John Butler

[DrMaxPower]

This offseason, the Bills were forced into a choice - Butler or Babich. At the time, most seemed in favor of going with Babich.

 

The results have obviously not been good. The defense was awful and the secondary play in particular fell of a cliff. Likely the worst of the McD era. For the 1st time, we never had a new guy flash. Every other year, there was a late round pick or UDFA that played above their draft status and contributed. They did not work well as a unit at all and there was little visible player growth over the year.

 

Do we regret this decision? How much did we end up missing Butler? Secondary play is probably the area I know least about so curious to hear opinions but I personally feel like we need to clear out the DB coaches.

[colin]

what's butler doing now?

[MPL]

Certainly moving on from Hyde and Poyer didn't have anything to do with the drop-off in secondary play

[Captain Hindsight]

People predict a down year for the Bills. They responded by being a dropped pass from having a chance to go to the SB. Fans want to fire everybody.

 

Tale as old as time

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Captain Hindsight said:

People predict a down year for the Bills.

 

Very few here did. I did, I don't know if anyone else did

[Just Jack]

You say John Butler and my first thought was this guy...

 

 

[MJS]

Maybe provide some context with stats and rankings. My perception was not that the defense was terrible. More like it was average, but really good at getting the turnovers and splash plays.

[DrMaxPower]

Just now, MPL said:

Certainly moving on from Hyde and Poyer didn't have anything to do with the drop-off in secondary play

 

They were washed, as evident in the season Poyer had in Miami and Hyde doing nothing this year.

 

They had to move off them. The lack of continuity I'm sure hurt though but that's what coaches are for.

Just now, MJS said:

Maybe provide some context with stats and rankings. My perception was not that the defense was terrible. More like it was average, but really good at getting the turnovers and splash plays.

I felt that the turnovers and splash plays were what drug them to average.

 

When they weren't getting them they were below average IMO.

[Sojourner]

3 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

You say John Butler and my first thought was this guy...

 

 

Vintage Pro Bowl John Butler!

 

Hawaii here we come!!!

[DrMaxPower]

4 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

People predict a down year for the Bills. They responded by being a dropped pass from having a chance to go to the SB. Fans want to fire everybody.

 

Tale as old as time

I'm not a fire everybody, blame the coaches guy. I'm typically more patient than most. I'm also a Jimmies and Joes over X's and O's guy. I started a thread saying this loss was more on players coming up small than coaching.

 

I'm just not convinced we've got the right people in the DB room. It was likely the worst season of DB performance under McD.

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

This offseason, the Bills were forced into a choice - Butler or Babich. At the time, most seemed in favor of going with Babich.

 

The results have obviously not been good. The defense was awful and the secondary play in particular fell of a cliff. Likely the worst of the McD era. For the 1st time, we never had a new guy flash. Every other year, there was a late round pick or UDFA that played above their draft status and contributed. They did not work well as a unit at all and there was little visible player growth over the year.

 

Do we regret this decision? How much did we end up missing Butler? Secondary play is probably the area I know least about so curious to hear opinions but I personally feel like we need to clear out the DB coaches.

You mean like Bernard flashed last year? Who was the LBers coach? 

 

Or like in 2021 when Poyer finally was named All Pro? Wonder who the Safeties coach was then?

 

Both instances...it was Babich. Look, I'm not going to say Babich was great this year. He had some real rough games. But he got some seasoning and hopefully went through some personal growth. I do think maybe McDermott gave him a bit of a long leash and let him go. I kinda feel like maybe McDermott should have been a bit more hands on with him. My personal feeling without basis of what's know what happened behind the scenes. Maybe a bit more mentorship was needed. 

 

And you didn't see any growth in Bishop late in the year? Odd. 

[JohnNord]

Just now, DrMaxPower said:

This offseason, the Bills were forced into a choice - Butler or Babich. At the time, most seemed in favor of going with Babich.

 

The results have obviously not been good. The defense was awful and the secondary play in particular fell of a cliff. Likely the worst of the McD era. For the 1st time, we never had a new guy flash. Every other year, there was a late round pick or UDFA that played above their draft status and contributed. They did not work well as a unit at all and there was little visible player growth over the year.

 

Do we regret this decision? How much did we end up missing Butler? Secondary play is probably the area I know least about so curious to hear opinions but I personally feel like we need to clear out the DB coaches.

Talent was a bigger problem than scheme.  
 

There was below average play at DT and S for most of the season along with a lack of a pass rush.   
 

 

[Sojourner]

1 minute ago, DrMaxPower said:

I'm not a fire everybody, blame the coaches guy. I'm typically more patient than most. I'm also a Jimmies and Joes over X's and O's guy. I started a thread saying this loss was more on players coming up small than coaching.

 

I'm just not convinced we've got the right people in the DB room. It was likely the worst season of DB performance under McD.

100% on the players offensively and defensively. 

I put ownership on the offense more as they really were our key to success all season other than an unreliable defense reliant on turnovers. 
 

Two plays in literally 3 snaps lost the game. 
 

The Kincaid drop and then 2 snaps later on 2nd & 9, three of our defenders are wiped out of a play by Ju-Ju Smith-Shuster. Insane. 
 

That’s all on players. You aren’t coached to drop a pass and you certainly aren’t coaching 3 guys to get negated by a 210lb WR at the LOS. 
 

Coaching was a let down but a lot of poor execution on the field on both sides of the ball is where we end up on a long and miserable flight back to Buffalo. 

[JohnNord]

10 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Vintage Pro Bowl John Butler!

 

Hawaii here we come!!!

He means Jerry Butler

[MPL]

10 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

13 minutes ago, MPL said:

Certainly moving on from Hyde and Poyer didn't have anything to do with the drop-off in secondary play

 

They were washed, as evident in the season Poyer had in Miami and Hyde doing nothing this year.

 

They had to move off them. The lack of continuity I'm sure hurt though but that's what coaches are for.

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

Not saying they didn't have to move off of them. Moving off of them was the right move. But nobody was going to fill those two spots without a drop-off. 

[BillsFan130]

Babich was a disaster from the opening game 

 

I called him out multiple times and caught a lot of flack for it, but the guy got out coached time after time.

 

29th on 3rd downs- Just not good enough 

[DrMaxPower]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

You mean like Bernard flashed last year? Who was the LBers coach? 

 

Or like in 2021 when Poyer finally was named All Pro? Wonder who the Safeties coach was then?

 

Both instances...it was Babich. Look, I'm not going to say Babich was great this year. He had some real rough games. But he got some seasoning and hopefully went through some personal growth. I do think maybe McDermott gave him a bit of a long leash and let him go. I kinda feel like maybe McDermott should have been a bit more hands on with him. My personal feeling without basis of what's know what happened behind the scenes. Maybe a bit more mentorship was needed. 

 

And you didn't see any growth in Bishop late in the year? Odd. 

 

The choice in the offseason was Babich or Butler but Babich isn't who I'm referring to here. I liked Babich and agree, he helped develop talent in prior years. Choosing Babich as DC led Butler to leave and created a hole to be filled.

 

Jahmille Addae - CB coach.

Scott Booker - Nickel coach.

Joe Danna - Safeties.

 

Are these the right guys? That's my question.

 

Re: Bishop, I've said elsewhere that he did improve a bit and that he flashed a couple times in the game. That said, is anybody satisfied with what we got out of our RD 2 Safety this year? He was a disappointment overall.

 

[freddyjj]

Butler had no great NFL success in BUF or with HOU before.  McDermott grabbed him when he was fired by Bill Obrien (who he had worked with at PSU too) at end of 2017 season and he became DB coach (2018-2021) and then DB Coach/Passing Game Coordinator in 2022-2023 for Bills.  He was a high school team mate of McDermott in Philly which is why he likely was hired.  Even with that prior connection, McDermott chose Babich as his new D Coord over Butler.  So he parted ways with two coaches he had prior history with - interesting.

 

Butler spent 2024 with the Nebraska Cornhuskers and was just named 2025 D Coordinator for them..

Edited Monday at 09:41 PM by freddyjj

[DrMaxPower]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Butler had no great NFL sucess in BUF or with HOU before.  McDermott grabbed him when he and the entire Texans staff were fired at end of 2017 season and he became DB coach (2018-2021) and then DB Coach/Passing Game Coordinator in 2022-2023 for Bills.   He was a high school team mate of McDermott in Philly which is why he likely was hired.  Even with that prior connection, McDermott chose Babich as his new D Coord over Butler.

 

Butler spent 2024 with the Nebraska Cornhuskers and was just named 2025 D Coordinator for them..

We consistently had one of the best pass defenses in the league when he was here.

[freddyjj]

4 minutes ago, DrMaxPower said:

We consistently had one of the best pass defenses in the league when he was here.

Yes, maybe in total yards surrendered because BUF was easy to run on.  Real NFL QBs feasted on the Bills pass D since McD has been here.  The Bills pass D under McD historically only confounds mediocre or young QBs.