Kurt Warner breaks down the 4th down. Allen error?

[Sojourner]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

yeah you go empty on 4th and 5 knowing pressure's coming from somewhere and you run slow to develop crossers w Johnson+Cooper...Shakir on the orbit is going to have to beat 2 guys playing zone w eyes in the backfield plus catching the ball 10yards behind LOS

 

it was just doomed from the start imo

Precisely. The tape is there on Spagnolo and his tendencies. He’s not letting you dictate what to do on crucial downs. He’s blitzing more often than not, you just have to determine where. 
 

Doomed from the start is accurate. The play, its design in routes and personnel lining, the protection changes. Just a mess. The sadder part is whether you want to throw the blame on A, B or C. the play was still in a position to be made. 
 

Looking back on it, it’s a theme all year. Slow developing routes unless it’s a dump off to Shakir/Running Back. 
 

A lot of questionable play calls throughout the game. All of them in crucial moments. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Sojourner said:

Precisely. The tape is there on Spagnolo and his tendencies. He’s not letting you dictate what to do on crucial downs. He’s blitzing more often than not, you just have to determine where. 
 

Doomed from the start is accurate. The play, its design in routes and personnel lining, the protection changes. Just a mess. The sadder part is whether you want to throw the blame on A, B or C. the play was still in a position to be made. 
 

Looking back on it, it’s a theme all year. Slow developing routes unless it’s a dump off to Shakir/Running Back. 
 

A lot of questionable play calls throughout the game. All of them in crucial moments. 

😂😂And that's the best we could come up w on the biggest play of any of their lives

 

If you have a chance go look at the all 22 of the 2nd down throwaway to Shakir, equally amateurish design

 

Meanwhile Chiefs have perfect pockets to ice the game w a wide open Samaje Perine 

 

Barely even the same sport tbh

[Sojourner]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

😂😂And that's the best we could come up w on the biggest play of any of their lives

 

If you have a chance go look at the all 22 of the 2nd down throwaway to Shakir, equally amateurish design

 

Meanwhile Chiefs have perfect pockets to ice the game w a wide open Samaje Perine 

 

Barely even the same sport tbh

Awful series of plays. I get their concept but there’s plenty of time to be running the ball. 
 

Wild ride of events. 
 

Toss play to Ty Johnson should have told you all you needed. 
 

Josh’s scramble had he convinced it was different though. Then 4 plays of huh?!

After the TD effort by Cook earlier, we let him down not being in that drive. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Sojourner said:

Awful series of plays. I get their concept but there’s plenty of time to be running the ball. 
 

Wild ride of events. 
 

Toss play to Ty Johnson should have told you all you needed. 
 

Josh’s scramble had he convinced it was different though. Then 4 plays of huh?!

Yup the toss was the canary in the coal mine I agree

 

But tbh the whole game felt that way to me. A lot of the Bills saying 'well I hope this works' and the Chiefs saying 'i knows this is going to work and we will kill you w it'

 

Repeat repeat repeat

 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

😂😂And that's the best we could come up w on the biggest play of any of their lives

 

If you have a chance go look at the all 22 of the 2nd down throwaway to Shakir, equally amateurish design

 

Meanwhile Chiefs have perfect pockets to ice the game w a wide open Samaje Perine 

 

Barely even the same sport tbh

I didn't see even one new or innovative offensive play from Brady in this game.  What a huge disappointment. 

[Billz4ever]

24 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

The protection problem was what caused the throw to be 15 yrds off target and forced Kincaid to have to reverse field and dive for it.

That might have had something to do with the drop.

 

Was the throw ideal?  Of course not.  The fact Josh got the ball off at all is a miracle in itself, but that's a catch an NFL receiver should be able to make.  Especially from a guy who was touted as having the best hands in the entire draft.  I think he misjudged and made a bad adjustment to the ball. This season, I've soured on Kincaid and it didn't start with that miss. He just hasn't gotten open well this season and when he has, he's not a dependable target. I'm hoping he can have a good rebound season next year because if he doesn't, we traded up in the 1st round for a TE2 at best since he's not a great blocker either. Just my opinion on him at this snapshot in time.

 

  

Edited yesterday at 12:28 AM by Billz4ever

[Gugny]

Kurt Warner and his slut wife can suck it. 
 

Praise be to their lord and savior Jesus Christ. 

[Billz4ever]

24 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I didn't see even one new or innovative offensive play from Brady in this game.  What a huge disappointment. 

 

It was almost like a Chief's spy got inside our playbook, threw out all the actual good plays and left the garbage that shouldn't be in there to begin with.

 

Fade to Coleman with McDuffie there probably begging the Bills to try and throw it to the rookie?  Are you kidding me? 

[MJS]

51 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

I'll never understand the logic that says a protection miscue is somehow worse than a receiver dropping a ball that hits him in the hands.  Makes no sense.  The protection problem isn't what cause the turnover on downs. The ball hitting the ground because the receiver didn't catch it did.

Sure, but the pressure contributed.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

Sure, but the pressure contributed.

 

I've said as much. Still a ball that should've been caught.

[Old Coot]

On 1/27/2025 at 5:04 PM, MJS said:

I think Warner is using hindsight.

It's hindsight but also foresight.

 

Look, its THE crucial play of the game. KC has numbers to our right; we have numbers to our left. Either KC will blitz from from our right or from our left or not blitz.

 

You HAVE to get the first down, no question.  When you assume that KC won't blitz from our and shift blocking to the left right because KC hasn't blitzed from that look all game, you take a HUGE risk, especially since Josh is known to prefer running to his right when pressed.

 

Is that the kind of risk you want to take in this situation? I think not.

 

Josh needs to audible out of the play or at the very least call a TO and talk things over.

 

Now I'm not blaming Josh, he made a helluva throw under the most adverse circumstances.

 

But someone has to get that play changed to a less risky play.

[DapperCam]

I think Brady choked here on the playcall. It’s Spags on a critical down. You have to think there is a greater than 80% chance he is blitzing.

 

So there needs to be an easy safety valve built in to the play. Shakir was a totally wasted pass catcher with that route. It’s pointless to have him spinning around 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Have somebody do a simple slant or curl or button hook or something to at least give an option. We only needed 5 yards for crying out loud, why are all the routes 20 yards down the field? Situational coaching fail.

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

 

I'll never understand the logic that says a protection miscue is somehow worse than a receiver dropping a ball that hits him in the hands.  Makes no sense.  The protection problem isn't what cause the turnover on downs. The ball hitting the ground because the receiver didn't catch it did.

Thank you! This has become like the Kennedy assassination. So many exaggerations. If you watch and rewatch the tape this fan took from his seat in the upper deck you’ll see that Kincaid moved less than SIX FEET to come back and be right in position to catch the lofted ball. He simply flubbed it. It happens. 

[Sojourner]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thank you! This has become like the Kennedy assassination. So many exaggerations. If you watch and rewatch the tape this fan took from his seat in the upper deck you’ll see that Kincaid moved less than SIX FEET to come back and be right in position to catch the lofted ball. He simply flubbed it. It happens. 

 

So we have to wait just over 61 years for the Kincaid drop to be declassified?

 

I’ll be long dead by then. FML

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

From that angle it’s just hard to understand why Kincaid did not make a stronger play on the ball.  Additionally a hell of a throw from Josh under the circumstances.  Kincaid could have lived up to his half of “great players make great plays in big moments.”

 

Yeah, it looks like he wouldn’t have even had to dive for it if he tracked the ball correctly.  
 

Who was that other Bill in the area, Hollins?   He was running hard and may have had it but Kincaid got in his way.

[DapperCam]

13 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

Yeah, it looks like he wouldn’t have even had to dive for it if he tracked the ball correctly.  
 

Who was that other Bill in the area, Hollins?   He was running hard and may have had it but Kincaid got in his way.

It was Hollins, I kind of wonder if having two WR in the area made Kincaid hesitate for a second. Another thing I noticed from that angle is Allen could have scrambled left, but it would have required him to fully turn his back to the line and spin. In the split-second he had to decide, he probably assumed Spencer Brown would hold his block (which he did not). Man, shifting the protection or not Spencer Brown got beat straight up one-on-one, and Torrance got confused and let two guys past untouched. O-line really let us down there even if it wasn't ideal circumstances for them.

Edited yesterday at 04:04 AM by DapperCam

[90sBills]

3 hours ago, Sojourner said:

Precisely. The tape is there on Spagnolo and his tendencies. He’s not letting you dictate what to do on crucial downs. He’s blitzing more often than not, you just have to determine where. 
 

Doomed from the start is accurate. The play, its design in routes and personnel lining, the protection changes. Just a mess. The sadder part is whether you want to throw the blame on A, B or C. the play was still in a position to be made. 
 

Looking back on it, it’s a theme all year. Slow developing routes unless it’s a dump off to Shakir/Running Back. 
 

A lot of questionable play calls throughout the game. All of them in crucial moments. 

If I could’ve bet before that drive started that Allen would advance the ball past midfield I would’ve put a large chunk of money on that. There was no way I believed we couldn’t get past the 50 yd line. That was a heck of a play call by Spags. 

[Sojourner]

16 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

It was Hollins, I kind of wonder if having two WR in the area made Kincaid hesitate for a second. Another thing I noticed from that angle is Allen could have scrambled left, but it would have required him to fully turn his back to the line and spin. In the split-second he had to decide, he probably assumed Spencer Brown would hold his block (which he did not). Man, shifting the protection or not Spencer Brown got beat straight up one-on-one, and Torrance got confused and let two guys past untouched. O-line really let us down there even if it wasn't ideal circumstances for them.

Two and sometimes three of our SP’s being in the general area of the field on routes is something I’ve noticed a lot this year. Is it just me?

 

Im not talking something like levels, flood or bunch concepts either. I’m talking at the end or later development of their routes, they’re in very close proximity to one another. Interestingly weird design as you’re drawing more coverage to one area allowing a better chance at a pass defense or interception. 
 

Regarding Spencer Brown, and I’m not a huge fan of grades, he was one of the better graded offensive players on a whole for that game. Rewatching it, I don’t agree with that. Spencer and our line got the better taken of them. Most of the time Karlaftis (had a heck of a game) wasn’t well blocked by our RT.
 

That last play too was Torrence, 2 guys infront of his face and they’re both getting to Josh. Even one of them getting picked up might be the difference. 
 

Our best asset all year on offense were borderline a dud this game unfortunately. 
 

 

Edited yesterday at 04:20 AM by Sojourner

[billieve420]

11 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

The plays that preceded the 4th down play really hurt as well. No James cook on the drive  at all . Absolutely stupid! Whose decision is that?? Then they get a a first down and Brady decides that its going to be all  passing even though they have plenty of time and TOs. The first and 2nd down play call were  f'ing inexcusable. 2 bad incompletions, no yards whatsover. This put the pressure on the 3rd down and though Cooper can catch, the screen to him was likely not going to get you a first down because he is slow and doesnt make people miss. So 3 bad calls in a row and an overabundance of caution lead to the high pressure 4th down situation.  Most of the blame is on Brady for that ending!

That whole series was atrocious by Brady. Do we have any plays where we throw past the sticks. Like who expects Cooper to get a first on that screen to begin with. Passing offense has been neutered to the point where even the simplest things are extra difficult. Dinking and dunking puts a lot of pressure for the QB to be perfect and I don’t think that is Allen’s game. Unfortunately it has come down to Josh needing to be perfect when it comes to the Chiefs. Just like last year Allen was good enough to win but not great enough to pull it off. Coaches on both sides of the ball have let team down.

[DapperCam]

3 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Two and sometimes three of our SP’s being in the general area of the field on routes is something I’ve noticed a lot this year. Is it just me?

 

Im not talking something like levels, flood or bunch concepts either. I’m talking at the end or later development of their routes, they’re in very close proximity to one another. Interestingly weird design as you’re drawing more coverage to one area allowing a better chance at a pass defense or interception. 
 

Regarding Spencer Brown, and I’m not a huge fan of grades, he was one of the better graded offensive players on a whole for that game. Rewatching it, I don’t agree with that. Spencer and our line got the better taken of them. Most of the time Karlaftis (had a heck of a game) wasn’t well blocked by our RT.
 

That last play too was Torrence, 2 guys infront of his face and they’re both getting to Josh. Even one of them getting picked up might be the difference. 
 

Our best asset all year on offense we’re borderline a dud this game unfortunately. 
 

 

In this case I think it's because the timing was off because the pass was rushed. Kincaid is supposed to continue his route to the sideline and upfield, Hollins is supposed to be open around where the ball landed (I think he might have been a little bit too deep in his route too). Kincaid needs to be a little bit more confident and just go grab the ball even if it's off script.