Josh choked tonight

[DCofNC]

He was rushing and playing tight, he didn’t let things develop on his designed runs and made a lot of sketchy passes.  Overall, it was a game I would have expected more from Lamar than him, but it is what it is.

[Billsatlastin2018]

11 hours ago, dayman said:

Love Josh. But let’s just call it what it was—choke job tonight. If he was great we go to the superbowl. He was far from great.

Allen guided them to FOUR TD marches! Making it one of the 6 Losers in the 85-6 (4TDs + 0 Turnovers Playoff record since 1972!

 

* Of course, a stone hands TE could have caught a 4th Down desperation toss on the Chiefs 33 yard Line! 

* A referee could not have overturned a critical 4th Down sneak for a First Down!

* Or confirmed a critical 3rd Down Chiefs catch where the ball hits the ground!

I trust that those fentanyl hits are great; because this take was pathetic… pathetically wrong, wrong and wrong!

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Lots of chatter on the radio this am--MVP candidate with 3;33 to go, ball on their 30 and can't cross midfield on a do or die possession......

 

he didn't though

Until there is an upgrade of talent around Allen there won't be any Super Bowl's. I have come to the conclusion that it's really that simple.  Compare what surrounds Allen on both sides of the ball to what surrounded Kelly during the SB years.  The difference is glaring.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

39 minutes ago, WNYFAN1 said:

He chucked that up as a prayer. Shocking it got as close as it did.

Na I think he knew that was the right read and thought he could buy some extra time to make sure it came open if he rolled right but the corner blitz came from that side so he reset and threw it to the spot. Don’t really think it was ‘luck’ at all…absolutely perfect throw that only his guy could get he just didn’t get it 

 

he wasn’t just wildly throwing a prayer hoping someone was there lol 

Edited Monday at 04:06 PM by Generic_Bills_Fan

[PBF81]

11 hours ago, Another Fan said:

He started off shaky but no I would not say he choked.

 

I would say it felt the like a lot of this game and the 2nd half of the Ravens game he was largely neutralized.....  to which I blame that on the play calling 

 

The offense didn't seem prepared for what KC threw at them.  

 

It makes one wonder whether, and since Reid knew that the likelihood of facing us in the playoffs was high, that in our first game he didn't bring all the varying pressures that he could, saving some looks for the playoffs.  But the Chiefs must have done similar in some other games, that the staff should have caught and figured out.  But both the offense and the defense looked a little overwhelmed in the first half, particularly the early going.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Until there is an upgrade of talent around Allen there won't be any Super Bowl's. I have come to the conclusion that it's really that simple.  Compare what surrounds Allen on both sides of the ball to what surrounded Kelly during the SB years.  The difference is glaring.

 

 

 

It's also a glaring difference between Josh Allen and Jim Kelly...

[C.Biscuit97]

Allen wasn’t even close to one of the reasons this team lost. But it’s crazy that some think he is infallible. He had 4 turnover worthy plays in the first half that could have resulted in a blowout. 
 

but he’s a baller and almost was good enough to take down one of the great teams of our generation 🤮 

[Matt_In_NH]

Upon reflection, it is true Josh did not play his best.  He was super jittery on the first drive and he had the orbit motion on 4th down, it was there.  He was hitting that in the regular season but the best way to beat any QB is to speed up their decision making process.  As soon as he looked away from Shakir, it was over.  Even then he made an incredible effort to get the ball to somewhere someone could catch it.  And it should have been an easy catch albeit non standard.  The OL was not great, Kincaid was not great.  Elam was not great.  Yes Josh could have been better but we can say that about many other players also.  You don't see the poor play in Josh's numbers but he had three fumbles, two interceptable passes and he was not figuring it out presnap like he has the rest of the year.   

 

His decision to extend the ball over the line on the first 4th down was poor, that was almost guaranteed to be a fumble, it was, luckily they got it back only to fail on a QB sneak 4 plays later.

 

 

Edited Monday at 04:39 PM by Matt_In_NH

[CincyBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's also a glaring difference between Josh Allen and Jim Kelly...

What do you mean?  Allen is the best QB to play for the Bills and Kelly is the 2nd best - high honors for both men considering we're talking about a 65 year old franchise.

 

But what has prevented Allen from matching Kelly's post season production is clearly the difference in surrounding talent on both sides of the ball.  Give Allen 2 future HOF WR's, a HOF RB and a HOF DE who was a one man wrecking crew and Allen & the Bills have already won a couple of SB's. 

[Buffalo4Life01]

36 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Na I think he knew that was the right read and thought he could buy some extra time to make sure it came open if he rolled right but the corner blitz came from that side so he reset and threw it to the spot. Don’t really think it was ‘luck’ at all…absolutely perfect throw that only his guy could get he just didn’t get it 

 

he wasn’t just wildly throwing a prayer hoping someone was there lol 

It was 100% the correct read on the play.  The sky cam shows due to the blitz, Kincaid was breaking wide open as the safety had vacated the area he was running to.  Just need the O.line to hold up a fraction of a second more and that's a huge first down.  

[buffalostu2]

12 hours ago, Ramza86 said:

Choke is a strong word.....but he certainly didnt play up to the level needed to win the game. 

 

Although thats tough against the Chiefs and the refs.

We only lost by 3 points.   Mahomes stats are almost the same except for a few runs.   He played well enough to win, just not well enough to overcome one egregious error by the referees on a game changing call. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Upon reflection, it is true Josh did not play his best.  He was super jittery on the first drive and he had the orbit motion on 4th down, it was there.  He was hitting that in the regular season but the best way to beat any QB is to speed up their decision making process.  As soon as he looked away from Shakir, it was over.  Even then he made an incredible effort to get the ball to somewhere someone could catch it.  And it should have been an easy catch albeit non standard.  The OL was not great, Kincaid was not great.  Elam was not great.  Yes Josh could have been better but we can say that about many other players also.  You don't see the poor play in Josh's numbers but he had three fumbles, two interceptable passes and he was not figuring it out presnap like he has the rest of the year.  

 

 

Again they're not "interceptions"unless the DB's hold on to the ball and the fumbles were not lost.  I just don't get the obsession with "turnover worthy" plays.  It's a ridiculous stat that might only be useful if we could travel between alternate universes.

 

Allen did not play an elite game but he did play a great game. If you replay this game with Allen playing exactly how he played last night but the defense played better or the O line played better or the receivers played better the Bills win and are going to the Super Bowl.

 

 

[billieve420]

Just now, buffalostu2 said:

We only lost by 3 points.   Mahomes stats are almost the same except for a few runs.   He played well enough to win, just not well enough to overcome one egregious error by the referees on a game changing call. 

 

Unfortunately you need to be great to beat KC end of the day. So Allen does take a hit from this but to me the other guys and coaches around him deserve most of the blame.

[AZSanta]

12 hours ago, dayman said:

He’s great. He’s been great in the playoffs. He wasn’t tonight.
 

Started shaky as hell. Couldn’t run all night. Couldn’t sneak. Couldn’t get it downfield (except Hollins a few times…good on Hollins). Ran right into that blitz he didn’t see to end the game and left Shakir open for what may have been a winner.

 

 Love Josh. But let’s just call it what it was—choke job tonight. If he was great we go to the superbowl. He was far from great.

Same scenario last year. Final minutes down by 3 all he had to do was get a td and he beats Mahommes. He choked then and he choked this year. He is a great QB but definitely not clutch like Mahommes 

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What do you mean?  Allen is the best QB to play for the Bills and Kelly is the 2nd best - high honors for both men considering we're talking about a 65 year old franchise.

 

But what has prevented Allen from matching Kelly's post season production is clearly the difference in surrounding talent on both sides of the ball.  Give Allen 2 future HOF WR's, a HOF RB and a HOF DE who was a one man wrecking crew and Allen & the Bills have already won a couple of SB's. 

Not to mention Biscuit, the greatest special team player- 89, good TE McKeller(greatest all time Bills TE?), and an excellent offensive line.  If only Josh could QB those great teams!

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Again they're not "interceptions"unless the DB's hold on to the ball and the fumbles were not lost.  I just don't get the obsession with "turnover worthy" plays.  It's a ridiculous stat that might only be useful if we could travel between alternate universes.

 

Allen did not play an elite game but he did play a great game. If you replay this game with Allen playing exactly how he played last night but the defense played better or the O line played better or the receivers played better the Bills win and are going to the Super Bowl.

 

 

The point about turnover worthy plays is not be be obsessed, you do it because one game is a small sample size and sometimes you get a better view on performance than looking deeper than just the stats.   You play the game again, you likely have turnovers.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo4Life01 said:

It was 100% the correct read on the play.  The sky cam shows due to the blitz, Kincaid was breaking wide open as the safety had vacated the area he was running to.  Just need the O.line to hold up a fraction of a second more and that's a huge first down.  

Or the TE holds on to the very catchable ball that hit his hands.  That was a remarkable play by Allen anyway you look at it.  It was also an incredibly clutch play by Allen.  But here we are on 2BD in a thread titled "Josh choked tonight" having to defend the Bills QB from crazy people.  It's just sad.

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What do you mean?  Allen is the best QB to play for the Bills and Kelly is the 2nd best - high honors for both men considering we're talking about a 65 year old franchise.

 

But what has prevented Allen from matching Kelly's post season production is clearly the difference in surrounding talent on both sides of the ball.  Give Allen 2 future HOF WR's, a HOF RB and a HOF DE who was a one man wrecking crew and Allen & the Bills have already won a couple of SB's. 

 

 

True

 

My point is that Allen has done a lot with far less in his career.  Put Kelly on this roster and I don't see 4 SB appearances---or 2 AFCC appearances.  Put Josh on those SB Bills teams and it's a 4-peat...

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Upon reflection, it is true Josh did not play his best.  He was super jittery on the first drive and he had the orbit motion on 4th down, it was there.  He was hitting that in the regular season but the best way to beat any QB is to speed up their decision making process.  As soon as he looked away from Shakir, it was over.  Even then he made an incredible effort to get the ball to somewhere someone could catch it.  And it should have been an easy catch albeit non standard.  The OL was not great, Kincaid was not great.  Elam was not great.  Yes Josh could have been better but we can say that about many other players also.  You don't see the poor play in Josh's numbers but he had three fumbles, two interceptable passes and he was not figuring it out presnap like he has the rest of the year.   

 

His decision to extend the ball over the line on the first 4th down was poor, that was almost guaranteed to be a fumble, it was, luckily they got it back only to fail on a QB sneak 4 plays later.

 

 

Are you guys all latching onto a bad tweet or something? Lol. He made the perfect read on the 4th down play…the orbit motion if he could even get the ball out in time throwing to his left was very very likely getting blown up before the line to gain and that’s not a risk you can take.  Kincaid was coming open with guaranteed yardage to pick up the first and dropped the ball 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The point about turnover worthy plays is not be be obsessed, you do it because one game is a small sample size and sometimes you get a better view on performance than looking deeper than just the stats.   You play the game again, you likely have turnovers.

The larger sample size was the regular & post season - 19 games total before last night. And in those games Allen had only 8 TO's.  Through 20 games, which is a pretty decent sample size, Allen only had 8 TO's.  And in his last 5 playoff games Allen has not turned the ball over.  I couldn't care less about turnover worthy plays within this context.