Coaching Poll

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Just make Brady the HC and hire a DC from outside the organization. Hire a DC with head coaching experience to help Brady get ready. It’s a no brainer to me. I don’t even want to just make McDermott look bad. Offer him a soft landing FO job or something. You just got to get his Defense out of the equation somehow. It’s not fair to josh. It’s not fair to any of us. It’s like the defense when Chan gailey was here. It’s a waste of ***** time 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

It has seemed to me for some time that Coach McDermott wants to win "his way" with "his guys"  and his is less interested in simply finding a way to win.  

 

That's my take as well.  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

All 3 playoff games we gave up easy TDs on the first drive. That’s us having zero plan going into the game and just getting exposed. 

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Just hire Belichick. He loves a Josh, he has two buyout options. Enough of this MIDermott bull####.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

So part of the answer to that is they run the most extra OL and still a fair amount of legit two tight end (Kincaid and Knox) and when you do that it is your slot receiver that suffers snaps wise. Shakir can't play wide. He is slot only. While his overall snap count is barely over 50% he played 72.5% of the Bills passing snaps that Josh Allen took (i.e. excluding week 18 with Mitch) and if you remove the passing snaps in the game Khalil missed at Houston he is actually at 76.5% for the year which is right in the range you'd want. I disagree that he could have been a top 10 or top 5 receiver though. Shakir is who he is. A nice complimentary player. The numbers he put up this year - 800 yards 4 touchdowns - that is basically who he is IMO. 

 

On why Hollins had the highest snap count among our receivers, that's easy. He plays outside so doesn't lose snaps to Anderson and/or Kincaid and Knox and he was the only receiver healthy all year and who played all 20 games (17 regular season and 3 post). He is actually slightly behind Shakir on passing down usage in games with with Josh at 67%. 

 

I don't think the rotation is about everybody eats (with the exception of Cooper who they definitely only ran a limited package for) so much as it is about the Bills being one of the more formationally diverse offenses in the league this year. 

 

Well, there's a whole lot to debate in this discussion, but allow me to point out that Shakir has and has had an incredibly high catch%, it may even be the highest in the NFL over the past two seasons.  Slot or not, why not play him more?  

 

He's averaged 5.9 targets and 4.8 receptions and despite not having two WRs ahead of him for targets this year, his increase in production was only marginal.  

 

Either way, you're posing that if his targets increased by say 3, that we wouldn't see an associated increase percentage wise in catches and yards resulting in about 1,300 yards and 6 or 7 TDs which would put him in the top-5 WRs yardage wise?  Seriously?  

 

Keenan Allen was a slot receiver under Lombardi in LA and he averaged just about that with Herbert throwing him the ball.  So it seems as if the basis for your posing this is flawed.  Even marginal general receivers such as Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, who weren't even the #1 targets in NE under Brady posted incredibly better numbers than Shakir has.  

 

Otherwise there are a number of slot receivers that have put up mote, notably more in some cases, and without Allen throwing to them.  That's our primary QB-WR connection, Allen-to-Shakir.  

 

 

[Billever76]

 JOSH ALLEN deserves better than what he has been given..now if that's on the coach (I believe it is) or bean or even his supporting teammates in big moments of big games (playoffs mainly) something needs changed to get us over the hump...... insanity is to be content to keep running it back yr after yr after yr when we have seen our ceiling under current leadership 

56 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

All 3 playoff games we gave up easy TDs on the first drive. That’s us having zero plan going into the game and just getting exposed. 

Also we should have came out on that opening series and been aggressive...we were flat..allot of this game once again falls on COACHING 

[GunnerBill]

52 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, there's a whole lot to debate in this discussion, but allow me to point out that Shakir has and has had an incredibly high catch%, it may even be the highest in the NFL over the past two seasons.  Slot or not, why not play him more?  

 

He's averaged 5.9 targets and 4.8 receptions and despite not having two WRs ahead of him for targets this year, his increase in production was only marginal.  

 

Either way, you're posing that if his targets increased by say 3, that we wouldn't see an associated increase percentage wise in catches and yards resulting in about 1,300 yards and 6 or 7 TDs which would put him in the top-5 WRs yardage wise?  Seriously?  

 

Keenan Allen was a slot receiver under Lombardi in LA and he averaged just about that with Herbert throwing him the ball.  So it seems as if the basis for your posing this is flawed.  Even marginal general receivers such as Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, who weren't even the #1 targets in NE under Brady posted incredibly better numbers than Shakir has.  

 

Otherwise there are a number of slot receivers that have put up mote, notably more in some cases, and without Allen throwing to them.  That's our primary QB-WR connection, Allen-to-Shakir.  

 

 

 

Allen was not just a slot he was a move reciever played outside and in. 

 

My argument on Shakir is two fold - we have seen that as his volume increased his impact reduced. There is obviously a levelling off effect at some point there but no I don't accept you just increase targets and the numbers jump in proportion. The reason for that is the type of targets you can feed him are limited. He is not a great route runner, so you just have to find him spaces - which are ordinarily underneath - and get the ball in his hands. Welker and Edelman were technician route runners. Khalil isn't that. I have said it before the guy he reminds me of is Austin Eckler just playing slot rather than receiving back. 

[DrMaxPower]

So far the poll is pretty much 50-50...

 

I've been a defender. I think people underestimate how difficult it will be to get an upgrade. That said, there has to be a limit. We can't continue to have the defense be a total no-show in every big playoff game. They've been comically bad.

 

Coming into the year, I had it as a reload. Thought we'd be competitive, but too much roster attrition and dead cap to be a true contender. In the end, I think that's what played out. Baltimore, KC, Eagles, Lions are all a step ahead. We needed to play A games and catch some breaks to beat them.

 

They need a major talent infusion on defense. The DL is average at best and the secondary is flat out bad outside Benford. They also need a philosophical change because it's patently obvious this isn't working in the games that matter. I hope McD has that in him.

 

McD gets next year and then we'll see. If the defense is our playoff albatross again, it's time. Blink and Josh will be 30.

Edited Monday at 08:35 PM by DrMaxPower

[PBF81]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Allen was not just a slot he was a move reciever played outside and in. 

 

My argument on Shakir is two fold - we have seen that as his volume increased his impact reduced. There is obviously a levelling off effect at some point there but no I don't accept you just increase targets and the numbers jump in proportion. The reason for that is the type of targets you can feed him are limited. He is not a great route runner, so you just have to find him spaces - which are ordinarily underneath - and get the ball in his hands. Welker and Edelman were technician route runners. Khalil isn't that. I have said it before the guy he reminds me of is Austin Eckler just playing slot rather than receiving back. 

 

Allen was primarily a slot under Staley.  He had over 1,100 yards one of those seasons and apart from injuries was on pace for about the same the following season.  

 

Shakir has that potential.  We'll have to disagree on his route-running, but what's indisputable is his possession receiver traits and skills.  

 

Either way, it's folly to suggest that if his targets were increased, that his approximately 80% catch% wouldn't hold and that his stats/performance would not increase proportionally.  

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

I’m of the belief that 90% of NFL caliber coaches can accomplish what we have with prime Josh Allen. McDermott gets credit for building the culture and stabilizing the organization. He was a great guy to build the program. At this point, I’m more convinced than ever that if they are ever going to get over the hump someone else has to be the guy. I often use the Dwayne Casey and Nick Nurse example because it fits. 

Edited Tuesday at 10:07 AM by Kirby Jackson

[<bills4life>]

1 hour ago, DrMaxPower said:

So far the poll is pretty much 50-50...

 

I've been a defender. I think people underestimate how difficult it will be to get an upgrade. That said, there has to be a limit. We can't continue to have the defense be a total no-show in every big playoff game. They've been comically bad.

 

Coming into the year, I had it as a reload. Thought we'd be competitive, but too much roster attrition and dead cap to be a true contender. In the end, I think that's what played out. Baltimore, KC, Eagles, Lions are all a step ahead. We needed to play A games and catch some breaks to beat them.

 

They need a major talent infusion on defense. The DL is average at best and the secondary is flat out bad outside Benford. They also need a philosophical change because it's patently obvious this isn't working in the games that matter. I hope McD has that in him.

 

McD gets next year and then we'll see. If the defense is our playoff albatross again, it's time. Blink and Josh will be 30.

Agree with everything u said with the exception of getting next year. 

[HappyDays]

I went with one more year, for a couple reasons.

 

First is that I said I would lay off McDermott if he defied expectations and got this team to the AFCCG. To me that was the floor I needed to see from him and I won't go back on my word despite feeling a certain kind of way about him right now.

 

Second is that the two ideal candidates were Vrabel and Johnson, and they're now both off the board. In fact if one of them were still available I'd be willing to break from reason #1. But as it stands there are no obvious remaining candidates. A year from now there very well could be.

 

The disclaimer to all this is that when I say one more year I really do mean one more year. And for me that applies to both McDermott and Beane. They're a package deal now. I'm not interested in playing the blame game - their respective individual failures are obvious.

 

This offseason they can get a lot of bad cap space off the books and they have a good amount of draft capital to work with. The full coaching staff is coming back (hopefully except for Smiley). The core group of players will all be back. So zero excuses next year. Get a Super Bowl appearance or let's give someone else a try as Allen enters his 30s. I think that is more than reasonable.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

If I was going to make a theoretical change of our HC, I would explore a trade with the Steelers to get Tomlin.

 

I'm really not certain if joking or not.  

 

Well if it were up to me, they'd be no need to trade for him as I think he should be fired. 

 

First off the biggest knock on McD applies to  Tomlin, he's also a defensive minded coach.  But I think at this point he's a defensive minded coach who had success 10 to 15 years ago, when you could get away with that more as few great QB's in league so could just run the ball and win with great defense. 

[NewEra]

I’d place my vote for:  change is high risk-  I doubt anyone currently available would be able to beat Reid and Spags- so I’d keep McD another season.  I would have fired him for Ben Johnson

 

It’s not like we’re losing to meh teams in the playoffs.  We’re losing to the best team in the league 4 out of 5 years (and Burrow the other).  It’s a tough road in the AFC

[BillsVet]

In a sane world, TPegs would consider the team is moving into a new stadium and whether McBeane are the ones to produce a SB win with Josh as that approaches.

 

Or, if the playoff losses continue another shoe drops that forces TPegs to choose.  

 

Because everything that happened this year was as the HC wanted it...the coordinators and especially their version of complementary football including Josh playing as McD wanted within a balance offense.  

 

They failed the final exam and it's clear McD ain't that good of a test taker.  

[billsfan714]

Its funny how Sean never minds poking in the offense and changes that need made but his D never does.   Small, bend but dont break, averages giving up 33 points a game in our playoff losses.   

[Mister Defense]

11 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

Come on, Chaos!  You're better than that...

Such an awful poll, options, clearly designed to be ultra negative, with comically worded choices for those who feel differently than you.

You have created a hater thread here, and that is what it will become.

 

10 hours ago, Chaos said:

i dont understand your point.  Two of the eight options are for retaining the coach.  One of the two for removing the coach (currently the most popular selection ) includes "coach is good"

 

8 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

This is completely false. The opposite, is true, actually. 5 positive options to keep Sean. 2 neutral versions to get rid of him. Nothing that actually reflects what half of this board is thinking. Get rid of him now before he wastes another year of Josh's prime.

 

 

The options for those supporting McDermott are poorly worded, and biased, with almost all of them making those choosing those options look ridiculous, pathetic. But those doing so only did so because there are no good options, not because they are so.  An extremely poor, loaded poll,  considerably undermining its validity.

 

Look closely at the pro McDermott options:

 

1. “its fine, leave it alone”:

 

The idea and wording sound weak and pathetic less than one day after an important loss, as if the state of the team itself is perfectly fine, when clearly the Bills need some changes, additions, to take the next step.  Almost no one TODAY would say, “it’s fine”, including McDermott—especially him.

 

 

2. “Please don't change the coach, we will return to the drought era:”

 

Sounds even more pathetic than the first option, ignorant and weak, first groveling (to who?) and then the illogical phrase at the end, which no one thinks will happen with this ownership, GM, and Allen.

 

If the goal is to make posters like weak, pathetic, this is also a great option. 

 

That is no shade on those choosing this option, as there are no good options for those who think McDermott is an excellent coach. That is the problem with this poll.

 

3.  “Change is high risk, we could very well return to the drought era”

 

For the reasons this too is an awful option,  read the previous analysis of the 2nd option.  Just as bad, if not worse here. Weak minded idea and then the same nonsense no one believes will happen. 

 

 

5.  “I thought this year was a rebuild, give coach 1 more year to finish the job.”

 

Again, the pathetic factor here.  Please, give him one more year, he will do better next year.  For the coach whose team made it to the AFC Championship game and lost to the two time champions 32-29.

 

6.  “Extend coach now, he is the main reason for our success.”

 

The morning after they lose a huge game, and in general, is not the time to talk about extending a contract that ends after THREE(?) more seasons. His contract expires after the 2027 season. Makes no sense—and again, so would make anyone picking that choice seem ridiculous, dumb even, pathetic.

 

 

 

Again, those picking the above options are not the problem, as they had no choice but to pick one of the awful options if they are a supporter of McDermott and wanted to participate.

 

But I also do not believe that the poll was intentionally designed by Chaos to give those supporting our coach awful options.  Rather, the negative mindset of the creator is crystal clear and is at the base of it all. It dramatically undermines the poll and so one can ever look at the results and make any conclusions. The fact that this very poor poll was posted less than one day after the Bills lost the AFC Championship game obviously compounds the problem.  Not objective all.

 

I was going to vote, then re-read the options and saw how loaded and biased they were. I passed—and I believe many posters did the same. Or, did what I almost did, and choose the best awful option.

 

 

 

 

[colin]

No way dude, this poll is solid.

 

There should have been an option that read: "move early into the new stadium and don't tell the entire front office and just hire a whole new one and see how long it takes to notice.". I think MCD would show up to an empty building for a week before he bothered to make adjustments.

 

Even for the people who like him, how is it sane for a coach who has the best QB and is supposed to be too good to fire for fear of regression trotting out these dog water assistants?  Smiley blows, we didn't have enough guys for a pint block vs Houston!  We had the 12 men loss to Denver, like what kind of HC has people like that?  And Dorsey and Brady and babbich, no one had anything to say about these goofs because they've never done jack.

[Goin Breakdown]

Other- Coaching change is High risk; however Josh is the reason we're winning games while coaching is a big reason we're losing the big games 

 

Also if the process we are supposed to trust is THIS then it sucks and my trust is running very thin. Give him another year, sure, one more and then If things don't change I'm done giving the benefit of the doubt. 

Edited Tuesday at 02:28 AM by Goin Breakdown

[Mister Defense]

28 minutes ago, colin said:

No way dude, this poll is solid.

 

There should have been an option that read: "move early into the new stadium and don't tell the entire front office and just hire a whole new one and see how long it takes to notice.". I think MCD would show up to an empty building for a week before he bothered to make adjustments.

 

Even for the people who like him, how is it sane for a coach who has the best QB and is supposed to be too good to fire for fear of regression trotting out these dog water assistants?  Smiley blows, we didn't have enough guys for a pint block vs Houston!  We had the 12 men loss to Denver, like what kind of HC has people like that?  And Dorsey and Brady and babbich, no one had anything to say about these goofs because they've never done jack.

 

After reading your  post it does make sense that you would think this is a good, objective poll..

 

As you clearly are very level headed and objective when it comes to our hair on fire disastrous head coach and his entire coaching staff. Makes me surprised they won any games this year, last, and the year before, let alone more games than any team in the league other than the Chiefs over the last 5 years.

 

Therefore I think Two Bills Drive should appoint you as the Official Arbiter of  Objectivity for All Polls on McDermott in the future. (I may do a poll on this.)

 

I am hoping that the OP poster adds in your poll option above, see bold, to make crystal clear just how objective and rational all of this is...