 
 

It’s fair to say that KC’s had some lucky moments here and there, but it’s not exclusive to them. Look at just the last two games for the Bills for example. The turnover luck vs Baltimore and the drop by Andrews, the fumbled handoff by KC, multiple blown calls. 5 fumbles in the game and all 5 recovered by the Bills. Multiple dropped INTs. 
 

I don’t think KC has more luck than most teams, and they definitely don’t get all the calls. It’s just magnified to the extreme whenever they do benefit from a questionable call.

 

There are some good points here, but I was referring to the fact that there have been no calls against them in decisive moments since the Kadarius Toney offensive Offside penalty last year when Mahomes threw a massive tantrum, which remains valid.  I do agree that there have been significant calls against the Chiefs prior to this season, but this season, there have been none that I can think of.  This season, KC seems to be getting different treatment, whether you want to say it is coincidental or not, the bottom line is the same.

 

Regarding the Bills lucking out in the Ravens game, that is 100% correct.  In fact, when friends & family congratulated me after that game, my initial reaction was, "Wow, I am not used to seeing the Bills get the lucky breaks in the playoffs; maybe this season is different after all,"  and then after Mark Andrews drops the pass on the Ravens final play on offense of the season, we all watch Kincaid do the same thing.   Does that mean the Chiefs got lucky?  I mean, yes, we were clearly outcoached in that game, but regardless of what happened in the first 3 quarters, this game was always going to come down to the 4th quarter one way or another, and in that quarter, the Chiefs had 2 extremely lucky moments.  First being the terrible spot on 4th and 1 (refs and out of our control), and second being the Kincaid drop (self inflicted by Bills).  

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

For me -- and I am sure for many others as well -- this board is a great place to come for therapeutic healing after a loss like last week's. (Thanks to everyone for that!) I will say that after a week of digesting what all went on with the game, my own feelings are much more positive than they were last week.

 

Initial reaction to the offensive performance: the coaches did not sufficiently stick to the running game, Josh was not his usual post-season Superman self, and the over-use (and lack of innovation) on the "tush push" proved fatal.

 

Initial reaction to the defensive performance: the Bills allowed the Chiefs to score points than they did in any other game this season, and once again the post-season comes to an end in the McD/Beane/Allen era with a resoundingly poor showing by the defense.

 

With some time to reflect, while my initial reactions have not necessarily gone away, I will say that I am not nearly as down as I was last week. Just some random thoughts:

 

• Sometimes you look back at a game with a close score and you say to yourself that the close score was not truly indicative of how closely matched the 2 teams were in the game. Well, in this case, that is NOT true. The game really was THAT close. Both teams scored 4 TDs and 1 field goal. Despite all the bad officiating, questionable play calls, etc. the game really did come down to the fact that the Chiefs made good on their 2 point conversion -- whereas the Bills failed on both of their attempts. The Bills ran 66 plays, and the Chiefs ran 61. The Bills racked up 384 yards of offense, and the Chiefs racked up 380. Yes, it was that close.
• As much as we decry the defense allowing the Chiefs to score 32 points in the game, if you had told me before the game that the defense would hold Travis Kelce to 2 receptions for just 19 yards, mostly bottle up the Chief's running game (less than 4.0 yards per carry), prevent the RBs from having a big day catching the ball (just a total of 4 receptions for 35 yards), win the turnover battle 1-0, and keep Mahomes under 250 yards passing WITHOUT two key pieces of the Bills' secondary on the field -- I would have been VERY happy.
   
• While I see the argument that a great number of folks have made about McD and his staff being out-coached, we are talking about an opposing team that has Andy Reid calling the plays and Spags running the defense. Both of these gentlemen will likely wind up in the Hall of Fame one day. Yes, there were certainly things that I wish the coaches had done differently, but given how close the game was, that the Chiefs had home field advantage, were mostly healthy, and most certainly received MANY favorable calls from the officials, I think it is hard to complain too much about the coaching.
• Josh certainly came out with too many juices flowing - a la Brett Favre. I do wish that Brady had dialed up a more scaled back start to the game with some runs mixed in, etc. But after that poor start, Josh settled down -- and the offense scored the 2nd most points that any team scored against the Chiefs all season.  The first-most, of course, was the one additional point that the Bills scored against them during the regular season. If the officials did not get so many of the spots wrong throughout the AFCCG, I honestly wonder how many more points the Bills would have scored! At the end of the day, Josh's and Mahomes numbers were quite similar: 237 yards and 2 TD passes for Josh, 245 yards and 1 TD pass for Mahomes. Ironically, it was Mahomes who did more damage on the ground: 11/39 yards rushing for Josh compared to 11/43 for Mahomes, which was close -- but Mahomes scored twice. Clearly, the Chiefs #1 goal was to minimize Josh's success outside the pocket -- and credit to them for doing that. Last note about the offense: the Chiefs biggest weakness during the season was that they allowed TEs to catch the ball at will. The Bills completed a combined 3 passes for 20 yards to TEs. I know Kincaid was supposedly still nursing a knee injury -- but why was Dawson Knox, who has had a pretty good track record against the Chiefs, targeted just once (which he caught)?

Oh well. I will say that I feel better heading into next year than I did a week ago. The team should have more cap room to work with this year and, rather than an overhaul, if they can make some smart tweaks here and there -- a few more solid pieces on defense and at least one more capable receiver -- they should be a Super Bowl contender again in 2025.

 

Yes the game was as close as it can possibly get. Both statistically and scoring. So when 2 teams are that evenly matched, it will always come down to coaching and officials.  We got 6 documented bad spots. The Worthy/ Bishop catch could've been called 3 different ways.  We had twice as many penalty yards as KC.  And Reid/ Spags again outcoached Sean and his boys all day.  When a game is expected to be that close KC (-1.5) you are 100% guaranteed to get beat by refs and the opposing coaching staff.

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

Dear God, people…

 

You really think the outcome of that game was determined by a bad spot? And you think the ref knowingly spotted it short?

 

There were two blatant missed calls that contributed to two Chiefs punts (their only punts in the game). An obvious facemask, and an obvious Offside that was called a false start, leading to 3rd and 15. Were the refs cheating for both teams?

 

For their own mental health, people should really let go of the ref insanity. 
 

Buffalo had the ball, down three, with three min left. That was a golden opportunity. Plus, there were five fumbles in the game and all five were recovered by Buffalo. KC also dropped multiple gift-wrapped interceptions. That’s a lot of luck and I don’t think it’s offset by a questionable spot. 

There are missed penalties on both sides of the ball throughout the game but spotting a ball is an absolutely critical part to football that nobody talks about 

 

100% Chiefs had good spots while the bills had 7 or eight maybe even 9 iffy  spots throughout the game

 

That's a way to control the game 100% especially in a game of inches don't kid yourself

 

 

[BarleyNY]