Anyone see the writeup about Toyota

[Bill from NYC]

That is so far from the truth I don't even know where to begin. 

 

I hate to burst your view of the evil insurance company, but every time we raise rates it is to offset the rising cost of healthcare.

 

You say a trip to the doctor can impact a family in a big way, well you're right. But who sets those prices? It's the doctors, not the insurance company. Why do doctors set those rates? Because that is the cost to do business for them. Trained professionals, expensive equipment, expensive pharmacuticals. Everytime they raise their rates, we have to either absorb the cost are pass it along through rate increases or high copays.

 

You want to point a finger, point it at the drug companies. Point it at technological advances. You want the healthcare rates of 20 years ago then expect to get the care of 20 years ago. All of these technologies cost millions to develop. Common sense tells you in the end, the cost will be passed onto the end user.

 

Point a finger at your neighbors too. Everytime a person goes to the doctor for a little cough it costs money. Everytime a guy goes to the emergency room for a twisted ankle instead of their PCP it wastes hundreds. Proper utilization is lost on most people which drives up the cost for everyone.

 

This is why you will soon see American health insurance move towards CDHP (Consumer Driven Healthcare.) You'll have a pool of money for claims allocation for routine services. You'll be able to do what you want with it, but when it runs out tough luck. You'll get the bill for exactly what the services cost and most people will finally realize how expensive healthcare is. Maybe then people will wise up and improper utilization will lessen, helping to off-set the rising costs.

 

So sorry, insurance companies aren't making millions and they aren't getting rich off your healthcare. Most are not for profit organizations. Every penny that comes in goes towards your healthcare whether it be through administrative cost or your claims.

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You make some valid points, but let us not try to absolve the insurance companies of any blame.

Several doctors have told me that they get bonuses for NOT sending patients to specialists, and if they do this too often they will be kicked out of the HMO.

Doctors also have to hire expensive help merely to argue with insurance company clerks about allowing procedures that their patients need.

Frankly, I would rather a doctor make decisions about my health than an HMO secretary. As I said earlier, there is plenty7 of blame to go around.

[kegtapr]

You make some valid points, but let us not try to absolve the insurance companies of any blame.

Several doctors have told me that they get bonuses for NOT sending patients to specialists, and if they do this too often they will be kicked out of the HMO.

Doctors also have to hire expensive help merely to argue with insurance company clerks about allowing procedures that their patients need.

Frankly, I would rather a doctor make decisions about my health than an HMO secretary. As I said earlier, there is plenty7 of blame to go around.

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I will certianly yield that many insurance companies do not have the best practices. In fact, the folks in Upstate NY are lucky to have some of the best rated in the nation. I can only speak for this area as I am well versed in it.

 

I have never heard of a HMO in this area that hands out bonuses or kick out providers based on what you outlined. If this practice did happen in NY and the state ever caught wind of it you can bet that a hefty fine would be coming. I've seen very large state fines for less then what you have pointed out.

 

I can also assure you a "HMO secretary" is not making a decision about your healthcare. The people who make utilization management decisions are trained doctors and nurses, usually ones who have worked as a provider in the community for many years.

 

Like I said, I can only speak about upstate and western NY insurance companies. Some of what you say may be true in other areas, but that is not what is driving up the cost in our region.

[spidey]

So American car makers are being run into the ground over all the union perks,

So are you absolving GM's management from having anything to do with their plight?  Read some topics on GM management and golden parachutes and you'll see what I'm getting at.  (Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that the unions are certainly part of the problem as well.)

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People blame Unions alot however seem to want to overlook what senior management in large corporations are doing. Why does the CEO need to have a salary of 10M with stock options out the wazoo, full 100% salary on leaving company along with full medical coverage while his high tech workers are having benefits trimmed, no pay increases, no stock option or ones that are worthless and retirees benefits trimmed annually? Wake up folks GREED that started in the ME generation that elected Reagan with his tax cuts for everyone is what is running and ruining many American Businesses and many of these dont have Unions to at least be a watchdog.

[Alaska Darin]

People blame Unions alot however seem to want to overlook what senior management in large corporations are doing.    Why does the CEO need to have a salary of 10M with stock options out the wazoo, full 100% salary on leaving company along with full medical coverage while his high tech workers are having benefits trimmed, no pay increases, no stock option or ones that are worthless and retirees benefits trimmed annually?   Wake up folks GREED that started in the ME generation that elected Reagan with his tax cuts for everyone is what is running and ruining many American Businesses and many of these dont have Unions to at least be a watchdog.

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Yeah, it's only greed at the executive level - nowhere else.

 

Remember when union leaders didn't live in mansions, wear Armani, or travel in Lehr jets?

[KD in CA]

People blame Unions alot however seem to want to overlook what senior management in large corporations are doing.    Why does the CEO need to have a salary of 10M with stock options out the wazoo, full 100% salary on leaving company along with full medical coverage while his high tech workers are having benefits trimmed, no pay increases, no stock option or ones that are worthless and retirees benefits trimmed annually?  Wake up folks GREED that started in the ME generation that elected Reagan with his tax cuts for everyone is what is running and ruining many American Businesses and many of these dont have Unions to at least be a watchdog.

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I don't disagree that senior management comp is excessive in many cases, but there are two things that most people overlook when making this argument.

 

1) $10MM is a drop in the buckett if you are GM. Even if you cut that guy's salary in half, you haven't changed the company's situation one iota. Thus, it is not a solution to the company's financial woes.

 

2) People who aren't even low level managers making judgements about senior level executives at huge companies is laughable. Most people have no idea what that kind of position requires. Being CEO is a 24x7x365 job. They don't leave their work problems at the office like most other people can. But a few stories about Dennis Kozlowski's million dollar birthday parties is all some people need to hear to conclude that all CEOs do nothing but bang their secretary and have 3 martini lunches everyday. But it's just not the case.

 

Also, I just have a fundamental problem with the "he doesn't NEED that much" arguement. We hear the same nonsense about tax cuts that people didn't "need". It's not about need, it's about what employer and employee agreed upon. It's about the people who PAID taxes in the first place getting the tax cuts. This is a friggin socialist country.

[CookieG]

As far as the health care costs go, one of the big problems with GM is the way they extend the benefits to retirees.  That, plus the $1B extra in health care costs that the Union health care costs over the health care that is provided to the white collar employees...

An interesting story about GM's efforts to tame health care costs here:

http://www.freep.com/money/business/gmpharm27e_20050627.htm

Factoid: over $1500 per vehicle is paid to cover health care costs...

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Do you know how recent the cost per vehicle figures are? I'm wondering because GM''s sales are off about 15-17% this year, so there would be obviously fewer vehicles to factor into the cost-per-vehicle approach. Nonetheless, the 5.2 billlion they pay in health costs is staggering.

 

But I think health care costs are only a part of their problem. Both GM and Ford concentrated their efforts in the more profitable SUV-Light truck market, and now they've seen it dip in popularity.

 

It reminds me of the 1970's, when the US makers were all making muscle cars with huge engines, and then all got caught in the '73 energy crisis. Let's hope they can pull themselves out of it faster than they did in the '70's.

[Alaska Darin]

Do you know how recent  the cost per vehicle figures are?  I'm wondering because GM''s sales  are off about 15-17% this year, so there would be obviously fewer vehicles to factor into the cost-per-vehicle approach.  Nonetheless, the 5.2 billlion they pay in health costs is staggering.

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It's about $1500 per vehicle produced in the US from what I've read.