Overhauling the defense

[appoo]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

In your opinion. And what do you call "significant"? 

 

Chase Young signed a 1 year $8Mish contract. Doesn't have anything to do with Groot, either.

 

He's playing on a his option year next season which is in the $13M dollar range. So that already exceeds Clowney. He won't exceed that in a longer term AAV in my opinion. If they extend him I think it's in the 4yr/ $36m-40M area. 9-10 million for a quality rotational DE is good value. 

But are we not just tradining opinions here? I unhder stand your frustrated, but don't understand why you're taking them out on me? I try my best to not be sensationalist or super reactive. I occasionally fail. but I honestly wasn't going for that here. I tried my best to be objective of what was lacking on that side of the ball. It's what we've seen all season

1 minute ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

New DC bringing in an attacking 4-3.  I get a stud pass rusher, a bigger 1 tech, and I increase the size of the LB's. 

No one plays a true 4-3 any longer. 

[Comebackkid]

8 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

At the end of the day Im not even sure it's the bodies.  The scheme just has something lacking. The fact that KC scored the most points they've scored all year against us last night is insult to injury.  It always seems like the Bills get burned most of the time when they blitz, and this soft zone BS just gets eaten up by good QBs.  I'd hoped that McDoink would have learned something from the Rams game but alas, HIS SYSTEM CAN NEVER FAIL, IT CAN ONLY BE FAILED

i really think the soft zone is to limit the damage from players u dont have much trust in out there.   we did play zone with hyde and poyer but they were very 

quick to react and we had better cbs also.   ive watched cbs and safetys just stand there and watch the player come to them.   u could see it last night on 

certain plays.   they just seem to have zero spacial awareness of what the other team is doing on passing downs.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

We have good players on this defense. The problem is coaching. The problem is the scheme. We need a new voice from outside the building to take over the defense. Not a McDermott tree guy. Not even a zone guy. A brand new idea. Totally new voice. A guy that will change the attitude and the philosophy. I can’t take another year of this ***** soft zone Defense. I’d rather deal with a guy who is too aggressive and leaves himself open, then watch us give WRs 9 yards of free release. I want to make the other team uncomfortable. I want to set the tone and make other teams worried. I ***** hate the way we play on defense. Our offense has 5x the balls of our defense. McDermotts fingerprints need to be completely off this Defense or fire him.

Edited Tuesday at 04:13 AM by Brianmoorman4jesus

[Shortchaz]

I’m all for using every draft pick, either trading or drafting, on defense. The defense stunk this year (in the context of playoff quality defenses). 

[appoo]

1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

We have food players on this defense. The problem is coaching. The problem is the scheme. We need a new voice from outside the building to take over the defense. Not a McDermott tree guy. Not even a zone guy. A brand new idea. Totally new voice. A guy that will change the attitude and the philosophy. I can’t take another year of this ***** soft zone Defense. I’d rather deal with a guy who is too aggressive and leaves himself open, then watch us give WRs 9 yards of free release. I want to make the other team uncomfortable. I want to set the tone and make other teams worried. I ***** hate the way we play on defense. Our offense has 5x the balls of our defense. McDermotts fingerprints need to be completely off this Defense or fire him.

You want to play Ras Douglas, Benford, Hamlin, Rapp, the rookie safety, and Taron Johnson in an aggressive man scheme similar to the Chiefs? None of whom run unnder a 4.6? Well I guess Johnson might be a 4.5 guy. 

3 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

i really think the soft zone is to limit the damage from players u dont have much trust in out there.   we did play zone with hyde and poyer but they were very 

quick to react and we had better cbs also.   ive watched cbs and safetys just stand there and watch the player come to them.   u could see it last night on 

certain plays.   they just seem to have zero spacial awareness of what the other team is doing on passing downs.

More importnalty we played a lot of matchup zone, where we aligned zone, but once a player went into that zone, the DB then played him in a way that looked like man. 

 

You can do that when you had a healthy Tre White and Christian Benford as the team did heading into last season. 

 

Quite simply Damar Hamlin does not have the range to play deep safety in this league, and he was forced into that spot because of Rapp's injury. Hamlin can play box safety in this league. But not deep. 

[dorquemada]

8 minutes ago, appoo said:

Scheme is built around available resources. 

 

I think in a few months people will realize McDermott and Babich very much over achieved with this particular group. 

 

The defense fails in the same way every year in the playoffs.  The current regime has invested incredibly heavy on D, to the point of starving our superstar QB of a legit #1 receiver.  So that implies one of two things.  Either they suck at drafting & FA on defense, or, in fact, that their scheme will never win the big games regardless of personnel.  Frankly, I think it's both.  Im not saying they're terrible, Im saying they aren't in the same league as KC.  Ultimately, we're our own version of Regular Season MVP Lamar Jackson. We just get one game further

[GASabresIUFan]

While I agree that the D needs to get better and needs upgrades on the line and back-end,  I’ve seen more change this year in McD and Babich than ever during McD’s tenure.  We made adjustments to stop the run by going bigger and utilizing 3 LBs.  We blitzed more than ever and ran more man to man coverage.  This is a sign that McD is open to change and hopefully Beane responds by beefing up the DL, improving the pass rush and getting some DB help.  Some help is going come from the draft, but some will be FAs. 
 

The FA question will be does he go all in again on a big name or does he continue to the short-term deals.  
 

The Bills head into the draft with pick 30 and probably picks 57 (Hou) and 62.  At 30 I’d love for us to take WR Egbuka despite the D needs.  At 57 DE Shemar Stewart and at 62 DB Quincy Riley seem like good fits.  Riley is a press/zone DB with decent size and speed.

 

 

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

New DC bringing in an attacking 4-3.  I get a stud pass rusher, a bigger 1 tech, and I increase the size of the LB's. 

 

Come on now, do you really expect a new DC with a new scheme? You didn’t SAY fire McD, but…….I don’t see that happening with him. 

 

I am TOTALLY in on a mountain of a man to plug up the middle. The LBs get by better if the OL can’t get to them, but they do seem fragile.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, appoo said:

So as I see it the bills have 4 guys who are in good spots

 

1) Christian Benford 

 

his back to back concussions are terrifying and he should consider retirement. He looked scary being carted off.  
 

If he can come back full strength he’s a stud cover corner who can play both zone and man. The bills best cover play last night was Christian tracking Hollywood brown across the field and making a play. All-Pro potential with him

 

 2) Terel Bernard - He’s a bit undersized but love his instincts and perhaps better off at the will 

 

3) Ed Oliver. I actually thought he played well last night. He’s never going to be at a stud level on a consistent basis, but he’s generally been pretty good and consistentcy is his issue. But incredibly difficult to upgrade 

 

4) Taron Johnson. Kelce was awfully quiet wasn’t he? Don’t have to say much about him, and still in his prime 

 

I don’t know what think about Milano. Clearly 2 years off from playing has him struggling.  He’s also older now. My first thing is see if Dorian Williams can replace him in his 3rd year but that’s a high bar. You probably give Matt another year 
 

Groot, for the money he’ll command, is not worth it IMO - think you try and replace him in the draft and then also sign someone in free agency 

 

Rasul Douglas. Let him walk. As your second corner you don’t need a stud here. But you need someone better than Kair Elam. There’s gotta be a mid level FA out there 

 

Damar Hamlin - love his grit and mental side but I’d like to see him be a 3rd safety. You can actually find a really good safety capable of starting drafting at 30 or even somewhere in the 2nd round if the bills choose to move up. 
 

Taylor Rapp - on a pretty cheap contract, but he’s also a borderline starter.  You could mess around with playing Cole Bishop as your deep guy and Rapp as your closer to the LOS guy (where he’s more comfort anyways).  But if there’s someone in FA sitting there who’s an upgrade I’d grab him if it’s with a reason contract.

 

Daquon Jones. Clearly fading physically. But he’s someone you should be able to replace relatively straightforward in free agency. 

 

But if I’m prioritizing?

 

1) EDGE

2) EDGE

3) Corner

4) 1T

5) EDGE

6) Safety

7) Linebacker 

 

Offensively the bills are single stud WR away 

 

Rapp is still good along with Greg Rousseau , Bishop is progressing.

 

Milano is great but cant stay healthy.

 

Oliver is non existent most of the time.

 

We definitely need a new line , corner and a top WR with speed , wonder if tyreek hill would come here.

 

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Come on now, do you really expect a new DC with a new scheme? You didn’t SAY fire McD, but…….I don’t see that happening with him. 

 

I am TOTALLY in on a mountain of a man to plug up the middle. The LBs get by better if the OL can’t get to them, but they do seem fragile.  

Ok I'll run with that. No more rotation based DL, we need a 1 tech and a stud pass rusher.  And yes,the LB's need to get bigger and more powerful

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

Ok I'll run with that. No more rotation based DL, we need a 1 tech and a stud pass rusher.  And yes,the LB's need to get bigger and more powerful

 

They are built to be the Chiefs, as ironic as that might seem today. 

 

I do agree we need to address defending the power run game. Hell, that is what we are trying to do to everyone else with 6 OLinemen. 

[HamptonBillsfan]

4 hours ago, appoo said:

So as I see it the bills have 4 guys who are in good spots

 

1) Christian Benford 

 

his back to back concussions are terrifying and he should consider retirement. He looked scary being carted off.  
 

If he can come back full strength he’s a stud cover corner who can play both zone and man. The bills best cover play last night was Christian tracking Hollywood brown across the field and making a play. All-Pro potential with him

 

 2) Terel Bernard - He’s a bit undersized but love his instincts and perhaps better off at the will 

 

3) Ed Oliver. I actually thought he played well last night. He’s never going to be at a stud level on a consistent basis, but he’s generally been pretty good and consistentcy is his issue. But incredibly difficult to upgrade 

 

4) Taron Johnson. Kelce was awfully quiet wasn’t he? Don’t have to say much about him, and still in his prime 

 

I don’t know what think about Milano. Clearly 2 years off from playing has him struggling.  He’s also older now. My first thing is see if Dorian Williams can replace him in his 3rd year but that’s a high bar. You probably give Matt another year 
 

Groot, for the money he’ll command, is not worth it IMO - think you try and replace him in the draft and then also sign someone in free agency 

 

Rasul Douglas. Let him walk. As your second corner you don’t need a stud here. But you need someone better than Kair Elam. There’s gotta be a mid level FA out there 

 

Damar Hamlin - love his grit and mental side but I’d like to see him be a 3rd safety. You can actually find a really good safety capable of starting drafting at 30 or even somewhere in the 2nd round if the bills choose to move up. 
 

Taylor Rapp - on a pretty cheap contract, but he’s also a borderline starter.  You could mess around with playing Cole Bishop as your deep guy and Rapp as your closer to the LOS guy (where he’s more comfort anyways).  But if there’s someone in FA sitting there who’s an upgrade I’d grab him if it’s with a reason contract.

 

Daquon Jones. Clearly fading physically. But he’s someone you should be able to replace relatively straightforward in free agency. 

 

But if I’m prioritizing?

 

1) EDGE

2) EDGE

3) Corner

4) 1T

5) EDGE

6) Safety

7) Linebacker 

 

Offensively the bills are single stud WR away 

Nice analysis, agree with all your ratings. Rousseau is a tough one because he’s a a useful player, but with Beane’s incompetent apology we’re always behind the 8ball for acquisitions. Everything has to be done through the draft and on the cheap. It will be tough.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, appoo said:

So as I see it the bills have 4 guys who are in good spots

 

1) Christian Benford 

 

his back to back concussions are terrifying and he should consider retirement. He looked scary being carted off.  
 

If he can come back full strength he’s a stud cover corner who can play both zone and man. The bills best cover play last night was Christian tracking Hollywood brown across the field and making a play. All-Pro potential with him

 

 2) Terel Bernard - He’s a bit undersized but love his instincts and perhaps better off at the will 

 

3) Ed Oliver. I actually thought he played well last night. He’s never going to be at a stud level on a consistent basis, but he’s generally been pretty good and consistentcy is his issue. But incredibly difficult to upgrade 

 

4) Taron Johnson. Kelce was awfully quiet wasn’t he? Don’t have to say much about him, and still in his prime 

 

I don’t know what think about Milano. Clearly 2 years off from playing has him struggling.  He’s also older now. My first thing is see if Dorian Williams can replace him in his 3rd year but that’s a high bar. You probably give Matt another year 
 

Groot, for the money he’ll command, is not worth it IMO - think you try and replace him in the draft and then also sign someone in free agency 

 

Rasul Douglas. Let him walk. As your second corner you don’t need a stud here. But you need someone better than Kair Elam. There’s gotta be a mid level FA out there 

 

Damar Hamlin - love his grit and mental side but I’d like to see him be a 3rd safety. You can actually find a really good safety capable of starting drafting at 30 or even somewhere in the 2nd round if the bills choose to move up. 
 

Taylor Rapp - on a pretty cheap contract, but he’s also a borderline starter.  You could mess around with playing Cole Bishop as your deep guy and Rapp as your closer to the LOS guy (where he’s more comfort anyways).  But if there’s someone in FA sitting there who’s an upgrade I’d grab him if it’s with a reason contract.

 

Daquon Jones. Clearly fading physically. But he’s someone you should be able to replace relatively straightforward in free agency. 

 

But if I’m prioritizing?

 

1) EDGE

2) EDGE

3) Corner

4) 1T

5) EDGE

6) Safety

7) Linebacker 

 

Offensively the bills are single stud WR away 

 

Agree with pretty much all your comments except for two and for the same reason, money.

 

It's been stated many places would cost more to cut Milano this year than keep him.  He's here for 12025.  Plus as he got more games back his play did improve, certainly saw more improvement from him than we did when Miller first came back.

 

Groot is on 5th year option, have thee choices, let him play on 5th year option at cost of just under $14 mil

 

Cut him and take $14 mil cap hit

 

Sign him to new contract at much lower hit for the next couple of years, maybe add void years so could get rid of him then if needed. 

 

I also think if he can keep playing on his best side and not have to switch for Miller, he'd be better and also be better if had a better pass rusher on other side.

[JMM]

3 hours ago, appoo said:

For 90% of the McDermott era the defense has been fantastic 

 

This is the first year where it's been average. 

Um.. might want to check out the points given up in playoff losses the entire McDermott Era. Because when it comes down to it, that's all that really matters...

[Maine-iac]

I'll weigh in with my own version of "the problem is".  The problem is our safeties aged out and we haven't replaced them yet.  Against run first teams Rapp and Hamlin can hang on for dear life and know the scheme well enough to do their jobs.  The better the passing attack the more Rapp and Hamlin get exposed.  The more exotic we try to go the worse it gets.  In their day Poyer and Hyde were both capable of covering a wr on most plays since they both played CB at one point or another.  Zone maybe but man coverage and Rapp and Hamlin are going to get owned.   McD's defenses have always made it hard for even the best QB's but it was hard getting stops all season and I really think coverage was just not tight enough.  No coverage sacks and quick easy passes usually available so even a decent pass rush isn't going to hit home.  I'm not sold we have any coverage safeties on the roster.

[Sargent Hulka]

2 hours ago, appoo said:

I;d like to see him at Milano's Will spot

literally everyone in the AFC has lost to the Chiefs in the playoffs for every year except one since what, 2019 playoffs? So does that mean EVERYONE is average?

You give any one of those "average" teams Josh Allen as their starting QB, then I think that's a completely different stat line. And that's the difference: Bills have a once in a generation starting QB, but they are hamstrung by a HC and GM with obvious shortcomings who happened to luck into Allen.

Edited Monday at 11:48 PM by Sargent Hulka

[MarlinTheMagician]

We have 3 premium picks, but I think we need four on defense - I would not use any on offense.

 

1. Big butt 1 technique that can stuff the run and push the pocket; 

2. Edge;;

3. Corner; 

4. Safety

 

Need four defensive playmakers.  Plus a bunch more defensive depth at corner, linebacker and line.  

[DCofNC]

5 hours ago, bills6969 said:

100% on defense.  We need new edge rushers.

 

disagree on WR.  Look at the Chiefs, they don’t have a “stud WR” 

But they have speed

[RyanC883]

7 hours ago, appoo said:

So as I see it the bills have 4 guys who are in good spots

 

1) Christian Benford 

 

his back to back concussions are terrifying and he should consider retirement. He looked scary being carted off.  
 

If he can come back full strength he’s a stud cover corner who can play both zone and man. The bills best cover play last night was Christian tracking Hollywood brown across the field and making a play. All-Pro potential with him

 

 2) Terel Bernard - He’s a bit undersized but love his instincts and perhaps better off at the will 

 

3) Ed Oliver. I actually thought he played well last night. He’s never going to be at a stud level on a consistent basis, but he’s generally been pretty good and consistentcy is his issue. But incredibly difficult to upgrade 

 

4) Taron Johnson. Kelce was awfully quiet wasn’t he? Don’t have to say much about him, and still in his prime 

 

I don’t know what think about Milano. Clearly 2 years off from playing has him struggling.  He’s also older now. My first thing is see if Dorian Williams can replace him in his 3rd year but that’s a high bar. You probably give Matt another year 
 

Groot, for the money he’ll command, is not worth it IMO - think you try and replace him in the draft and then also sign someone in free agency 

 

Rasul Douglas. Let him walk. As your second corner you don’t need a stud here. But you need someone better than Kair Elam. There’s gotta be a mid level FA out there 

 

Damar Hamlin - love his grit and mental side but I’d like to see him be a 3rd safety. You can actually find a really good safety capable of starting drafting at 30 or even somewhere in the 2nd round if the bills choose to move up. 
 

Taylor Rapp - on a pretty cheap contract, but he’s also a borderline starter.  You could mess around with playing Cole Bishop as your deep guy and Rapp as your closer to the LOS guy (where he’s more comfort anyways).  But if there’s someone in FA sitting there who’s an upgrade I’d grab him if it’s with a reason contract.

 

Daquon Jones. Clearly fading physically. But he’s someone you should be able to replace relatively straightforward in free agency. 

 

But if I’m prioritizing?

 

1) EDGE

2) EDGE

3) Corner

4) 1T

5) EDGE

6) Safety

7) Linebacker 

 

Offensively the bills are single stud WR away 

 

love this write up.  I’d go corner, 1T, Edge, LB.  But that’s just based on likely draft availability.  We lacked consistent pressure on QB and run stuffers.  Depth at LB, S and CB is concerning. 

5 hours ago, 808 said:

For how much this team continues to invest in defense what makes you think they get it right this time? 
the defense has always gotten more resources but the results are what? Im not sure i trust them to put it together. Its year 8 or whatever it is. At what point do you stop letting these dudes cook?

 

agree with this also. Almost rather get offense right.  

 

Would love to see Tee Higgins here.  

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree with pretty much all your comments except for two and for the same reason, money.

 

It's been stated many places would cost more to cut Milano this year than keep him.  He's here for 12025.  Plus as he got more games back his play did improve, certainly saw more improvement from him than we did when Miller first came back.

 

Groot is on 5th year option, have thee choices, let him play on 5th year option at cost of just under $14 mil

 

Cut him and take $14 mil cap hit

 

Sign him to new contract at much lower hit for the next couple of years, maybe add void years so could get rid of him then if needed. 

 

I also think if he can keep playing on his best side and not have to switch for Miller, he'd be better and also be better if had a better pass rusher on other side.

 

so play him on 5th year?   That would be my inclination given these numbers.  Unless we need money and can get Tee Higgins 

Edited Tuesday at 12:54 AM by RyanC883

[Malazan]

It's amazing how good pass rushers who can also competently play the run make everyone else on the defense look better.