Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[uticaclub]

4 minutes ago, colin said:

 

he fires a coordinator every year?

 

he brings in more senior guys every year?

 

 

It rotates

 

Farwell was canned in 2021

Fraiser was canned in 2022

Dorsey was canned in 2023

Smiley was canned in 2024

 

Expect Babich gone next offseason.

 

Position assistance are always a revolving door, sometimes they hire veteran coaches, sometimes they hire new guys.

[JGMcD2]

52 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

1. 2019 was not hindsight - There were athletes at the WR position to be had in the Draft. The Bills were coming off 2018 with UDRFA Robert Foster functioning as the #1 deep threat, Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Andre Holmes, Jeremy Kerley, Ray Ray McCloud, Deonte Thompson, McKenzie makes his first appearance off waivers. The worst WR room in the NFL. 

 

Again - Cole Beasley was 30 years old and a nice slot player for the Cowboys. John Brown was 29/30 and again, nice player, good not great production. Brown was gone by after 2020 (he really only gave the Bills 2019) and Beasley gave the Bills two good years before age sapped him. So this idea that this "investment" barred the Bills from drafting a WR in 2019 is wrong. The depth chart was still pathetic after the "investment". And who was the Bills leading WR in the Houston Playoff game again? Oh, that's right Duke Williams. 

 

The FO completely whiffed on Cody Ford, it started right away in Training Camp when he had to move inside to Guard. 

2019 is all hindsight. You might’ve wanted investment in the WR room, which is totally fair, but it’s disingenuous to point to AJ Brown and DK Metcalf without also mentioning guys like Mecole Hardman, J.J. Arcega-Whiteside, Parris Campbell, and Andy Isabella, who went between them in the second round.

 

It’s the same thing with Cody Ford. Calling him a bust and saying "it started right away in Training Camp" overlooks the full context. Brandon Beane wasn’t given the choice of “Do you want this bust, Cody Ford, or one of these two All-Pro WRs?” and then sprinting to the podium screaming, "Cody Ford!!"

 

52 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

How do you defend this:

 

Drafts - Ray Ray McCloud (6th), Austin Proehl (7th), Gabe Davis (4th), Isaiah Hodgins (6th), Marquez Stephenson (6th), Khalil Shakir (5th), Justin Shorter (5th), Keon Coleman (2nd). 

 

It took until 2024 for the Bills to use a selection higher than the 4th Round to draft a WR with Josh Allen as their QB. Six complete seasons into his career. 

 

How could the investment into WR be any smaller realistically than this? 

 

Our GM is so confident about his strategy he trades with his arch nemesis and tells you its the best decision for the Bills - then says he was disappointed?

I’m not defending anything, but I don’t believe they’ve been negligent with surrounding Josh with offensive help. They believed in Gabe Davis as a 4th-round hit, and his $10M per year contract shows he wasn’t a miss. The belief in him as the #2 option behind Diggs is the key point here. Did they get it wrong? I think so. But when you have what you believe you have your WR1 and WR2 for the next 3-4 years and Josh Allen as your QB, do you keep investing heavily in WR when you have other needs? There’s been consistent investment in the offensive line until they found the right mix, with plenty of promising depth. The RB room is deeper and more versatile than ever, the TE room is among the best in the NFL, and the WR room has quality pieces. With the right #1, the others should fit in well. 
 

We both agree the Bills need to find the right #1 WR this year, but this ties back to your point about them needing to do better in the past. The issue is you can only point to names like AJ Brown, DK Metcalf, Terry McLaurin, or George Pickens, that Buffalo realistically had a chance to acquire, it misses the broader context. Those are good examples, but they weren’t the only options, and even then, that’s just four players over six years that would have legitimately made you happy. Everyone else was a push or a dud. 

Edited February 12 by JGMcD2

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

32 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

It rotates

 

Farwell was canned in 2021

Fraiser was canned in 2022

Dorsey was canned in 2023

Smiley was canned in 2024

 

Expect Babich gone next offseason.

 

Position assistance are always a revolving door, sometimes they hire veteran coaches, sometimes they hire new guys.

 

McD apologists will let you know Farwell wasn't fired, his contract came up and we didn't renew it. Frasier wasn't fired either, he simply 'took a year off' with apparently 1 year left on his contract. 

 

Have any other of the long tenured head coaches fired this many coordinators and only seen 1 coordinator sniped to be HC by a different team? 

[JGMcD2]

18 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

McD apologists will let you know Farwell wasn't fired, his contract came up and we didn't renew it. Frasier wasn't fired either, he simply 'took a year off' with apparently 1 year left on his contract. 

 

Have any other of the long tenured head coaches fired this many coordinators and only seen 1 coordinator sniped to be HC by a different team? 

Lol, someone literally just pointed out upthread that the recent consistency of McDermott/Daboll/Frazier for 4 seasons was only matched by New Orleans and San Francisco. 
 

And you’re talking about “firing this many coordinators” 

[uticaclub]

20 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

McD apologists will let you know Farwell wasn't fired, his contract came up and we didn't renew it. Frasier wasn't fired either, he simply 'took a year off' with apparently 1 year left on his contract. 

 

Have any other of the long tenured head coaches fired this many coordinators and only seen 1 coordinator sniped to be HC by a different team? 

True and even if Daboll didn't get a HC job he wasn't coming back to work with McDermott after 0:13.

[FireChans]

21 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

McD apologists will let you know Farwell wasn't fired, his contract came up and we didn't renew it. Frasier wasn't fired either, he simply 'took a year off' with apparently 1 year left on his contract. 

 

Have any other of the long tenured head coaches fired this many coordinators and only seen 1 coordinator sniped to be HC by a different team? 

ST coordinators aren’t the same as OC’s and DC’s lol. 
 

ST coordinators mean very little.

[JGMcD2]

Just now, FireChans said:

ST coordinators aren’t the same as OC’s and DC’s lol. 
 

ST coordinators mean very little.

And the run with McD, Frazier, Daboll was at the time equalled only by the 49ers and the Saints for continuity at HC-DC-OC. Four seasons with the same three guys is pretty rare in the NFL these days. 
 

Sorry, different thread… @GunnerBillgets the credit. 

[FireChans]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

And the run with McD, Frazier, Daboll was at the time equalled only by the 49ers and the Saints for continuity at HC-DC-OC. Four seasons with the same three guys is pretty rare in the NFL these days. 
 

Sorry, different thread… @GunnerBillgets the credit. 

Totally.

 

Harbaugh has had 3 coordinator changes in the last 4 years. Only one was poached. It happens.

[T master]

On 1/26/2025 at 9:07 PM, Monty98 said:

Look I get it, McDermott has been a great coach and person for the community. But at what point are his short comings in big time games more his flaw vs just bad luck? Tony Dungy couldn't get it done in Tampa, left got Gruden and won, and even then Dungy was all world regular season but couldn't win the big game in Indy outside of one-year.

 

For a coach who's scheme and learning was under Jim Johnson in Philly and the vaunted Double A gap formation, he's had some really sub par defensive performances. We all know KC runs spinner roll out right in big moments and we don't have a defensive play call to stop it. Where as KC knows Allen rolls out right in big moments or tries to sneak left...KC had their defense ready for both. I get it, this is frustration of falling short again, but at some point we need to buck the trend of falling short in KC again and again and again 

 

Just a foolish thought !! If so name 1 PLEASE ... 🙄 

 

Almost as goofy as saying - well Josh can't win the big game so let's get rid of him, sure he's good in the regular season but he just can't win a big game ...

 

Were you a Levy hater too ???

[HomeskillitMoorman]

8 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Just a foolish thought !! If so name 1 PLEASE ... 🙄 

 

Almost as goofy as saying - well Josh can't win the big game so let's get rid of him, sure he's good in the regular season but he just can't win a big game ...

 

Were you a Levy hater too ???

 

But it's not like saying that because Josh has played very well in the postseason, he's done his part. McDermott hasn't, his side of the ball has let us down in SIX straight postseasons. 

[T master]

6 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

But it's not like saying that because Josh has played very well in the postseason, he's done his part. McDermott hasn't, his side of the ball has let us down in SIX straight postseasons. 

 

But doing what he has done with the talent he has had and certain decisions he has made as far as talent is what has gotten the Bills to the play offs for as long as he has been here which is what every one forgets .

 

Sure Josh brings another level to the roster with out a doubt and if he isn't on the team i don't believe the Bills would have the success that they have for sure but to say that McD sucks sorry that's just not any where even close to being true !! 

 

This year was suppose to be a rebuilding year, new coordinators, new team mates, basically everything was different this season and who was at the rudder and kept everyone focused to make to the freakin AFC Championship game & you can sit here and say that if those 3 or 4 plays in that game were called as they should have been that the Bills wouldn't have been in the SB ?

 

3 points and 4 really S**TTY calls & some none calls by the refs that would have changed those 3 points into a win for the Bills would have been in the SB .

 

So that's on McD sorry ... Sure there have been some mistakes made but like this year and every year past he learns from them, changes course no matter how hard the decisions that need to be made to get better which shows the metal of a true leader to get better but lets get rid of this guy and as i asked,

 

FOR WHO ??? Which usually NO ONE can answer .

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, T master said:

FOR WHO ??? Which usually NO ONE can answer

Everyone has answered this question every year lol

[Jrb1979]

9 minutes ago, T master said:

 

But doing what he has done with the talent he has had and certain decisions he has made as far as talent is what has gotten the Bills to the play offs for as long as he has been here which is what every one forgets .

 

Sure Josh brings another level to the roster with out a doubt and if he isn't on the team i don't believe the Bills would have the success that they have for sure but to say that McD sucks sorry that's just not any where even close to being true !! 

 

This year was suppose to be a rebuilding year, new coordinators, new team mates, basically everything was different this season and who was at the rudder and kept everyone focused to make to the freakin AFC Championship game & you can sit here and say that if those 3 or 4 plays in that game were called as they should have been that the Bills wouldn't have been in the SB ?

 

3 points and 4 really S**TTY calls & some none calls by the refs that would have changed those 3 points into a win for the Bills would have been in the SB .

 

So that's on McD sorry ... Sure there have been some mistakes made but like this year and every year past he learns from them, changes course no matter how hard the decisions that need to be made to get better which shows the metal of a true leader to get better but lets get rid of this guy and as i asked,

 

FOR WHO ??? Which usually NO ONE can answer .

It's not my job to figure out who up and coming coaches to get. All I know is McD has taken this team as far as he can. His defense has played the same every playoff with the same results. 

 

My thoughts are many are afraid if McD goes the Bills go back to being irrelevant. 

[Gregg]

21 minutes ago, T master said:

 

But doing what he has done with the talent he has had and certain decisions he has made as far as talent is what has gotten the Bills to the play offs for as long as he has been here which is what every one forgets .

 

Sure Josh brings another level to the roster with out a doubt and if he isn't on the team i don't believe the Bills would have the success that they have for sure but to say that McD sucks sorry that's just not any where even close to being true !! 

 

This year was suppose to be a rebuilding year, new coordinators, new team mates, basically everything was different this season and who was at the rudder and kept everyone focused to make to the freakin AFC Championship game & you can sit here and say that if those 3 or 4 plays in that game were called as they should have been that the Bills wouldn't have been in the SB ?

 

3 points and 4 really S**TTY calls & some none calls by the refs that would have changed those 3 points into a win for the Bills would have been in the SB .

 

So that's on McD sorry ... Sure there have been some mistakes made but like this year and every year past he learns from them, changes course no matter how hard the decisions that need to be made to get better which shows the metal of a true leader to get better but lets get rid of this guy and as i asked,

 

FOR WHO ??? Which usually NO ONE can answer .

 

Bill that's who. Compare Bill's record with an elite level QB vs McDermott. Also, Bill is a better DC which has been the main problem for the Bills in the playoffs. Bill can fix that.

[T master]

18 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

It's not my job to figure out who up and coming coaches to get. All I know is McD has taken this team as far as he can. His defense has played the same every playoff with the same results. 

 

My thoughts are many are afraid if McD goes the Bills go back to being irrelevant. 

 

Well if you look at a lot of teams that have done the same thing and the Bills being 1 of them that wouldn't surprise me . Remember who the last winning coach was that the Bills had before McD ? 

 

Phillips, and what followed 17 years of irrelevance ! What happened to the Eagles when they fired Reid 10 years to be exact and the Eagles didn't make it to the play offs again for 5 years after they fired Reid . I'm sure there are other instances like this one if i were to dig a bit deeper .

 

Also there are the instances like the one that Gruden came into in Tampa after Dungy left where he won a SB with the team Tony built which in my personal opinion should have been Tony's SB because i think if he would have been able to stay they would have still won it, they didn't win just because of Gruden & the fact that he played his old team had a ton to do with it .

 

But that is something we will never know is the what if Tony would have stayed, but 1 thing we do know is that Tony went on to win a SB and it may have been his second if given the chance but Gruden never went back again so then there's that .

 

I believe in my heart of hearts that McD will learn as he has from his mistakes, make changes from those learning experiences, and bring the trophy to Buffalo before he retires, but once again that may just be me ...

Edited February 13 by T master

[Jrb1979]

4 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Well if you look at a lot of teams that have done the same thing and the Bills being 1 of them that wouldn't surprise me . Remember who the last winning coach was that the Bills had before McD ? 

 

Phillips, and what followed 17 years of irrelevance ! What happened to the Eagles when they fired Reid 10 years to be exact and the Eagles didn't make it to the play offs again for 5 years after they fired Reid . I'm sure there are other instances like this one if i were to dig a bit deeper .

 

Also there are the instances like the one that Gruden came into in Tampa after Dungy left where he won a SB with the team Tony built which in my personal opinion should have been Tony's SB because i think if he would have been able to stay they would have still won it, they didn't win just because of Gruden & the fact that he played his old team had a ton to do with it .

 

But that is something we will never know is the what if Tony would have stayed, but 1 thing we do know is that Tony went on to win a SB and it may have been his second if given the chance but Gruden never went back again so then there's that .

 

I believe in my heart of hearts that McD will learn as he has from his mistakes, make changes from those learning experiences, and bring the trophy to Bffalo before he retires, but once again that may just be me ...

I want to believe that but all the years he's been coach his defense hasn't changed philosophy much and crumbled against good offenses. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

 

My thoughts are many are afraid if McD goes the Bills go back to being irrelevant. 

This is theme I’ve gathered so far this offseason.

 

There is a healthy percentage of fans that want to keep everything the same. 
 

Sal Capaccio and Joe Marino want to keep everything the same - extend all the logical Bills coming due, bring back Mack Hollins, Ty Johnson, Reggie Gilliam, Reid Ferguson, Quintin Morris, etc.

 

They were encouraged by Brandon Beane’s End of Season Press Conference and believe the team is close and agrees with just keep kicking the door down.

 

 

There is another segment of fans in favor of some roster surgery to acquire difference makers, accepting that some Bills might need to go to make that happen.

 

I think @BillsVet is right - the FO will stay on their usual path - extended and re-signing their own players. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

4 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

The new stadium will buy the Bills a year maybe two. Rich Stadium opened in 1973 so by 2026 it will have been 53 years since the Bills had a new stadium. Fans are going to be curious to check the new place out. Even if fans get priced out of season tickets they will still go to a game or two. What it's like to watch a game there. The atmosphere and everything the new stadium has to offer. All of it is new so everyone will be curious to see it. Once the "shine" of the new place wears off then ticket sales will decline at those prices if the team isn't any good. 

Only 5k psls have been sold to date. They have alot of work to do to get it sold out.

[Gregg]

Just now, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Only 5k psls have been sold to date. They have alot of work to do to get it sold out.

 

If people can't afford to buy seasons then they will buy individual game tickets to avoid the PSL fee. They won't have trouble selling out the first year in the new stadium. Fans are going to be curious to check the new place out so demand for tickets will be high even if the sales on season tickets declines.

[MJS]

3 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

McD apologists will let you know Farwell wasn't fired, his contract came up and we didn't renew it. Frasier wasn't fired either, he simply 'took a year off' with apparently 1 year left on his contract. 

 

Have any other of the long tenured head coaches fired this many coordinators and only seen 1 coordinator sniped to be HC by a different team? 

Frasier had a year left? I thought his contract was expired as well.