Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[billsfan89]

McD is a great coach no idea why after this season a year where the Bills took 74 million in dead cap and got rid of a lot of veteran players and still won 13 games (could have been 14 had they needed it) as well as two playoff games, anyone would be thinking about firing McD. McD is not doing the same thing every year either. For years fans had a valid critique of McD being too conservative. McD this past season (and in the past two seasons) has been one of the more aggressive coaches in the league on 4th down and other decisions. 

 

McD is too loyal. McD fired Fazier and Dorsey as well as other coaches. McD's defenses suck in the playoffs. McD's defenses put together two good defensive games this past playoffs. The last remaining criticism is that he can't beat KC. At some point if the playoff failures mount esp after they got a chance to reset the roster cap wise then you have to move on. But give McBeane a couple of more seasons.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They have to be better on defense. Even when the defense was regular season good they weren’t playoff good.

 

They just have to be better, especially in the big moments. 

The 2014 Broncos were the 3rd best defense in yards and 16th in points. They were pretty good but not great. 
 

In 2015, a switch was flipped.

 

They jumped to 1st in yards and 4th in points. Even more impresssively, they did this with a middle of the pack offense, 19th in yards and 16th in points. Per drive, they were elite. 1st in yards allowed per drive, 1st in points allowed per drive, with the 30th best average starting field position.

 

i’ll give you 3 guesses what switch was flipped.

[JohnNord]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Help can come in many ways.

 

If you wanna play ball control-style with Josh, you better be able to win going away if the offense scores 27+.

 

What we can’t do, imo, is expect Josh to throw to a gaggle of third and fourth options AND need 30+ to win playoff games.

 

It’s a recipe for….losing too early in the playoffs every year.

 

Like we have. 
 

Either give Josh the help around to be a light show when they need to be or perform so Josh doesn’t need to be in a light show for 4 Q’s. Ideally, do both, but we have to pick one.

 

I believe, in my heart, if the Bills had BTJ, we would have been playing in the Super Bowl tonight.

I believe, in my heart, if Belichick was designing our defensive gameplan in the AFCCG, we would have been playing in the Super Bowl tonight.

 

This hybrid system of “Josh cobbles together a good offense out of wet newspaper and the defense forces 2 punts through 2 playoff games,” is what I cannot abide. Honestly.

I think that Buffalo knows they have to improve the WR talent.  I was very annoyed they didn’t do most in the draft last season.  

[stinky finger]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

No, it’s the people that would fire McDermott right now that would be considered terrible owners.

 

I didn't say fire him now. I commented on you giving him 3 years. His seat should be very, very warm. SB or bust next year. If not, can him. It'll be time to bring in another regime while Josh is in his prime years. 

[JohnNord]

8 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

McD is a great coach no idea why after this season a year where the Bills took 74 million in dead cap and got rid of a lot of veteran players and still won 13 games (could have been 14 had they needed it) as well as two playoff games, anyone would be thinking about firing McD. McD is not doing the same thing every year either. For years fans had a valid critique of McD being too conservative. McD this past season (and in the past two seasons) has been one of the more aggressive coaches in the league on 4th down and other decisions. 

 

McD is too loyal. McD fired Fazier and Dorsey as well as other coaches. McD's defenses suck in the playoffs. McD's defenses put together two good defensive games this past playoffs. The last remaining criticism is that he can't beat KC. At some point if the playoff failures mount esp after they got a chance to reset the roster cap wise then you have to move on. But give McBeane a couple of more seasons.

Ownership isn’t as reactive as the fans here.  They will get a few more seasons

[Mikie2times]

3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

McD is a great coach no idea why after this season a year where the Bills took 74 million in dead cap and got rid of a lot of veteran players and still won 13 games (could have been 14 had they needed it) as well as two playoff games, anyone would be thinking about firing McD. McD is not doing the same thing every year either. For years fans had a valid critique of McD being too conservative. McD this past season (and in the past two seasons) has been one of the more aggressive coaches in the league on 4th down and other decisions. 

 

McD is too loyal. McD fired Fazier and Dorsey as well as other coaches. McD's defenses suck in the playoffs. McD's defenses put together two good defensive games this past playoffs. The last remaining criticism is that he can't beat KC. At some point if the playoff failures mount esp after they got a chance to reset the roster cap wise then you have to move on. But give McBeane a couple of more seasons.

In fairness, we have had plenty of good defensive efforts in the wild card round. Baltimore never punted. We forced the turnovers. Credit to Buffalo for doing so, but it’s hard for me to feel as though the Baltimore game made me feel like we can play defense on a big stage. They rolled us, we forced the big plays. But then the next week the Chiefs took our lunch money (again).
 

But I also recognize this issue overlaps with our lack of talent on defense as well. I’m not thrilled with McD here, but ultimately he hasn’t had a very good defensive line since he came here. Perhaps some of that is his own doing as I’m sure he has a decent say in who we draft, but it certainly is on Beane as well. 

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, stinky finger said:

 

I didn't say fire him now. I commented on you giving him 3 years. His seat should be very, very warm. SB or bust next year. If not, can him. It'll be time to bring in another regime while Josh is in his prime years. 

Yeah… that’s not going to happen.  It would take a failure to make the playoffs for his seat to be warm.  I’m certain Terry is going to let Beane and McDermott finish out their contract as long as they keep winning 

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

McD is a great coach no idea why after this season a year where the Bills took 74 million in dead cap and got rid of a lot of veteran players and still won 13 games (could have been 14 had they needed it) as well as two playoff games, anyone would be thinking about firing McD.

 

I'm fine laying off of McDermott this offseason for all the reasons you mentioned. But that comes with the obvious caveat that all of these excuses go away next year. We're going to have close to $40M in cap space when the various restructure and cuts are done, and we have a lot of draft picks. The entire core of players is returning and both coordinators are back. So this year has to be the one. If the year ends in the exact same fashion - losing in the playoffs while giving up way above average production to our opponent - McDermott has to go, and he can take Beane with him. They cannot be allowed to lead Allen's career into his 30s after wasting all of his 20s. Just get it done.

[JohnNord]

49 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

In 2022 - that’s the draft (and AJ Brown trade) that got them 2 SB Trips:

 

 

Philadelphia Eagles 2022 Draft Picks

 

First Round – No. 13 overall (DT Jordan Davis) (*Acquired from the Houston Texans)

 

Second Round – No. 51 overall (C Cam Jurgens)

 

Third Round – No. 83 overall (LB Nakobe Dean)

 

Sixth Round – No. 181 overall (LB Kyron Johnson) (*Acquired from the Detroit Lions)

 

Sixth Round – No. 198 overall (TE Grant Calcaterra) (*Acquired from the Jacksonville Jaguars)

 

Philadelphia Eagles 2022 NFL Draft Weekend Trades

 

1. Eagles traded picks No. 15, 124, 162, and 166 to the Texans for pick No. 13. With that pick, the Eagles selected DT Jordan Davis.

 

2. Eagles traded picks No. 18 and 101 to the Titans for WR A.J. Brown.

 

3. Eagles traded pick No. 154 to the Jaguars for picks No. 188 and 198 (TE Grant Calcaterra) overall.

 

4. Eagles traded picks No. 188 and 237 to the Lions for pick No. 181. With that pick, the Eagles selected LB Kyron Johnson.

 

 

 

 

They traded a first for AJ Brown and still were able to draft Jordan Davis.   

More context.  The Eagles WHIFFED badly by selecting Jalen Raeger over Justin Jefferson.  Roseman knew he f’ed up so he took a big swing and landed AJ Brown.  
 

This is what Buffalo needs to do at Edge.  
 

Roseman took big swings and didn’t miss.  

[billsfan89]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

In fairness, we have had plenty of good defensive efforts in the wild card round. Baltimore never punted. We forced the turnovers. Credit to Buffalo for doing so, but it’s hard for me to feel as though the Baltimore game made me feel like we can play defense on a big stage. They rolled us, we forced the big plays. But then the next week the Chiefs took our lunch money (again).
 

But I also recognize this issue overlaps with our lack of talent on defense as well. I’m not thrilled with McD here, but ultimately he hasn’t had a very good defensive line since he came here. Perhaps some of that is his own doing as I’m sure he has a decent say in who we draft, but it certainly is on Beane as well. 

 

The defense played well against Baltimore, "they never punted" is a very flawed way of looking at that game. There weren't a lot of offensive possessions in that game. The Ravens had 8 possessions in that game. The defense forced 3 turnovers and a pair of field goals on 8 possessions. The defense also gave up 3 TD's but did stop the two point conversions on two of them. Considering the level of competition and how insane that Ravens offense had been most of the season holding the Ravens to 25 points is pretty good. Not an elite effort but not a bad one. 

 

I do think the defensive line is an area where the Bills need to be elite and they are just consistently "good" along the defensive line. I think the Bills are going to have to trade for a "war daddy" pass rusher. Maxx Crosby would be my bet. Crosby and Groot with AJE, Von (if he's willing to take a massive pay cut), and Solomon is a good set of DE's while the Bills will need a big run stuffing one tech DT. If the Bills can take their defensive line talent up a notch it will make a big difference. And I will say with the Bills cap being much cleaner and the extra 2nd round pick plus a nice complement of later and mid-round picks the regime has the tools to make these acquisitions. 

[Big Blitz]

14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

McD is a great coach no idea why after this season a year where the Bills took 74 million in dead cap and got rid of a lot of veteran players and still won 13 games (could have been 14 had they needed it) as well as two playoff games, anyone would be thinking about firing McD. McD is not doing the same thing every year either. For years fans had a valid critique of McD being too conservative. McD this past season (and in the past two seasons) has been one of the more aggressive coaches in the league on 4th down and other decisions. 

 

McD is too loyal. McD fired Fazier and Dorsey as well as other coaches. McD's defenses suck in the playoffs. McD's defenses put together two good defensive games this past playoffs. The last remaining criticism is that he can't beat KC. At some point if the playoff failures mount esp after they got a chance to reset the roster cap wise then you have to move on. But give McBeane a couple of more seasons.

 

Correct and I just essentially posted this in the new hires thread.  
 

He's a great HC.  But I’m not sure he’s hired the best DC but rather a guy he can work with - we don’t know how good a DC Babich is.  
 

 

McD and Beane are opening the new stadium.  Don't even waste your energy thinking otherwise.  
 

And they absolutely deserve it especially McD with his performance the last 2 years when it really could have unraveled with the Diggs situation and playoff failures.  
 

 

If by 2027 this team is still stuck or regressed then we can consider another direction and that would only be bc we’d be going into year 11 with no SB appearances under this regime.  

[SinceThe70s]

21 minutes ago, philholbroo said:

Tonight should show 1 thing, stop coaching scared. The eagles were not scared of KC. McDermott is scared and coaches against them that way, that's why they are able to stay in the game is easily.

 

The 1 thing I saw tonight was a defensive front that constantly pressured Mahomes in spite of not blitzing. afaik that's McD's philosophy but ourfront hasn't been good enough to bring the pressure. 

[Mikie2times]

17 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The defense played well against Baltimore, "they never punted" is a very flawed way of looking at that game. There weren't a lot of offensive possessions in that game. The Ravens had 8 possessions in that game. The defense forced 3 turnovers and a pair of field goals on 8 possessions. The defense also gave up 3 TD's but did stop the two point conversions on two of them. Considering the level of competition and how insane that Ravens offense had been most of the season holding the Ravens to 25 points is pretty good. Not an elite effort but not a bad one. 

 

I do think the defensive line is an area where the Bills need to be elite and they are just consistently "good" along the defensive line. I think the Bills are going to have to trade for a "war daddy" pass rusher. Maxx Crosby would be my bet. Crosby and Groot with AJE, Von (if he's willing to take a massive pay cut), and Solomon is a good set of DE's while the Bills will need a big run stuffing one tech DT. If the Bills can take their defensive line talent up a notch it will make a big difference. And I will say with the Bills cap being much cleaner and the extra 2nd round pick plus a nice complement of later and mid-round picks the regime has the tools to make these acquisitions. 

I just disagree man. They had over 400 yards, 20+ first downs, and over 7 yards per play. Even with 3 turnovers we ended up one self inflicted error away from a tie game. We got the win. It was a good first half game plan but we had no answers in the second half. Then with KC carving us up the week after it just showed we cant trust the playoff defense again. If we do it again (division level team) our defense will be high 20’s low 30’s, maybe worse. I would bet it all on that outcome. It is the outcome every time. 
 

I agree with the second part and to be fair based on my previous remarks, I don’t think we will be capable of defensive performance that is actually Super Bowl level until that happens. I don’t think the defensive line has ever been particularly good since McD got here. We have one player with over 10 sacks and that was a guy who made a pit stop here. It needs to be significantly better. All B talent and no difference makers. 

Edited yesterday at 05:41 AM by Mikie2times

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

I just disagree man. They had over 400 yards, 20+ first downs, and over 7 yards per play. Even with 3 turnovers we ended up one self inflicted error away from a tie game. We got the win. It was a good first half game plan but we had no answers in the second half. Then with KC carving us up the week after it just showed we cant trust the playoff defense again. If we do it again (division level team) our defense will be high 20’s low 30’s, maybe worse. I would bet it all on that outcome. 
 

I agree with the second part and to be fair based on my previous remarks, I don’t think we will be capable of defensive performance that is actually Super Bowl level until that happens. I don’t think the defensive line has ever been particularly good since McD got here. We have one player with over 10 sacks and that was a guy who made a pit stop here. It needs to be significantly better. All B talent and no difference makers. 

 

And they were missing Zay Flowers.   

[FireChans]

26 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I think that Buffalo knows they have to improve the WR talent.  I was very annoyed they didn’t do most in the draft last season.  

I go back and forth.

 

I thought Beane would attack the position in the best WR draft in a decade. He instead punted, to pick up extra picks for a backup 3t DT. Took my personal least favorite WR prospect of the top 10 guys. I’m not a scout though, so fine. 
 

He then brings an absolutely reprehensible WR group to camp. His “investments” in dudes like MVS and Samuel are disasters, compounding the issue. Mack Hollins ended up being the most successful with 345 yards total which is probably the most damning statement you can make.

 

All this ends up with needing to desperately trade for Cooper. And while I agreed with the trade, the downside of trading for a past his prime rental is that his impact was clearly limited by injury, and now we are out a third round pick for like 7 games worth of snaps? 
 

But this is nothing new. Beane has loved short term bandaids at WR. Emmanuel Sanders, bringing back Brown and Beasley when both were out of the league, promoting Isaiah McKenzie to full time slot, etc etc.

 

So while I’d like to say he learned his lesson, would it surprise me if he brought in a Tim Patrick-level guy, re-signed Mack, and drafted 1 WR in the 6th? It honestly would not. He has the memory of a goldfish I fear.

[Mikie2times]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

And they were missing Zay Flowers.   

They have a great offense so sure, they will get some. We forced turnovers and that was big. But at the end of the day I don’t know how you walk away from this season and go, well, at least the playoff defense gets a check. Just no. No way. You might not crap all over them either but it’s still a race to 30 for us. Same as it’s been. Blame whatever, whoever, for it. I’ve gone the rounds on McD but I think it’s at least fair to focus on what he has to work with and it’s just not very good defensively. 

[Awwufelloff]

We will never win the Superbowl with McDermott as coach. He's a good coach, not a great one. Just not smart enough, folds in close games against great coaches.

[billsfan89]

Just now, Mikie2times said:

I just disagree man. They had over 400 yards, 20+ first downs, and over 7 yards per play. Even with 3 turnovers we ended up one self inflicted error away from a tie game. We got the win. It was a good first half game plan but we had no answers in the second half. Then with KC carving us up the week after it just showed we cant trust the playoff defense again. If we do it again (division level team) our defense will be high 20’s low 30’s, maybe worse. I would bet it all on that outcome. 
 

I agree with the second part and to be fair based on my previous remarks, I don’t think we will be capable of defensive performance that is actually Super Bowl level until that happens. I don’t think the defensive line has ever been particularly good since McD got here. We have one player with over 10 sacks and that was a guy who made a pit stop here. It needs to be significantly better. All B talent and no difference makers. 

 

We can quibble over the defense against the Ravens, however I think there's a sense of agreement on the need for an elite talent along the defensive line and a high draft pick or two spent there. There needs to be a difference maker added to the defensive line. If you hypothetically added a Maxx Crosby to the group that's going to be massive it puts Groot as your number two DE and that's very good. It slots AJE and Von (if he is willing to take a massive pay cut) into depth/rotation roles while allowing Solomon another year to develop and hopefully take AJE's situational role. If you add a big 1-Tech DT to replace Austin Johnson and add another DT in round 2 to pair with Oliver/Jones/Carter you have the makings of a stronger interior D-line. 

 

The Bills defensive line has been "good" the Bills routinely finish very high in total sack rankings and usually have good metrics in pressures and other totals. I don't put much stock into 10 sack players as the Bills rotate so much that individual sack totals become deflated. However, the Bills D-line also lacks elite players. Lots of good and above average players but nothing dominant either. Just adding 1 big time difference maker like a Maxx Crosby is what this team needs. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

We can quibble over the defense against the Ravens, however I think there's a sense of agreement on the need for an elite talent along the defensive line and a high draft pick or two spent there. There needs to be a difference maker added to the defensive line. If you hypothetically added a Maxx Crosby to the group that's going to be massive it puts Groot as your number two DE and that's very good. It slots AJE and Von (if he is willing to take a massive pay cut) into depth/rotation roles while allowing Solomon another year to develop and hopefully take AJE's situational role. If you add a big 1-Tech DT to replace Austin Johnson and add another DT in round 2 to pair with Oliver/Jones/Carter you have the makings of a stronger interior D-line. 

 

The Bills defensive line has been "good" the Bills routinely finish very high in total sack rankings and usually have good metrics in pressures and other totals. I don't put much stock into 10 sack players as the Bills rotate so much that individual sack totals become deflated. However, the Bills D-line also lacks elite players. Lots of good and above average players but nothing dominant either. Just adding 1 big time difference maker like a Maxx Crosby is what this team needs. 

What really sucks is that we need to beat KC and the year to punish them for mismanaging their OT’s was THIS year.

 

I expect them to take 1 or even 2 OT’s in the first 3 rounds. Probably sign someone too.

 

Sigh

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

What really sucks is that we need to beat KC and the year to punish them for mismanaging their OT’s was THIS year.

 

I expect them to take 1 or even 2 OT’s in the first 3 rounds. Probably sign someone too.

 

Sigh

They’ve actually come back down to earth a bunch because they’ve been spending resources to shore up the tackle positions for years and keep blowing it lol

 

its not like they haven’t known they’ve had an issue there that they’ve been trying to fix 

Edited yesterday at 06:02 AM by Generic_Bills_Fan