Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[Logic]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

You can really see after so many years together that OBD conducts their football business consistent with the personalities of the HC and GM.  It's pretty conservative: in the offensive and defensive schemes they run, game-planning, player personnel decisions, and assistants largely promoted from within.    

 

This entire thread has become a yearly occurrence, albeit louder this year.  They're not really improving under the current leadership and have become stale.  Ironically, the boldness they exhibited to move up and draft Josh hasn't been there since 2018 save for trading for Diggs and signing Miller in 2022.  

 

They've had some pedestrian off-seasons the last couple years that patched up holes or threw the equivalent of deck chairs off the Titanic.  I still find it ironic the GM talks about finding dynamic players and the HC is firing again firing a coordinator as though these are immediate reasons for their stagnation.

 

I think we'll know a lot about who the 2025 Bills are after the first week of UFA.  If there's some audacity on display, perhaps they've abandoned their predictable and safe ways.  If not, they just replicated their approach in previous off-seasons.   

I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you say here.

On the other hand, your post should have the following asterisks, IMO:

*The Bills have the most wins in the NFL since 2020

*The Bills have the best point differential in the NFL since 2020 
*The Bills have won the AFC East a franchise record five times in a row

*If not for Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs, there's a very good chance the Bills would have appeared in at least one Super Bowl

*The Bills were a touchdown away from being in the Super Bowl THIS year

 

At the end of the day, none of what I just listed resulted in the Bills hoisting a Lombardi, and that's obviously the ultimate goal. 

But if you're going to make the points you just made about "staleness" and "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", it seems only fair to mention that the Bills have been one of the most consistently excellent franchises in the NFL the past five years.

They consistently win their division, consistently rank at the top of point differential and wins league wide, and consistently make the playoffs. A Super Bowl win is the ONLY thing they haven't done yet. Seems like quite an accomplished and successful franchise to be likening to the Titanic.

Edited 3 hours ago by Logic

[Jrb1979]

5 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Well this being said... I think he may be a little more on the hot seat than we think... and I think it may stem from the players mostly... you need faith your leader is going to get it done... JA recruiting Garrett says a lot to me...  I think he gets this year... if he doesnt at least make it to the dance, I think the seat gets really hot.. at minimum new DC...  maximum out the door... so he best get it right...  he needs to cross the line and kick in the door soon... 

I disagree. From a fans perspective that makes sense. From the owner perspective, hope sells tickets more than a championship does. As long as the Bills are competitive and make the playoffs, I don't seem much changing.  They need a continuous good team to keep the new stadium full. 

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Well this being said... I think he may be a little more on the hot seat than we think... and I think it may stem from the players mostly... you need faith your leader is going to get it done... JA recruiting Garrett says a lot to me...  I think he gets this year... if he doesnt at least make it to the dance, I think the seat gets really hot.. at minimum new DC...  maximum out the door... so he best get it right...  he needs to cross the line and kick in the door soon... 

 

Definitely could happen this way. With the new stadium opening in 2026 and raised ticket prices as well as PSL fees Terry is going to want/need a good team to sell tickets. Look at the Jets and Giants as examples of having bad teams with higher prices and PSL fees. MetLife has thousands of empty seats on game days. These were two teams who sold-out Giants Stadium with just season ticket holders, and both had waiting lists for season tickets.

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I disagree. From a fans perspective that makes sense. From the owner perspective, hope sells tickets more than a championship does. As long as the Bills are competitive and make the playoffs, I don't seem much changing.  They need a continuous good team to keep the new stadium full. 

Well, maybe we don't disagree at least on everything... I do not think the pressure is going to come from Pegula.. I think if there is pressure, it will be internal from the players if they dont see getting to the next level... 

[billsfan714]

I found this on reddit.... McD is now approaching fifth place in most games with the same team without a superbowl appearance since the merger in 1970.

 

1. Marvin Lewis - Bengals: 245 games ; 15 seasons; record of 130-115 (.531) ; 7 playoff games ; 0 playoff wins

2.Jim Mora Sr - Colts: 167 games ; 10 seasons ; record of 93-74 (.557) ; 4 playoff games ; 0 playoff wins

3.Marty Schottenheimer - Chiefs: 159 games ; 10 seasons ; record of 101-58 (.635) ; 10 playoff games ; 3 playoff wins (.300)

4.Dennis Green - Vikings: 159 games ; 10 seasons ; record of 97-62 (.610) ; 12 playoff games ; 4 playoff wins (.333)

5.Chuck Knox - Seahawks: 143 games ; 9 seasons ; record of 80-63 (.559) ; 7 playoff games ; 3 playoff wins (.429

 

McD now has 131 regular season games with the Bills.    A little more than 2 seasons and he will only trail the great Marvin Lewis.

Edited 2 hours ago by billsfan714

[BillsVet]

 

32 minutes ago, Logic said:

I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you say here.

On the other hand, your post should have the following asterisks, IMO:

*The Bills have the most wins in the NFL since 2020

*The Bills have the best point differential in the NFL since 2020 
*The Bills have won the AFC East a franchise record five times in a row

*If not for Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs, there's a very good chance the Bills would have appeared in at least one Super Bowl

*The Bills were a touchdown away from being in the Super Bowl THIS year

 

At the end of the day, none of what I just listed resulted in the Bills hoisting a Lombardi, and that's obviously the ultimate goal. 

But if you're going to make the points you just made about "staleness" and "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", it seems only fair to mention that the Bills have been one of the most consistently excellent franchises in the NFL the past five years.

They consistently win their division, consistently rank at the top of point differential and wins league wide, and consistently make the playoffs. A Super Bowl win is the ONLY thing they haven't done yet. Seems like quite an accomplished and successful franchise to be likening to the Titanic.

 

On all of your asterisks:

 

I really don't care Margaret.  

[HomeskillitMoorman]

15 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

I found this on reddit.... McD is now approaching fifth place in most games with the same team without a superbowl appearance since the merger in 1970.

 

1. Marvin Lewis - Bengals: 245 games ; 15 seasons; record of 130-115 (.531) ; 7 playoff games ; 0 playoff wins

2.Jim Mora Sr - Colts: 167 games ; 10 seasons ; record of 93-74 (.557) ; 4 playoff games ; 0 playoff wins

3.Marty Schottenheimer - Chiefs: 159 games ; 10 seasons ; record of 101-58 (.635) ; 10 playoff games ; 3 playoff wins (.300)

4.Dennis Green - Vikings: 159 games ; 10 seasons ; record of 97-62 (.610) ; 12 playoff games ; 4 playoff wins (.333)

5.Chuck Knox - Seahawks: 143 games ; 9 seasons ; record of 80-63 (.559) ; 7 playoff games ; 3 playoff wins (.429

 

McD now has 131 regular season games with the Bills.    A little more than 2 seasons and he will only trail the great Marvin Lewis.

 

And his is with an elite QB. This is so sad. 

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, billsfan714 said:

So who is our fantastic defensive coordinator?

 

sadly that's an issue 

[Chaos]

The people who post on this board probably represent the 1% of most passionate Bills fans. The other 99 percent of fans have real lifes.  They stop thinking about hte Bills when the season is over.  We are not a representative of the full fan base. Not even remotely. 

I enjoy conjecture on what could have been and what might be, more than most, but as long as the Bills win the NFL's crappiest division and occassionally McDermott gets to play as the Washington Generals to Andy Reid's Harlem Globetrotters, the Bills will be considered successful. 

[Jrb1979]

IMO the reason many are reluctant to move on from McDermott is they are afraid the team takes a step back or ends back in the drought era. 

[RyanC883]

58 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I disagree. From a fans perspective that makes sense. From the owner perspective, hope sells tickets more than a championship does. As long as the Bills are competitive and make the playoffs, I don't seem much changing.  They need a continuous good team to keep the new stadium full. 

 

a fair point, but a continuously good team that fails to reach the SB only keeps the stadium full for so long.  The Steelers no longer fill their stadium, for example, and the Eagles rotate coaches.  

 

That said, we are stuck with McD another year, but another season of underachieving like the last few and he should be gone.  Hopefully he adjusts the D scheme this year (signs point to that happening).  

 

 

[billsfan714]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you say here.

On the other hand, your post should have the following asterisks, IMO:

*The Bills have the most wins in the NFL since 2020

*The Bills have the best point differential in the NFL since 2020 
*The Bills have won the AFC East a franchise record five times in a row

*If not for Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs, there's a very good chance the Bills would have appeared in at least one Super Bowl

*The Bills were a touchdown away from being in the Super Bowl THIS year

 

At the end of the day, none of what I just listed resulted in the Bills hoisting a Lombardi, and that's obviously the ultimate goal. 

But if you're going to make the points you just made about "staleness" and "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", it seems only fair to mention that the Bills have been one of the most consistently excellent franchises in the NFL the past five years.

They consistently win their division, consistently rank at the top of point differential and wins league wide, and consistently make the playoffs. A Super Bowl win is the ONLY thing they haven't done yet. Seems like quite an accomplished and successful franchise to be likening to the Titanic.

Its going to make a great 60 for 60 in the year 2050 when ESPN does the Greatest team to never make a Superbowl: the fails of Buffalo and Sean McDermott, the stats will be amazing as the highlights.  13 seconds, missed FGs, spot controversies, etc.

Edited 2 hours ago by billsfan714

[Kirby Jackson]

It’s a great topic and one that we need to discuss. I’d add Beane too. I thought about starting a poll “if the Bills fall short of the Super Bowl should Beane and McDermott be fired?” I’m on record that I thought McDermott should have been gone by now. I’ve defended Beane but after last year’s draft he belongs on the hot seat. This team should have been in the Super Bowl by now. If it isn’t happening, you need to try something else. 

[Success]

No McDermott - his defense.

 

There just comes a time when you have to say that the general schemes we use are not working.  We criticize our personnel a lot - and we have few "star quality" players on D - but generally, it's a solid group.  I have always felt that someone like a Saleh could come in and make this defense stingy & tenacious.

 

I can't even characterize a "McDermott defense" except to say that it's just soft. We play that soft zone, and don't really press or present much aggressiveness. 

 

I'm hoping that he can really turn the reigns of the D over to the DC & other coaches on defense.  We need an entirely new philosophy.

 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

5 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

That said, we are stuck with McD another year, but another season of underachieving like the last few and he should be gone.  Hopefully he adjusts the D scheme this year (signs point to that happening).  

 

 

I understand that the SB is the goal every season, but to claim that the team "underachieved" this season is a stretch.  They ended the season as the 2 seed and made the AFC Championship game.  As disappointed as we all were with the final game, they were not expected to be that good by most "experts".

[Augie]

25 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

I understand that the SB is the goal every season, but to claim that the team "underachieved" this season is a stretch.  They ended the season as the 2 seed and made the AFC Championship game.  As disappointed as we all were with the final game, they were not expected to be that good by most "experts".

 

I believe calling it “a stretch” is putting it very politely. 

 

There are some seriously miserable people around here. 

 

EDIT: So miserable they have begun to vomit!  😱

 

.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Augie

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I believe calling it “a stretch” is putting it very politely. 

 

There are some seriously miserable people around here. 

 

 

The Bills were flawed this year.  So was every other AFC team. Eagle sort of showed how flawed the Chiefs were. No one expected the Jets Dolphins and Patriots to form the worst divisional opponents in the NFL.  No expected the Bengals to flame out.  

The Bills did well to put themselves in position to go to the Super Bowl.  And they choked the opportunity.  Both of those things are true.  The second is big disappointment for people.  And its not the first time in recent memory it happened.   

[billsfan714]

43 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

And his is with an elite QB. This is so sad. 

Yeah and Josh has 33 TDs(passing/rushing/receiving), 4 ints and a passing rating over a hundred and in the playoffs and you cant get that to a Superbowl.  You're a defensive coach and you cant get that kind of offensive production to the promised land.

Edited 2 hours ago by billsfan714

[HomeskillitMoorman]

10 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I believe calling it “a stretch” is putting it very politely. 

 

There are some seriously miserable people around here. 

 

 

 

I think it's more because if you look at the last 4 years, we've massively underperformed in the playoffs given what our elite QB has given us. Other top QB's aren't consistently losing these games they're playing very well in like we are. 

 

Our coach's side of the ball, defense, has let us down in the biggest games in 6 straight postseasons now. And yes this year it was to a team that pretty much had just a mediocre offense. 

 

It is a big problem when your defensive Head Coach is horrendous at coaching defense. 

[Trogdor]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you say here.

On the other hand, your post should have the following asterisks, IMO:

*The Bills have the most wins in the NFL since 2020

*The Bills have the best point differential in the NFL since 2020 
*The Bills have won the AFC East a franchise record five times in a row

*If not for Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs, there's a very good chance the Bills would have appeared in at least one Super Bowl

*The Bills were a touchdown away from being in the Super Bowl THIS year

 

At the end of the day, none of what I just listed resulted in the Bills hoisting a Lombardi, and that's obviously the ultimate goal. 

But if you're going to make the points you just made about "staleness" and "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", it seems only fair to mention that the Bills have been one of the most consistently excellent franchises in the NFL the past five years.

They consistently win their division, consistently rank at the top of point differential and wins league wide, and consistently make the playoffs. A Super Bowl win is the ONLY thing they haven't done yet. Seems like quite an accomplished and successful franchise to be likening to the Titanic.

Coordinators have changed, players have changed, and the Bills are still a touchdown away.