Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[BillsVet]

You can really see after so many years together that OBD conducts their football business consistent with the personalities of the HC and GM.  It's pretty conservative: in the offensive and defensive schemes they run, game-planning, player personnel decisions, and assistants largely promoted from within.    

 

This entire thread has become a yearly occurrence, albeit louder this year.  They're not really improving under the current leadership and have become stale.  Ironically, the boldness they exhibited to move up and draft Josh hasn't been there since 2018 save for trading for Diggs and signing Miller in 2022.  

 

They've had some pedestrian off-seasons the last couple years that patched up holes or threw the equivalent of deck chairs off the Titanic.  I still find it ironic the GM talks about finding dynamic players and the HC is firing again firing a coordinator as though these are immediate reasons for their stagnation.

 

I think we'll know a lot about who the 2025 Bills are after the first week of UFA.  If there's some audacity on display, perhaps they've abandoned their predictable and safe ways.  If not, they just replicated their approach in previous off-seasons.   

[billsfan714]

If you put Josh Allen on the Atlanta Falcons, they are instantly favorites for the NFC South and consistently win the division and make the playoffs.   It doesnt make Morris into Lombardi.   Again Dan Reeves had a better resume than McD, went to Superbowls with Elway, didnt win one, got there again with the Falcons.  The owner eventually made a change, hired Shanny and that got them 2 superbowl wins.  McD is a poorman's Dan Reeves and he doesnt even have a SB appearance.   Stop acting like he's Lombardi when he's really Marty Shottenheimer.

Edited 4 hours ago by billsfan714

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, JGMcD2 said:

Who exactly made the decision to draft Josh Allen? Was it the Buffalo Bills as an organization, or specific individuals in leadership? This article provides a good look at the decision-making group—five people were on that plane experiencing the "mountain wave." Three are still with the team, while the other two are now picking in the top 10 for the third time in four years.

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/277930/on-josh-allen-bills-hope-all-turbulence-is-behind-them
 

After reading that article and revisiting 2018, did Josh Allen look like a surefire MVP-level quarterback? Or did the decision-makers have to develop a plan to get him there? Did he plateau after two of those decision-makers left, or did he continue to grow and win an MVP while the others moved forward with Daniel Jones and failed to develop him?

Then why don't they help Allen and get him real WRs? 

 

Why did Beane get him Diggs and then stop trying after that? 

 

 

Drafts - Ray Ray McCloud, Austin Proehl, Gabe Davis, Isaiah Hodgins, Marquez Stephenson, Khalil Shakir, Justin Shorter, Keon Coleman

 

Notable UDFAs - Duke Williams, Robert Foster, Tanner Gentry

 

Practice Squad Claim - Isaiah McKenzie

 

FA signings - Cole Beasley, John Brown, Andre Roberts, Emmanuel Sanders, Jamison Crowder, Jake Kumerow, Andy Isabella, Deonte Harty, Trent Sherfield, Mack Hollins, Curtis Samuel

 

Trades - Stefon Diggs, Amari Cooper

 

 

The resume here is awful. 

[JimmyNoodles]

21 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Then bring in a new DC from outside the organization and let him have full control of the D because McDermott's defenses have failed miserably in the playoffs time and time again. The new DC can't and shouldn't be a puppet for McDermott to control as that will just lead more of the same failures on that side of the ball.

Yes 10000000% but is that going to happen?  Would McD give up control?  He likes what he likes.  I don't hink he's going to let someone retool "his" defense.  I think you'll see minor tweaks in an effort to make it look like someting is being done.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

15 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

You can really see after so many years together that OBD conducts their football business consistent with the personalities of the HC and GM.  It's pretty conservative: in the offensive and defensive schemes they run, game-planning, player personnel decisions, and assistants largely promoted from within.    

 

This entire thread has become a yearly occurrence, albeit louder this year.  They're not really improving under the current leadership and have become stale.  Ironically, the boldness they exhibited to move up and draft Josh hasn't been there since 2018 save for trading for Diggs and signing Miller in 2022.  

 

They've had some pedestrian off-seasons the last couple years that patched up holes or threw the equivalent of deck chairs off the Titanic.  I still find it ironic the GM talks about finding dynamic players and the HC is firing again firing a coordinator as though these are immediate reasons for their stagnation.

 

I think we'll know a lot about who the 2025 Bills are after the first week of UFA.  If there's some audacity on display, perhaps they've abandoned their predictable and safe ways.  If not, they just replicated their approach in previous off-seasons.   

Yes, yes and yes. 

 

People want McDermott and Beane gone because Pegula has given them the resources to build what they want and it's draft, develop and retain. 

 

It's left the team perpetually cap strapped and full of decent to good players, but no game changers on either side of the ball. 

 

And our GM is saying "keep kicking the door down" and "we're close" and "we aren't losing to just anybody" and "the Chiefs are going for a historic 3-peat". 

 

That press conference was nothing but we're going to keep doing what we've been doing. 

 

As soon as March 12th hits - its Year 8 for Beane, Year 9 for McDermott. 

 

I'll be shocked if they make a real trade on defense. I'll be even more shocked if they actually try to get Josh Allen a good WR.  

 

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Straight Hucklebuck

[billsfan714]

The offense is rarely the problem here, its on McD's side of the ball, his supposedly specialty, the defense.  He loves to constantly make changes to the offense, but its his side, the D, that rarely changes.  Thats obvious to anyone with a brain, its the D that lets this team down when it gets to the final 8 and 4 teams.

Edited 4 hours ago by billsfan714

[Gregg]

5 minutes ago, JimmyNoodles said:

Yes 10000000% but is that going to happen?  Would McD give up control?  He likes what he likes.  I don't hink he's going to let someone retool "his" defense.  I think you'll see minor tweaks in an effort to make it look like someting is being done.  

 

It probably won't happen, but it should. Even in some of the playoff wins the defense has struggled. The Ravens game for example. The Ravens drive right down the field for a potential game tying touchdown. Jackson made a poor throw on the two-point conversion, but it was still catchable and should have tied the game. The Bills defense didn't stop it. Baltimore screwed up on the play. How about a few years ago against the Dolphins in the playoffs. Some scrub named Skylar Thompson ended putting up a lot of points against the Bills defense. More often than not the defense fails to show up in big spots. Unless that changes then Allen is going to have the same type of career that Marino and Ewing had. Great players with no championships.

[JP51]

44 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

As someone who also lived the 90s Bills, the problem was they never found a successor to Jim Kelly.    They hoped it was Todd Collins and he wasnt the answer. I will give Polian and Marchibroda more credit for the SB Bills than Levy.  After Polian left it was the beginning of the end imho.  Thats not the problem now.   Josh should be here for years to come.    I think McD has been given a good shot.   Im ready to move on from McD.   One thing people miss is Buffalo with Josh would be a very attractive spot for the next hot coach.   Elway didnt win a SB with Dan Reeves, he won with Shanny, Manning didnt win the SB with Mora.  Im not willing to watch the same movie for Josh's entire career.  Im still waiting to see a master game plan on D from Sean in the playoffs when it counts.

I dont disagree with you... not a Levy fan... and we needed to start looking for his successor at 32 not 36... that was a huge reason for the downfall...  but in the end... when we parted with Polian it all slowly collapsed... so from that perspective complete collapse is an option (save the fact Josh is here) as well as hey, new eyes... and ideas are going to get us over the hump.... both are possibilities... my perspective is... Do I want to trust the existing pair progress... or do I want to trust Terry to pick the staff that will improve on what we have....  I simply dont trust Terry to do that... so... I choose option 1.... with full knowledge that you very well may be correct... 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, JP51 said:

I dont disagree with you... not a Levy fan... and we needed to start looking for his successor at 32 not 36... that was a huge reason for the downfall...  but in the end... when we parted with Polian it all slowly collapsed... so from that perspective complete collapse is an option (save the fact Josh is here) as well as hey, new eyes... and ideas are going to get us over the hump.... both are possibilities... my perspective is... Do I want to trust the existing pair progress... or do I want to trust Terry to pick the staff that will improve on what we have....  I simply dont trust Terry to do that... so... I choose option 1.... with full knowledge that you very well may be correct... 

 

What if only one of them gets fired. Say the Bills fire McDermott but Beane remains the GM. In that scenario Beane would be the one leading the search for a new HC. All of this time and Beane has never hired a HC before as he was hired after McDermott. 

[Mat68]

18 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

If you put Josh Allen on the Atlanta Falcons, they are instantly favorites for the NFC South and consistently win the division and make the playoffs.   It doesnt make Morris into Lombardi.   Again Dan Reeves had a better resume than McD, went to Superbowls with Elway, didnt win one, got there again with the Falcons.  The owner eventually made a change, hired Shanny and that got them 2 superbowl wins.  McD is a poorman's Dan Reeves and he doesnt even have a SB appearance.   Stop acting like he's Lombardi when he's really Marty Shottenheimer.

I would do it for Kyle.  If the 49ers struggle in 25 and Buffalo doesn’t win a Superbowl I make a deal for him.  

[billsfan714]

I think its a different game than the 90s, with all the rules to protect the QB now, QBs can be good for much longer.   I see Josh being good for years to come.  Im option 2, follow the Denver model, get a new coach for your franchise QB.

 

[The Jokeman]

38 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Then why don't they help Allen and get him real WRs? 

 

Why did Beane get him Diggs and then stop trying after that? 

 

 

Drafts - Ray Ray McCloud, Austin Proehl, Gabe Davis, Isaiah Hodgins, Marquez Stephenson, Khalil Shakir, Justin Shorter, Keon Coleman

 

Notable UDFAs - Duke Williams, Robert Foster, Tanner Gentry

 

Practice Squad Claim - Isaiah McKenzie

 

FA signings - Cole Beasley, John Brown, Andre Roberts, Emmanuel Sanders, Jamison Crowder, Jake Kumerow, Andy Isabella, Deonte Harty, Trent Sherfield, Mack Hollins, Curtis Samuel

 

Trades - Stefon Diggs, Amari Cooper

 

 

The resume here is awful. 

Checkout KC's WR  acquisitions since 2017

 

Drafted: Jehu Chesson, Tremon Smith, Mecole Hardman, Cornell Powell, Skyy Moore, Rashee Rice, Xavier Worthy.

 

FA signings Sammy Watkins MVS, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Richie James, Marquise Brown

 

Trades: Kadarius Toney, DeAndre Hopkins 

 

Undrafted free agents Byron Pringle, 

 

If we're awful than the Chiefs are even worse IMO as see far less contributions from their lot than ours. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by The Jokeman

[billsfan714]

28 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Yes, yes and yes. 

 

People want McDermott and Beane gone because Pegula has given them the resources to build what they want and it's draft, develop and retain. 

 

It's left the team perpetually cap strapped and full of decent to good players, but no game changers on either side of the ball. 

 

And our GM is saying "keep kicking the door down" and "we're close" and "we aren't losing to just anybody" and "the Chiefs are going for a historic 3-peat". 

 

That press conference was nothing but we're going to keep doing what we've been doing. 

 

I'll be shocked if they make a real trade on defense. I'll be even more shocked if they actually try to get Josh Allen a good WR.  

 

 

I cringed when Beane mentioned picking lower as an excuse.   Tell me all the top 10 picks on the Chiefs defense.

[JGMcD2]

44 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Then why don't they help Allen and get him real WRs? 

 

Why did Beane get him Diggs and then stop trying after that? 

 

 

Drafts - Ray Ray McCloud, Austin Proehl, Gabe Davis, Isaiah Hodgins, Marquez Stephenson, Khalil Shakir, Justin Shorter, Keon Coleman

 

Notable UDFAs - Duke Williams, Robert Foster, Tanner Gentry

 

Practice Squad Claim - Isaiah McKenzie

 

FA signings - Cole Beasley, John Brown, Andre Roberts, Emmanuel Sanders, Jamison Crowder, Jake Kumerow, Andy Isabella, Deonte Harty, Trent Sherfield, Mack Hollins, Curtis Samuel

 

Trades - Stefon Diggs, Amari Cooper

 

 

The resume here is awful. 

After his rookie season, things have been more than fine. 

• Right away, they brought in Brown and Beasley for 2019—shrewd moves.
• In 2020, they paired Diggs with those two and added Gabe Davis, giving the team a strong receiving core with Diggs, Brown, Beasley, and Davis.
• Brown was gone after 2020, replaced by Emmanuel Sanders. So, in 2021, the group consisted of Diggs, Beasley, Sanders, and Davis.
• By 2022, the team was down to Diggs and Davis, with more expected from McKenzie and Knox. They also drafted Khalil Shakir.
• In 2023, Diggs and Davis remained, Shakir had a bigger role, they drafted a TE in the first round, and James Cook took on a larger role.
• Despite the drama surrounding Diggs, which led to changes in the receiving group, the Allen won MVP with arguably the weakest WR corps since 2019

The notion that they haven’t provided him with real WRs is misguided. This is the first year it's been questionable, and he still won MVP.

 

You’re likely frustrated when comparing the situation to teams like Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and Miami, who have dynamic WR pairings like Chase/Higgins, Smith/Brown, and Waddle/Hill. These teams were in a position to acquire such talent because they went through a period of rebuilding. After selecting their franchise quarterbacks in 2020, they had top 10 draft picks in 2021, which allowed them to target and land premier wide receiver talent. Cincinnati had already secured Tee Higgins, so adding Ja’Marr Chase in 2021 was an amazing draw. Philadelphia and Miami, meanwhile, could make aggressive moves to acquire star receivers like A.J. Brown and Tyreek Hill because their quarterback and WR1 were still on rookie contracts, giving them more financial flexibility.

 

In contrast to other teams, there was no clear, slam-dunk wide receiver option for Buffalo to target in 2019. By 2021, however, there were three top 10 WRs in the draft, and two went in the first round. But even then, no WR was taken in the top 20, and Buffalo had productive veterans already on the roster. They went for the big fish with a trade for a proven star, rather than being able to draft a premier WR early. Since then, they haven’t had the opportunity to pick inside the top 20 again.

 

So, who were the clear, no-brainer WR options Buffalo has been in range to select? In 2023, they had potential picks like Smith-Njigba, Johnston, Flowers, and Addison, but when they tried to trade up, those teams weren’t willing to budge. This year, the only WR within reach was Brian Thomas Jr., but again, they couldn’t make a move to get up there. There were even rumors of the Bills trying to trade into the top 10 for guys like Harrison or Nabers, but that was a steep climb. I guess you can crucify them for trading the pick for Diggs instead of staying there and taking Justin Jefferson? But that's a benefit of hindsight, and they would have been guilty of the exact same thing you're crucifying them right now for doing. 

 

They find themselves in the same spot this year, they're not getting into the top 10 for Hunter (if viewed as WR) or McMillan. They may be in range for Burden or Egbuka, but both of those guys profile best in the slot and seem redundant with Khalil Shakir who is pretty damn good. That leaves Tre Harris in that late 1st/2nd range? Seems pretty similar to Keon Coleman, who had some flashes before the injury. 

 

What exactly would you have done after the 2021 season? Because that's after Diggs was brought in and the window with Brown, Beasley and Sanders closed. Who are you trading up for in the draft or signing in free agency? Warning, those big contracts in free agency look REALLY bad at first glance. 

 

2021 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Corey Davis

Curtis Samuel

Nelson Agholor

 

2022 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Christian Kirk

Allen Robinson
Marquez Valdes-Scantling

Russell Gage

DJ Chark

 

2023 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Odell Beckham Jr.

DeAndre Hopkins

Allen Lazard

Jakobi Meyers

 

2024 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Calvin Ridley

Gabe Davis

Darnell Mooney

Mike Williams

 

There have been 16, and MAYBE Jakobi Meyers has paid off. ***** we've had 3/16 at different points and everyone hated all 3 of them!

Edited 4 hours ago by JGMcD2

[billsfan714]

We just watched a superbowl where the eagles D had 6 sacks, held the Chiefs to 23 yards in the first half, the Chiefs didn't cross the 50 until the 3rd quarter and people on here are talking about a receiver.  We scored the most points in the NFL counting the playoffs.   Getting points isnt the problem, its stopping the other team.

[JP51]

32 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

What if only one of them gets fired. Say the Bills fire McDermott but Beane remains the GM. In that scenario Beane would be the one leading the search for a new HC. All of this time and Beane has never hired a HC before as he was hired after McDermott. 

See I honestly see them as tied...  BUT! to your point I would be less concerned if it was Beane hiring the head coach and not Pegula hiring the GM to hire the head coach...  that said.. doesnt a lot of this rest on Beane? I think he needs to evolve as well... 

[Gregg]

Just now, JP51 said:

See I honestly see them as tied...  BUT! to your point I would be less concerned if it was Beane hiring the head coach and not Pegula hiring the GM to hire the head coach...  that said.. doesnt a lot of this rest on Beane? I think he needs to evolve as well... 

 

Absolutely. Beane needs to do a better job with his draft picks especially in the early rounds. 

[TheFunPolice]

If Siriani can get to 2 and win one McDermott can too. 

 

I think it's as much about the Eagles roster and fantastic coordinators as anything Siriani does. 

 

Load up the roster and McDermott can certainly get it done.

[billsfan714]

15 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

If Siriani can get to 2 and win one McDermott can too. 

 

I think it's as much about the Eagles roster and fantastic coordinators as anything Siriani does. 

 

Load up the roster and McDermott can certainly get it done.

So who is our fantastic defensive coordinator?

[JP51]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

It probably won't happen, but it should. Even in some of the playoff wins the defense has struggled. The Ravens game for example. The Ravens drive right down the field for a potential game tying touchdown. Jackson made a poor throw on the two-point conversion, but it was still catchable and should have tied the game. The Bills defense didn't stop it. Baltimore screwed up on the play. How about a few years ago against the Dolphins in the playoffs. Some scrub named Skylar Thompson ended putting up a lot of points against the Bills defense. More often than not the defense fails to show up in big spots. Unless that changes then Allen is going to have the same type of career that Marino and Ewing had. Great players with no championships.

Well this being said... I think he may be a little more on the hot seat than we think... and I think it may stem from the players mostly... you need faith your leader is going to get it done... JA recruiting Garrett says a lot to me...  I think he gets this year... if he doesnt at least make it to the dance, I think the seat gets really hot.. at minimum new DC...  maximum out the door... so he best get it right...  he needs to cross the line and kick in the door soon...