Maxx Crosby

[jaybeezee]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

If by having the most production as a whole of your drafted players since he has been GM, then yes, that is actually what his draft shows when you look at things analytically and not just throw out random hot takes you come up with in your mind that have little basis in reality.

Prove that your right and im wrong then!

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

Prove that your right and im wrong then!

 

There is a thread on here where a poster has painstakingly gone thru and created spreadsheets that add up AV of every draft class for every team on a yearly basis. Go check out that thread.

 

EDIT: I even found the link  so you don't have to search for it.

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Big Turk

[jaybeezee]

27 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

There is a thread on here where a poster has painstakingly gone thru and created spreadsheets that add up AV of every draft class for every team on a yearly basis. Go check out that thread.

 

EDIT: I even found the link  so you don't have to search for it.

 

 

 Proof is in the pudding. We have 2- pro bowlers on offense and none even close on defense. AJ, Boogie, Elam, Groot, Oliver have all been here multiple years and not one pro-bowl. 

 

The last probowler we drafted on defense was Tre, and Beane didnt draft him, so again, show me each and everyone of the players Beane has drafted stats, not these skewed numbers from PFR.

 

And my original argument is that he has failed in the early rounds of the draft since hes been here, outside of Josh and Cook, which are both on offense.

Edited 3 hours ago by jaybeezee

[Big Turk]

10 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

 Proof is in the pudding. We have 2- pro bowlers on offense and none even close on defense. AJ, Boogie, Elam, Groot, Oliver have all been here multiple years and not one pro-bowl. 

 

The last probowler we drafted on defense was Tre, and Beane didnt draft him, so again, show me each and everyone of the players Beane has drafted stats, not these skewed numbers from PFR.

 

And my original argument is that he has failed in the early rounds of the draft since hes been here, outside of Josh and Cook, which are both on offense.

 

If you think the Pro-Bowl is a justifiable way at determining how good a player is, then I am not sure why you are even bothering watching the game.  Might as well go watch something like checkers or tiddlywinks.

[jaybeezee]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

If you think the Pro-Bowl is a justifiable way at determining how good a player is, then I am not sure why you are even bothering watching the game.  Might as well go watch something like checkers or tiddlywinks.

Show me anyone of the guys on defense that you think is worth where they were drafted at stats.... Please. 

 

Just start with the ones I listed. Not your PFR grades. Here ill remind you... AJ, Elam, Boogie, Groot, Oliver, Bishop. These were all 1st and second round picks of Beane, and I would like you to name one of these guys that are any good for the draft spot they were taken.

 

Ed Oliver!

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

Show me anyone of the guys on defense that you think is worth where they were drafted at stats.... Please. 

 

Just start with the ones I listed. Not your PFR grades. Here ill remind you... AJ, Elam, Boogie, Groot, Oliver, Bishop. These were all 1st and second round picks of Beane, and I would like you to name one of these guys that are any good for the draft spot they were taken.

 

Ed Oliver!

 

Christian Benford. 6th round pick. F**k the pro-bowl, should have been an All-Pro.

 

Terrell Bernard. 3rd round pick. 

 

Groot at the end of the 1st round, is a pretty good pick.  

 

Bishop hasn't played enough yet, pretty sure he is going to be a very good player next year for us based on the way he improved as the year went on.

 

Again, the problem you have is that you for some reason think the Bills are the ONLY team in the NFL that doesn't get a great player every time they pick.  In fact, most teams don't.  Most teams don't even get good players or starters out of most of their picks.  Kansas City has missed on quite a few picks over the same period of time.

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[jaybeezee]

 

OK stat man. Here is your boy Beanes draft class since 2019. I list them all, but I want you to tell which defensive players hes picked in the first 3 rounds that are really good. I wont even add the 2024 draft here.

 

2019 Draft

 

 

2019 Class: DT Ed Oliver (No. 9 overall)= Just OK

OT Cody Ford (No. 38 overall) = Not on team/JAG

RB Devin Singletary (No. 74 overall)=  Not an Team/JAG

TE Dawson Knox (No. 96 overall) = Severely overpaid JAG

LB Vosean Joseph = Not even in the league I dont think

 

2020 Draft

2nd Round, No. 54 overall | A.J. Epenesa, DE, Iowa. ... = JAG

3rd Round, No. 86 overall | Zack Moss, RB, Utah. ...= Not on team/JAG

4th Round, No. 128 overall | Gabriel Davis, WR, UCF. ...Not on Team/JAG

5th Round, No. 167 overall | Jake Fromm, QB, Georgia. ... = Cant even get on a State Farm Commercial

 

2021 Draft

 

261Carlos Basham Jr. = LOL/Giants PS

393Spencer Brown = Good Pick

5161Tommy Doyle = LOL

6203Marquez Stevenson = LOL/Not in the league

 

2022 Draft

 

1Kaiir Elam= LOL

2James Cook= Good Pick

3Terrel Bernard = TBD on him, Slow and little

5Khalil Shakir = Good Pick 

6Matt Araiza= Hardly punted against us

6Christian Benford = Good pick for draft pick #

 

2023 Draft

 

1Dalton Kincaid= Jury is still out. Had great first season due to Diggs drawing all the attention.

2O'Cyrus Torrence = Good Pick

3Dorian Williams= TBD, prove that he is good or really good

5Justin Shorter= Hasnt seen the field

7Nick Broeker= Who??

7Alex Austin = Who??

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

 

OK stat man. Here is your boy Beanes draft class since 2019. I list them all, but I want you to tell which defensive players hes picked in the first 3 rounds that are really good. I wont even add the 2024 draft here.

 

2019 Draft

 

 

2019 Class: DT Ed Oliver (No. 9 overall)= Just OK

OT Cody Ford (No. 38 overall) = Not on team/JAG

RB Devin Singletary (No. 74 overall)=  Not an Team/JAG

TE Dawson Knox (No. 96 overall) = Severely overpaid JAG

LB Vosean Joseph = Not even in the league I dont think

 

2020 Draft

2nd Round, No. 54 overall | A.J. Epenesa, DE, Iowa. ... = JAG

3rd Round, No. 86 overall | Zack Moss, RB, Utah. ...= Not on team/JAG

4th Round, No. 128 overall | Gabriel Davis, WR, UCF. ...Not on Team/JAG

5th Round, No. 167 overall | Jake Fromm, QB, Georgia. ... = Cant even get on a State Farm Commercial

 

2021 Draft

 

261Carlos Basham Jr. = LOL/Giants PS

393Spencer Brown = Good Pick

5161Tommy Doyle = LOL

6203Marquez Stevenson = LOL/Not in the league

 

2022 Draft

 

1Kaiir Elam= LOL

2James Cook= Good Pick

3Terrel Bernard = TBD on him, Slow and little

5Khalil Shakir = Good Pick 

6Matt Araiza= Hardly punted against us

6Christian Benford = Good pick for draft pick #

 

2023 Draft

 

1Dalton Kincaid= Jury is still out. Had great first season due to Diggs drawing all the attention.

2O'Cyrus Torrence = Good Pick

3Dorian Williams= TBD, prove that he is good or really good

5Justin Shorter= Hasnt seen the field

7Nick Broeker= Who??

7Alex Austin = Who??

 

Again...you don't need to do this based on your "opinion" of them.  This is already done for you based on actual, REAL, FACTUAL data in comparison to all other players at their position group in the NFL. And what it says is that on balance, Beane has gotten the most value out of his draft classes on balance then any other GM in the NFL over his tenure. This isn't even including the few players like Levi Wallace that were UDFA's that started and aren't included in this.

 

You can argue it, you can say whatever you want, but the facts aren't on your side. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Big Turk

[jaybeezee]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Christian Benford. 6th round pick. F**k the pro-bowl, should have been an All-Pro.

 

Terrell Bernard. 3rd round pick. 

 

Groot at the end of the 1st round, is a pretty good pick.  

 

Bishop hasn't played enough yet, pretty sure he is going to be a very good player next year for us based on the way he improved as the year went on.

 

Again, the problem you have is that you for some reason think the Bills are the ONLY team in the NFL that doesn't get a great player every time they pick.  In fact, most teams don't.  Most teams don't even get good players or starters out of most of their picks.  Kansas City has missed on quite a few picks over the same period of time.

No My problem is I see the teams that are getting to the SB, Philly, SF, KC Cincy, GM's do a significantly better job drafting impact players, as well as Pro-bowlers on defense and offense. But our GM likes to trade with one of those teams even though the player that they pick always screws us over when it matters the most.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, jaybeezee said:

No My problem is I see the teams that are getting to the SB, Philly, SF, KC Cincy, GM's do a significantly better job drafting impact players, as well as Pro-bowlers on defense and offense. But our GM likes to trade with one of those teams even though the player that they pick always screws us over when it matters the most.

 

All that can be said to people like you was said best by James Harden without speaking a single word.

 

 

[jaybeezee]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

All that can be said to people like you was said best by James Harden without speaking a single word.

 

 

Time for that eye exam:

[SoonerBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, jaybeezee said:

 

OK stat man. Here is your boy Beanes draft class since 2019. I list them all, but I want you to tell which defensive players hes picked in the first 3 rounds that are really good. I wont even add the 2024 draft here.

 

2019 Draft

 

 

2019 Class: DT Ed Oliver (No. 9 overall)= Just OK

OT Cody Ford (No. 38 overall) = Not on team/JAG

RB Devin Singletary (No. 74 overall)=  Not an Team/JAG

TE Dawson Knox (No. 96 overall) = Severely overpaid JAG

LB Vosean Joseph = Not even in the league I dont think

 

2020 Draft

2nd Round, No. 54 overall | A.J. Epenesa, DE, Iowa. ... = JAG

3rd Round, No. 86 overall | Zack Moss, RB, Utah. ...= Not on team/JAG

4th Round, No. 128 overall | Gabriel Davis, WR, UCF. ...Not on Team/JAG

5th Round, No. 167 overall | Jake Fromm, QB, Georgia. ... = Cant even get on a State Farm Commercial

 

2021 Draft

 

261Carlos Basham Jr. = LOL/Giants PS

393Spencer Brown = Good Pick

5161Tommy Doyle = LOL

6203Marquez Stevenson = LOL/Not in the league

 

2022 Draft

 

1Kaiir Elam= LOL

2James Cook= Good Pick

3Terrel Bernard = TBD on him, Slow and little

5Khalil Shakir = Good Pick 

6Matt Araiza= Hardly punted against us

6Christian Benford = Good pick for draft pick #

 

2023 Draft

 

1Dalton Kincaid= Jury is still out. Had great first season due to Diggs drawing all the attention.

2O'Cyrus Torrence = Good Pick

3Dorian Williams= TBD, prove that he is good or really good

5Justin Shorter= Hasnt seen the field

7Nick Broeker= Who??

7Alex Austin = Who??

Overall, that is pretty ugly. 

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Again...you don't need to do this based on your "opinion" of them.  This is already done for you based on actual, REAL, FACTUAL data in comparison to all other players at their position group in the NFL. And what it says is that on balance, Beane has gotten the most value out of his draft classes on balance then any other GM in the NFL over his tenure. This isn't even including the few players like Levi Wallace that were UDFA's that started and aren't included in this.

 

You can argue it, you can say whatever you want, but the facts aren't on your side. 

In this factual data Ray Davis and Keon Coleman are worth more than James Cook and nearly worth more than Dion Dawkins this season. 

[jaybeezee]

Just now, SoonerBillsFan said:

Overall, that is pretty ugly. 

Not according to Turk! If you ask him, Beane just did a master class on drafting defensive studs that help us win SB's!

[jaybeezee]

Beane's Draft Picks come playoff time:

[julian]

Beane has drafted a lot of very good players, he hasn’t lucked out and had one of these late 1st rounders turn in Watt or McDuffie.

 

 Beane needs to eliminate the need for  draft luck and trade for an established great player(Crosby). Beane hit the home run with the Diggs trade, injury luck destroyed the Von signing, it’s time to go get it done via trade. 
 

Allen will turn 29 this year, hurry the fawk up.

[Sojourner]

5 minutes ago, julian said:

Beane has drafted a lot of very good players, he hasn’t lucked out and had one of these late 1st rounders turn in Watt or McDuffie.

 

 Beane needs to eliminate the need for  draft luck and trade for an established great player(Crosby). Beane hit the home run with the Diggs trade, injury luck destroyed the Von signing, it’s time to go get it done via trade. 
 

Allen will turn 29 this year, hurry the fawk up.

 

Both of you made fair points for either side of the argument and it all depends on personal perspective. It can be both good and bad. 
 

Will say though, if you’re relying on lucking out with your early draft picks, that’s not a tangible way to operate roster building. Once in a while you can luck out, once in a while you can have a bust. Collectively it needs to have moderate success if you’re wanting to have longevity as a winner. 

[3rdand12]

3 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

 

Both of you made fair points for either side of the argument and it all depends on personal perspective. It can be both good and bad. 
 

Will say though, if you’re relying on lucking out with your early draft picks, that’s not a tangible way to operate roster building. Once in a while you can luck out, once in a while you can have a bust. Collectively it needs to have moderate success if you’re wanting to have longevity as a winner. 

I have gone back and forth over McBeanes tenure over , is it the Player or is it the Coaching of Players as individuals as well as Team/Game play.

My jury is still out. McD has shuffled a good few Coaches out after his first year.

 

Prolly both.

 Even the thought of INVESTING into Maxx Crosby scares me after Von's Injury.

Draft better

 FA ? Don't mortgage the farm again like Miller deal

15 minutes ago, julian said:

Beane has drafted a lot of very good players, he hasn’t lucked out and had one of these late 1st rounders turn in Watt or McDuffie.

 

 Beane needs to eliminate the need for  draft luck and trade for an established great player(Crosby). Beane hit the home run with the Diggs trade, injury luck destroyed the Von signing, it’s time to go get it done via trade. 
 

Allen will turn 29 this year, hurry the fawk up.

Torn. Can't really argue against your pov for sure

[JGMcD2]

Copy and paste from another thread because it’s just clowns regurgitating the same *****, so maybe I should too:

 

PRO BOWL?! You're seriously citing the PRO BOWL? Russell Wilson was named to the Pro Bowl this year - what a credible way to evaluate his performance. 

 

You're flat-out wrong about Buffalo. I can name players too! CB Taron Johnson—All-Pro—taken in the 4th round in 2019. "D captain Nick Bolton"? How about D captain Terrel Bernard, whom Buffalo found in the 3rd round in 2022. Spencer Brown (3rd round), James Cook (2nd round) and Christian Benford (6th round). Should I continue? Because I can.

 

Now, let's not even start on Trey Smith. He was a consensus top-3 round talent, but teams took him off their boards due to medical concerns. Want to tell me how medical evaluations work in pro sports? Be my guest—I promise one of us actually knows, and the other doesn’t.

 

You want to call Greg Rousseau a reach at 30? Cool. What a wild way to evaluate someone who was a top-10 edge rusher in 2024. Speaking of "reaches," how’s Kingsley Suamataia doing? Didn’t he get benched for three different LT options? What’s Felix Anudike-Uzomah up to? His first two seasons are worse than Boogie Basham’s. But go ahead, hype up drafting Skyy Moore and Clyde Edwards-Helaire while you're at it. 
 

Fans like me can think rationally instead of spinning narratives to cope with not being Kansas City. Newsflash: I want to win too. I actually agree—good is the enemy of great. But that’s not the issue here. The real conversation? All-Time is the enemy of great. That’s the part you just can’t comprehend.

[Augie]

The Chiefs beat everybody. 

 

I hope Philly gets them and the decline begins. Travis is aging, I hope he enjoys a lovely retirement asap. 

 

Unfortunately, Chris Jones is younger than I thought. A guy like that would be very nice to have. 

 

.

Edited 1 hour ago by Augie