Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[Doc Brown]

12 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

You're right, it's all speculation.  On the outside with snow angels and Pats on the back, everything looks wonderful.  But IMHO I think Josh is slowly starting to get pissed off. He'll never show it because he's the "good soldier".  But if you look at how after that post game presser he was a higher tier of devastated.  Something I haven't seen in previous playoff presser losses.  He looked completely and emotionally wiped out.

 

This "status quo" strategy of keep doing what we've been doing and eventually we'll break thru isn't sustainable.  Every human being has a breaking point.  And if this yearly playoff exit continues, there's no way Josh will not complain.  I think eventually he'll get tired of wearing the inadequacies of this front office.  Josh is not dumb.  He knows he's too talented to not be in one SB by now. 

He also just saw Joe Burrow miss the playoffs, a more talented Ravens team barely get the third seed because of a Steelers collapse, and a QB legend in his own division he grew up idolizing win just five games because he played for a clown of an organization.  The point is that he's having the same debate that we are and I have any clue which side he falls on.

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

The coaches have and continue to modify their scheme. That's my argument. The Bills aren't doing the same thing on defense they were a few years ago under Frasier.

It's the same results. The one constant is the head coach.  

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Well first you have to win in the regular season before worrying about  KC in the playoffs.  Lets say a new coach loses 2 more games and was the 6th or 7th seed.  How many 6 or 7 seeds win the SB or even make it past the first round?

 

4 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Really??  Lets say they lose a couple more regular season games and end up as the 6th or 7th seed.  Those seeds rarely make it past the first round.  Look at the Steelers records in the last nine times they've made the playoffs, 7 of those 9 seasons, they got knocked out in first game played and a good reason for those loses was because they were a low seed playing on the road.

 

I agree the defense needs improvement and can McD get us there I'll agree I don't know.  But I also know there's much more rom for getting worse both in regular season and in playoffs

Um, I don't think losing 1 or 2 games is going to cost us the AFCE. We clinched it like week 11 this year.

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

He didn't complain when his hand picked OC got fired. Allen strikes me as a "take things as they come" sort of player. I don't expect him to ever meet Pegula to ask for McDermott to be fired, or to complain if McDermott is ultimately fired.

I don't either but I can't completely dismiss the possibility.

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

That could easily be accomplished by simply not making the playoffs

So do you think McD vs (insert coach here) is the difference between being back in the drought, 6 wins every year and winning 11-13 games?

[MJS]

8 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It's the same results. The one constant is the head coach.  

That's such a lazy argument, though. You can't cast aspersions at the coach or the scheme when you don't have concrete things to point to besides the result. There are a lot of things that go into those results.

[wppete]

Im all for moving on from McDermott. 
 

[MJS]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

So do you think McD vs (insert coach here) is the difference between being back in the drought, 6 wins every year and winning 11-13 games?

I think McDermott props up the defense, especially the secondary, and that we see more of the true colors of the team in the playoffs when the difference in talent becomes evident. So yes, I think losing McDermott and changing to another coach would negatively impact the defense in the regular season and result in fewer wins.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I still can’t believe this is real.

 

Lost by 3 in the AFC Championship game and there’s a fire the coach thread.

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I still can’t believe this is real.

 

Lost by 3 in the AFC Championship game and there’s a fire the coach thread.

Lose to the same team in the same situation enough times and this will happen.

[folz]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

They literally existed. Vic Fangio was out there, he just made KC play their worst offensive game in 3 years. 
 

Ben Johnson was available. He was the hottest offensive coach on the market and turned Jared Goff into an MVP candidate.

 

Bill Belichick was available, he’s beaten KC in the playoffs.

 

Lou Anarumo was available, he’s beaten KC in the playoffs.

 

 

I understand that there are always guys out there that you could go for, but, there is no guarantee that a new guy can get it done either (even if they did somewhere else). I don't know that I'm in for change, just for the sake of change. For instance, we get enamored by coordinators who have recently done well. But, let's look at Vic Fangio for a moment---great coach, not taking anything away from him, but...

 

Since 2009, Vic Fangio's defenses have averaged a ranking of 13.8 in points against and 13.6 in yards against.

Since 2009, McDermott's defenses have averaged a ranking of 10.8 in points against and 12.4 in yards against.

 

In the playoffs, since 2011, McDermott is 10-10, 3 Championship game appearances, 1 Super Bowl appearance (loss)

Prior to this season's playoffs, Fangio (since 2011) was 5-5, 3 Championship game appearances, 1 Super Bowl appearance (loss). 

[Almost identical, up to this season, just with MCD having more overall games.]

 

As a head coach, Fangio was 19-30 in 3 years with Denver, no playoffs (granted his QBs were Flacco, Bridgewater, and Lock).

From 2015-2023, Fangio's teams (as HC or DC) were 0-2 in the playoffs with 7 years not making the playoffs.

 

I know Philly just had a great playoff run and knocked off the Chiefs with a great defensive performance, but there is no evidence that Fangio would improve on what McDermott has done here in Buffalo overall. Maybe he would, but that's a lot of turnover to kind of get pretty much what we already have.

 

 

I don't think Belichick was a realistic option for either side (the team or Bill). Nor frankly would I have wanted him as coach of the Bills.

 

Not sure how Anarumo would be an improvement. Seven years as a DC in the league. Only one top-10 ranking in 7 years. The last two years, the Bengals finished 31st and 25th overall in defense. Just because Cinci beat KC in the playoffs once?

 

 

And not that I would have endorsed it, but the only reason to cause so much turnover and change would have been if the team wanted to take a shot at a young, up-and-coming offensive coordinator like Johnson. But again, no guarantee. Plus there is the learning curve of being a first-time head coach, a new coaching staff, roster turnover, new offensive and defensive schemes and philosophies, etc....how long do we give the new guy to get it done before we're asking for another change and caught in that 3-year coaching turnover cycle? As close as we are, I think it's a big ask to think someone else can come in and just easily win a Super Bowl in their first two years.

 

I understand that we'll never know if we don't try, and I know that our defense has not been great in the playoffs (for various reasons each year)...but I would like to at least point out that at the end of regulation in the last three playoff games against the Chiefs, K.C. had a combined 6 points more than the Bills. Six points across three games! We were like 3 plays, 3 bounces of the ball away from maybe 3 Super Bowl appearances. And that's not even taking into account the horrible refereeing in the two Championship games vs. K.C. It's frustrating as all hell, but I don't see a good enough reason to blow it all up in the hopes that someone else gets us that one more play/lucky bounce of the ball/referee call(s).

 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

That could easily be accomplished by simply not making the playoffs. 

 

The week of the Bills 3rd or 4th straight Super Bowl, Marv said the best way to never ever lose a Super Bowl -Don't get in. 

[Einstein's Dog]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I still can’t believe this is real.

 

Lost by 3 in the AFC Championship game and there’s a fire the coach thread.

Off a "retooling" year and after the team crushed expectations for the regular season.  Seemed like McD was a real candidate for Coach of the Year.  Then after beating an extremely dangerous opponent in Baltimore lose a close one to the #1 seed at their place in the playoffs.

[gordong]

yes, going on two years now...defense has failed every year in the playoffs. that on him  

[Don Otreply]

48 minutes ago, MJS said:

The coaches have and continue to modify their scheme. That's my argument. The Bills aren't doing the same thing on defense they were a few years ago under Frasier.

I guess we disagree on this a bit , the soft LOS pressure on opponents pass catchers is still a big issue with this defense, and has been for some time now, third and long has become a bit of a running joke, especially this past season, it’s a combination of not having the right personnel and coaching, nuthin but luv, 👍

[Buffalo_Stampede]

44 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Lose to the same team in the same situation enough times and this will happen.

Shouldn’t happen. The most confusing part is when I would bring up Belichick I would get dislikes.

 

I don’t actually know if the fire McDermott people know what they want. 

Edited February 13 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Augie]

52 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I still can’t believe this is real.

 

Lost by 3 in the AFC Championship game and there’s a fire the coach thread.

This is insane to me. I mostly stay quiet and let them carry on, but we were 3 points away from the Super Bowl! A couple plays, a couple calls. They say “we failed again!”  I’m thinking that was a helluva fun season and I hope we can go a little bit farther next year. Talking about the draft before Thanksgiving got old. 

[Jrb1979]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

This is insane to me. I mostly stay quiet and let them carry on, but we were 3 points away from the Super Bowl! A couple plays, a couple calls. They say “we failed again!”  I’m thinking that was a helluva fun season and I hope we can go a little bit farther next year. Talking about the draft before Thanksgiving got old. 

It's been " a couple calls or a couple of plays" for the last few seasons. IMO he's taken them as far as he can. 

 

I don't understand that notion that if McDermott left they all of a sudden go to being a drought team. 

[Augie]

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

It's been " a couple calls or a couple of plays" for the last few seasons. IMO he's taken them as far as he can. 

 

I don't understand that notion that if McDermott left they all of a sudden go to being a drought team. 

 

And that’s just fine. I hope the guy you like next can have us as Super Bowl favorites every year. That is not a given, you know. I like knocking on the door every year and hope one day things fall right, and we walk in to find a Lombardi. But that’s me. 

 

It’s like people are mad at their kid for having an A average, but not being first in their class. I certainly don’t think the heels of an AFCCG is the time to talk about dumping the coach and/or GM. 

[Jrb1979]

Just now, Augie said:

 

And that’s just fine. I hope the guy you like next can have us as Super Bowl favorites every year. That is not a given, you know. I like knocking on the door every year and hope one day things fall right, and we walk in to find a Lombardi. But that’s me. 

 

It’s like people are mad at their kid for having an A average, but not being first in their class. I certainly don’t think the heels of an AFCCG is the time to talk about dumping the coach and/or GM. 

I would prefer them go to go all in and win one and take 3-5 years to rebuild