Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, PoundingDog said:

I look it this way.

 

There are coaches so good that they themselves can elevate a team to play at a level beyond their capability. They do exist but very very few. Belichick is one. Andy Reid and McVay maybe 1/2 such a guy. Note they still need a HoF guy like Brady and Mahomes to build a dynasty but they can find a way to win in general with a capable roster.

 

The majority of the GOOD to GREAT coaches need a capable roster (Buffalo has one in my opinion), and some luck on injury and some infusion of unexpected talent popping up; all aligned to win it all. That's why in general it is so unpredictable in the past until ... we have these dynasties with NE and now KC.

 

We are one of the fortunate teams with a HoF QB in prime. Remember there are a lot of NFL teams with a HoF QB in the past and they won once in a while if you look into the history overall.

 

I don't think McDermott is in Belichick, Reid, and McVay category. Are we saying we MUST find the new Belichick/Reid/McVay now in order to win it all? What is the chance to land one? If you were Pegula, you had to access the likelihood to find a young Belichick within the next 2 coaching cycles while we still have Allen performing at HoF level, right?   

 

Won't happen now but I wanted them to go get Bill. He can opt out of his UNC contract. Bill manages the game better than Sean. He is a better DC than Sean. His record when he has had a franchise QB speaks for itself. His end at NE wasn't good but going from the GOAT to Mac Jones. No coach could overcome that drop in talent at the games most important position.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Gregg said:

 

Won't happen now but I wanted them to go get Bill. He can opt out of his UNC contract. Bill manages the game better than Sean. He is a better DC than Sean. His record when he has had a franchise QB speaks for itself. His end at NE wasn't good but going from the GOAT to Mac Jones. No coach could overcome that drop in talent at the games most important position.

 

Have you considered Bill ain't the GOAT without a GOAT QB? A lot of the Pats issues came from the players Bill drafted.

Edited Monday at 03:51 PM by PromoTheRobot

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Have you considered Bill ain't the GOAT without a GOAT QB? A lot of the Pats issues came from the players Bill drafted.

 

His record with Brady speaks for itself. Bill's defense contributed a lot to those Super Bowl wins. If nothing else the Bills defense would perform better in the playoffs with Bill. Of course, the bar is set low with McDermott's defense disappointing in many of these playoff games. I just think with Bill's defense and Allen playing like he usually does in the playoffs that would give the Bills an excellent shot to win a Super Bowl.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Gregg said:

 

His record with Brady speaks for itself. Bill's defense contributed a lot to those Super Bowl wins. If nothing else the Bills defense would perform better in the playoffs with Bill. Of course, the bar is set low with McDermott's defense disappointing in many of these playoff games. I just think with Bill's defense and Allen playing like he usually does in the playoffs that would give the Bills an excellent shot to win a Super Bowl.

 

I don't agree but whatever.

[Jrb1979]

While McDermott deserves a lot of respect for how he develops players and gets the most of them.  He is a great coach for that. I personally not in a hurry to necessarily move on from him. 

 

I do think for the Bills to win a Super Bowl his philosophy of building a team has to change. IMO he's very old school in terms of roster construction. It's based more on culture and scheme fit than going after elite playmakers. It feels like they are very anti diva of any kind. 

 

Just look at the drafts, they prefer guys that will work hard with a high ceiling, than take a guy who may have a chip on his shoulder and will have an impact right away. 

 

IMO that needs to change to win a Super Bowl. 

[Gregg]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I don't agree but whatever.

 

As I mentioned it's not happening anyway, but I have doubts the Bills win it all with McDermott. His defenses continue to play poorly in the playoffs and it's the main reason why the Bills can't get to a Super Bowl.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Gregg said:

 

As I mentioned it's not happening anyway, but I have doubts the Bills win it all with McDermott. His defenses continue to play poorly in the playoffs and it's the main reason why the Bills can't get to a Super Bowl.

 

Players have to make plays. What's Oliver's excuse?

[Jrb1979]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Players have to make plays. What's Oliver's excuse?

I agree players have to make plays. At the same time the regime needs to also get those type of players that make those plays. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

I agree players have to make plays. At the same time the regime needs to also get those type of players that make those plays. 

 

No question we could have drafted better. But it's also disappointing to see players that showed they can be great but don't make the effort. Almost everyone on our D line had a great start but never took it to the next level.

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

No question we could have drafted better. But it's also disappointing to see players that showed they can be great but don't make the effort. Almost everyone on our D line had a great start but never took it to the next level.

It could just be that's the highest level they will get too. 

[Mikie2times]

These takes from the church of McD effectively allow him to remain our HC as long as he's successful in the regular season. Nothing that is being said by any of his supporters wouldn't be able to be said again in another 5 years without a Super Bowl.

 

Given we have an MVP level QB, regular season success seems more likely than not. I would be curious at what point his supporters would be alright saying, ok, I have had enough?

 

How many years of not reaching a Super bowl is "enough" for those that are supporting him? Or does that even matter to you? As an example if we repeat the last 4 years the next 4 years is that ok for you? Perhaps that will help people get some perspective on your outlook with this. 

 

Edited Monday at 04:11 PM by Mikie2times

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

His record with Brady speaks for itself. Bill's defense contributed a lot to those Super Bowl wins. If nothing else the Bills defense would perform better in the playoffs with Bill. Of course, the bar is set low with McDermott's defense disappointing in many of these playoff games. I just think with Bill's defense and Allen playing like he usually does in the playoffs that would give the Bills an excellent shot to win a Super Bowl.

Completely agree....3 of Tom's rings are because of Bill's defense in those SB's.  I'd kill to have a defensive genius like Beli clean up the playoff defensive meltdowns we've witnessed dating back to the 4 SB losses. 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

These takes from the church of McD effectively allow him to remain our HC as long as he's successful in the regular season. Nothing that is being said by any of his supporters wouldn't be able to be said again in another 5 years without a Super Bowl.

 

Given we have an MVP level QB, regular season success seems more likely than not. I would be curious at what point his supporters would be alright saying, ok, I have had enough?

 

How many years of not reaching a Super bowl is "enough" for those that are supporting him? Or does that even matter to you? As an example if we repeat the last 4 years the next 4 years is that ok for you? Perhaps that will help people get some perspective on your outlook with this. 

 

It doesn't matter as much to the younger generations. They are perfectly happy and content to continue enjoying the current Bills experience....just entertain me.... Winning a championship used to be the ultimate goal.  It's exhausting trying to understand this. There will always be a large percentage of fans that will support McB no matter what. And besides with Kim no longer able to run her team, Terry will not make waves and continue status quo.  It is what it is....

[PoundingDog]

Belichick''s defense had HoF players. Richard Seymour, Ty Law came to mind. Seau played for a year too.

 

McDermott had Von Miller for half a season before injury.

Edited Monday at 09:16 PM by PoundingDog

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

The proponents of "move on from McD" are all assuming that of course the next coaching hire will get them over the hump. 

Which is more likely: the Bills get to the AFC championship game again and this time make one more play and win it, or an entirely new coach can come in and retool on the fly and achieve more success than McD. 

 

I think it's 50/50 McD can get this squad to a Super Bowl. It's probably less than 10% chance that Pegula can hire someone better. Why do I think that?

-Rex Ryan

-The Sabres

[Buffalo716]

11 minutes ago, PoundingDog said:

Belichick''s defense had HoF players. Richard Seymour, Ty Law came to mind. Seau played for a year too.

 

McDermott had Von Miller for half a season before injury.

Bill belichick just like Sean McDermott was able to stick plenty of pieces into his scheme and get contributions 

 

Sean McDermott wasn't the first coach to have defensive players get a bigger contract from another team... Wish them luck.. just to bring them back when they didn't play up to their contract and get cut.. bring them back to Buffalo where they play pretty well again 

 

Bill belichick can get six round picks ready to play in his scheme all day just like Sean.. people forget Sean also helped develop four players on our defense into all pros.. Milano , both safeties and Tre White all became all pros under Sean McDermott 

 

He turned them into some of the best in the world

Edited Monday at 09:26 PM by Buffalo716

[Gregg]

5 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

The proponents of "move on from McD" are all assuming that of course the next coaching hire will get them over the hump. 

Which is more likely: the Bills get to the AFC championship game again and this time make one more play and win it, or an entirely new coach can come in and retool on the fly and achieve more success than McD. 

 

I think it's 50/50 McD can get this squad to a Super Bowl. It's probably less than 10% chance that Pegula can hire someone better. Why do I think that?

-Rex Ryan

-The Sabres

 

Unless Pegula were to clean house and fire both McDermott and Beane then it would be Beane leading the search if McDermott was the only one fired.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

30 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Unless Pegula were to clean house and fire both McDermott and Beane then it would be Beane leading the search if McDermott was the only one fired.

I don't know...McD doesn't report to Beane, he reports to Pegula. All the other coaching searches (Bills and Sabres) Pegula is intimately involved. 

[Mikie2times]

41 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

It doesn't matter as much to the younger generations. They are perfectly happy and content to continue enjoying the current Bills experience....just entertain me.... Winning a championship used to be the ultimate goal.  It's exhausting trying to understand this. There will always be a large percentage of fans that will support McB no matter what. And besides with Kim no longer able to run her team, Terry will not make waves and continue status quo.  It is what it is....

I spent about the last 1000 posts trying to prove a case could and likely should be made for moving on, but man is that negative. It's just not worth all the posts from my perspective. At the same time, I think it's fair to ask his supporters where does the line get drawn? 

 

We have had as much regular season success as any major sports franchise since 2020, but we did that in the 90's as well. I hear people dismiss the postseason as the "tournament" but from my perspective, more often than not, the best team does in fact win the Super Bowl. It doesn't happen every time, but most of the time it's how it unfolds. 

 

I think it's very fair to ask if we did the same thing all over again the next 4 years, would it be enough to these posters? If the answer is yes, and it would seem likely it has to be (given what points are made by his supporters) then these threads and all the debates involved are kind of pointless. It would just show a fundamental difference in how both groups look at success and what they ultimately want. So again, really curious how McD's supporters feel about this. Winning is fun, losing is not fun, I like to have fun. But at the end of the day I really want just one. To me that has to be the goal. Eventually I feel like you can't ride the same horse who hasn't been able to accomplish that forever. Maybe some feel you can or you should. I would like to hear perspective on that if that is the case. 

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Unless Pegula were to clean house and fire both McDermott and Beane then it would be Beane leading the search if McDermott was the only one fired.

 

Just now, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

I don't know...McD doesn't report to Beane, he reports to Pegula. All the other coaching searches (Bills and Sabres) Pegula is intimately involved. 

 

Beane would certainly have plenty of input since Terry needs his GM and HC aligned and working well together. But Beane would not lead the search. Nor would Terry like he does with the Sabres.

 

He relied heavily on Russ's advisement for the Rex hire.

He brought in a consulting firm that presented a number of candidates and recommended McDermott.

I assume he'd use the same firm, get Beane's input, and make the decision from there.