good comments from Bills players in this new Athletic piece

[90sBills]

44 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It wasn’t a bullet. It wasn’t over his head. Kincaid doesn’t have a defender draped on him. He makes the adjustment while the ball, a lob, is in the air and the ball literally goes right through his arms. 

It was a ball the was dying short and away from his momentum. He was in a full sprint away from the ball and had to reverse his weight shift. It was the best throw Allen could make under the circumstances but it wasn’t an easy ball to catch.

 

It shouldn’t have gotten to that anyway if they were efficient in the 1st 3 downs. 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

"He’s a dual-threat quarterback,” Rousseau said. “Sometimes with him, you look at the film from the regular-season game and he was more so throwing the ball. Then last night he was running the ball a lot more. It was a lot more boots and they kind of changed up the game plan. You kind of don’t know what you’re going to get with a quarterback like him.”

 

 

I don't really buy this. In our regular season game we made it a point to contain rush him and it was a big reason why our defense performed so well in that game. So I was shocked at how comparatively poor our rush fundamentals were in this game. We gave Mahomes free reign to move anywhere he wanted for the entire 1st half. It's just bad coaching.

[Ballhawk]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

O’CyrusTorrence - “Chiefs called a better play than we had, on no offense”

Fixed

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, Ballhawk said:

Fixed

That’s his quote, not mine.

[Ballhawk]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

That’s his quote, not mine.

I know, I was fixing it for him 😛

[london_bills]

1 hour ago, Brand J said:

In fairness, how do you know we didn’t? I guess if you’re arguing from the defensive side, I would agree, but offensively we did score 4 TDs and a FG, same as KC. 

Yeah it's always easy to be critical when something doesn't work. An example would be the sneak, we didn't try something different there although I'm aware there would be criticism if we tried something else and it didn't work.

[SoCal Deek]

59 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

It was a ball the was dying short and away from his momentum. He was in a full sprint away from the ball and had to reverse his weight shift. It was the best throw Allen could make under the circumstances but it wasn’t an easy ball to catch.

 

It shouldn’t have gotten to that anyway if they were efficient in the 1st 3 downs. 

It shouldn’t have gotten to that point….but it did. In THAT moment you have to catch the ball or you go home. It’s that simple. Ask Mark Andrews. 

[MrEpsYtown]

So it’s coaching

[Shaw66]

55 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It shouldn’t have gotten to that point….but it did. In THAT moment you have to catch the ball or you go home. It’s that simple. Ask Mark Andrews. 

Exactly. Ask Mark Andrews. 

 

90sBills is correct; it wasn't an easy ball to catch.  But pretty much any tight end in the league will tell you that it was a catchable ball, and that he should make the catch.  

 

The Bills have a 35-year history of not making the play to win the game.  Start with wide right, and go forward from there.  Make a play in the Music City Miracle. Make a play in the Cowboys Monday night game. Make a play in 13 seconds.  Make a play against the Chiefs in the playoffs last year.  Make a play against the Chiefs in the playoffs this year. 

 

Think about all the clutch catches you've seen in big games.  That guy for the Steelers in the Super Bowl with the incredible two toes inside the line for the touchdown.  Edelman picking the ball of the ground. That guy for the Giants pinning Manning's desperation throw against his helmet.  

 

You have to make plays to win big games. Josh made the play against an incredible rush and put a catchable ball out there, a pass that would have put the Bills in position to tie or win the game. 

 

Kincaid has to make the play if the Bills want to win. 

[pennstate10]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

O’CyrusTorrence - “Chiefs called a better play than we had on offense”

I’ve heard this discussed. 
 

Just like McD going for 2, I think Bills were overthinking this play. 
 

Obvious things are obvious. 
Allen much prefers to escape to his right when under pressure. So it made sense for Chiefs to pressure Allen’s right side on a 4th down play. 
 

So even if you think they’re coming from your left, unless you’re really sure, rolling protection away from where they are most likely to come from doesn’t make sense. 

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Exactly. Ask Mark Andrews. 

 

90sBills is correct; it wasn't an easy ball to catch.  But pretty much any tight end in the league will tell you that it was a catchable ball, and that he should make the catch.  

 

The Bills have a 35-year history of not making the play to win the game.  Start with wide right, and go forward from there.  Make a play in the Music City Miracle. Make a play in the Cowboys Monday night game. Make a play in 13 seconds.  Make a play against the Chiefs in the playoffs last year.  Make a play against the Chiefs in the playoffs this year. 

 

Think about all the clutch catches you've seen in big games.  That guy for the Steelers in the Super Bowl with the incredible two toes inside the line for the touchdown.  Edelman picking the ball of the ground. That guy for the Giants pinning Manning's desperation throw against his helmet.  

 

You have to make plays to win big games. Josh made the play against an incredible rush and put a catchable ball out there, a pass that would have put the Bills in position to tie or win the game. 

 

Kincaid has to make the play if the Bills want to win. 

Bingo! Very well said Shaw. 
As fans (fanatics) we tend to overlook the plays that go in our favor. Just look back a couple weeks to Ty’s miraculous catch at the back of the end zone. For the Bills to eventually (if ever) want to win a Lombardi it’s almost certainly going to come down to a play very similar to Kincaid’s on Sunday evening. Unfortunately, like so many many times in Bills folklore, the ball tragically went right through his waiting arms. 
Maybe next year!

Go Bills 

[transient]

3 hours ago, london_bills said:

What annoys me is not that KC came up with new stuff to fool us, it's the fact that we didn't come up with new stuff to fool them. 

 

Why doesn't this coaching staff put certain plays in ONLY for KC? 

 

 

As I posted in another thread, it's the Marv Levy years all over again. The Bills will get as far as their talent alone can take them and not a step farther until their coaches finally figure this out. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

12 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I’ve heard this discussed. 
 

Just like McD going for 2, I think Bills were overthinking this play. 
 

Obvious things are obvious. 
Allen much prefers to escape to his right when under pressure. So it made sense for Chiefs to pressure Allen’s right side on a 4th down play. 
 

So even if you think they’re coming from your left, unless you’re really sure, rolling protection away from where they are most likely to come from doesn’t make sense. 

All of his help was to the left, protection and hots. I would love to hear Allen talk about this play at some point. I think he knew he had Kincaid and hurried it a little. Snapped the ball with a lot of time on the play clock. He could’ve ran it down more, maybe the Chiefs show something.
 

He was 100% right that he had Kincaid but the Chiefs baited him and won the play and the game.

 

He still somehow gave Kincaid a chance to make a play. 
 

Listened to Eric Wood talk about it. Basically said Spags is either the hero or a zero with this call in that situation. It was a gutsy call, but he’s known for that.

Edited Tuesday at 07:57 PM by Buffalo_Stampede

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

So it’s coaching

 

The more I reflect and read about the game the more I come to this conclusion. The dead giveaway is that all of their TD drives were easy with barely any resistance, while ours relied on multiple 4th down conversions, James Cook making a miraculous individual play at the goalline, etc. We were threading needles and biting our nails while they were casually waltzing downfield. Just a massive coaching gap on both sides of the ball. I don't know how we are going to suddenly bridge that gap while Allen is still in his prime. It's demoralizing to think about.

[Shaw66]

Since this discussion of the play began, I've been thinking about what should have happened.  

 

We've seen replays of Shakir floating out into the flat on the left side.  Bills only needed five yards.  So, here's what I think should have happened.  

 

The Chiefs showed the blitz coming from the right. The Bills knew their tendency was to drop those potential blitzers in coverage and instead blitz from the left.  If Allen had been well prepared, Allen would have shifted the protection to the left, as he apparently did, and then on the snap check where the blitz was coming from. If the Chiefs stay with their tendency, he hangs in the pocket and the play proceeds as called.  If they switch it up, which they did, and come from the right, then Josh immediately scrambles left.  Because the Chiefs were blitzing, they were in man, and all the patterns were dragging the receivers out to the right.  Allen then has the option: toss it to Shakir or let Shakir block the first defender to arrive and Josh keeps it.  

 

The first down would have been more or less automatic if he had rolled left. 

[The Jokeman]

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

it was patently obvious to me how unprepared we were

 

players were not put in positions to succeed

Really? We had a chance to win with 3:33 left in 4th quarter with possession. I'm sorry we had a chance and failed, granted a few key plays earlier and maybe things turn out differently but it's not on coaches alone. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Exactly. Ask Mark Andrews. 

 

90sBills is correct; it wasn't an easy ball to catch.  But pretty much any tight end in the league will tell you that it was a catchable ball, and that he should make the catch.  

 

The Bills have a 35-year history of not making the play to win the game.  Start with wide right, and go forward from there.  Make a play in the Music City Miracle. Make a play in the Cowboys Monday night game. Make a play in 13 seconds.  Make a play against the Chiefs in the playoffs last year.  Make a play against the Chiefs in the playoffs this year. 

 

Think about all the clutch catches you've seen in big games.  That guy for the Steelers in the Super Bowl with the incredible two toes inside the line for the touchdown.  Edelman picking the ball of the ground. That guy for the Giants pinning Manning's desperation throw against his helmet.  

 

You have to make plays to win big games. Josh made the play against an incredible rush and put a catchable ball out there, a pass that would have put the Bills in position to tie or win the game. 

 

Kincaid has to make the play if the Bills want to win. 

 

Kincaid absolutely has to make that catch, but one thing that's striking to me is that nobody on KC had to make an outstanding individual play. Ok I'll give them Worthy's contested "catch". But nothing like Cook's effort on his 4th down TD or Josh leaping over a pile of bodies. All KC had to do was what the coaches told them to do and execute the plays as called to get a fairly easy win. Our players have to stand on their heads doing magic tricks and it still wasn't enough.

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The more I reflect and read about the game the more I come to this conclusion. The dead giveaway is that all of their TD drives were easy with barely any resistance, while ours relied on multiple 4th down conversions, James Cook making a miraculous individual play at the goalline, etc. We were threading needles and biting our nails while they were casually waltzing downfield. Just a massive coaching gap on both sides of the ball. I don't know how we are going to suddenly bridge that gap while Allen is still in his prime. It's demoralizing to think about.

I really agree with this.  I'm trying to not get demoralized.  

 

I wouldn't call a massive coaching gap.  It's just a gap.  Bills lost by 3 and had a quality chance to win.  That isn't massive. 

 

However, I think there more than enough plays in that game to demonstrate that there is a coaching gap, massive or not. I wrote to a friend that the Bills are long on culture and tenacity, but short on coaching acumen.  Now, in McDermott's defense, no one else is outcoaching the Chiefs, either. Their record in one score games this season is a testament to that.  Still, if you want to beat Reid, you have to think along with him, and the Bills are not doing that. 

 

It's really galling to hear the Bills saying over and over that the Chiefs did things the Bills hadn't seen on film.  Well, duh.  It's a simple task.  You look at the Chiefs' tendencies, prepare for them, and also ask yourself what the Chiefs are likely to do to counter their own tendencies.  It's basic game prep. 

[I'mBuff]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not sure what all of this about. Just the week before, Mark Andrews dropped a sure two point conversion and the Ravens went home. This week Kincaid dropped a sure field goal yard to gain catch and the Bills went home. It’s pretty darn simple! 

For all the praise for KC and spagnola. We were only like two plays from being able to win. Terrible that we couldn’t get over the hump, but even just switching the officiating advantage gives us the win. It doesn’t mean I’m still that angry cause even just a better coach game gives us the victory.

23 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Since this discussion of the play began, I've been thinking about what should have happened.  

 

We've seen replays of Shakir floating out into the flat on the left side.  Bills only needed five yards.  So, here's what I think should have happened.  

 

The Chiefs showed the blitz coming from the right. The Bills knew their tendency was to drop those potential blitzers in coverage and instead blitz from the left.  If Allen had been well prepared, Allen would have shifted the protection to the left, as he apparently did, and then on the snap check where the blitz was coming from. If the Chiefs stay with their tendency, he hangs in the pocket and the play proceeds as called.  If they switch it up, which they did, and come from the right, then Josh immediately scrambles left.  Because the Chiefs were blitzing, they were in man, and all the patterns were dragging the receivers out to the right.  Allen then has the option: toss it to Shakir or let Shakir block the first defender to arrive and Josh keeps it.  

 

The first down would have been more or less automatic if he had rolled left. 

His automatic drift back to the right was killer. It’s a big tendency of his and they knew it.

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Kincaid absolutely has to make that catch, but one thing that's striking to me is that nobody on KC had to make an outstanding individual play. Ok I'll give them Worthy's contested "catch". But nothing like Cook's effort on his 4th down TD or Josh leaping over a pile of bodies. All KC had to do was what the coaches told them to do and execute the plays as called to get a fairly easy win. Our players have to stand on their heads doing magic tricks and it still wasn't enough.

Well, sure, some of their plays looked like they were talking candy, but really, the Chiefs struggled all day to put up points. The stats were incredibly even.  It wasn't a cake walk for the Chiefs. 

 

The difference was what everyone always says - the game is about five or six plays and who made them.  In this game, coaching is what enabled the Chiefs to make plays, and the lack of coaching is what hurt the Bills. 

 

I don't know where I said this, but the Bills coaches needed to go away from the sneak.  Once the Chiefs almost stopped it, it meant that the play would not have a 90+% probability of success.  When they did stop it on third down, that was proof positive.  Bills needed an answer on fourth down, and the coaches either didn't have one or didn't see that they needed to go there.  Either way, the coaches let the team down. 

5 minutes ago, I'mBuff said:

 

His automatic drift back to the right was killer. It’s a big tendency of his and they knew it.

Yes, but his drift back to the right was based on the assumption that the Chiefs would go with their tendency and blitz from the left.  They had the blocking set to handle the blitz to the left.  They were showing blitz from the right, and he needed to be prepared if they went against their tendency.  If he had looked at the snap, he would have seen that the blitz was coming from the right, and then he could have rolled left.