Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[billsfan714]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Chiefs played TWENTY games this season. They scored 30 or more points in regulation a grand total of TWO of those games. Once was against the awful Carolina Panthers, in which they put up exactly 30…..and the other was in the Championship game….against guess who! 

Its bringing that Carolina connection with McD and Beane!!!🤪

[reddogblitz]

14 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

And yet McDermott lead us to all the games prior to the losses. I won't disagree that our defense is the problem yet I'm not blaming him for a missed FG by Bass that could have tied 2023 Chiefs game and we had a chance at the end of this season too. 

 

You gotta win big games to get to the big games.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

Yeah and Josh has 33 TDs(passing/rushing/receiving), 4 ints and a passing rating over a hundred and in the playoffs and you cant get that to a Superbowl.  You're a defensive coach and you cant get that kind of offensive production to the promised land.

That’s eye opening. 
 

In 13-games he averages 2.5 TDs a game to 0.3 Ints. 
 

That’s amazing with what he’s had to work with. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Obviously they should hire Vic Fangio. He’s like 1-8 vs Mahomes but the 1 is all that matters.

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I believe calling it “a stretch” is putting it very politely. 

 

There are some seriously miserable people around here. 

 

EDIT: So miserable they have begun to vomit!  😱

.

Kind of mindboggling to me that this topic has legs at this point.  Even for the McD haters this is a reach.  Somehow thinking the Bills "underachieved" this season gives a little light into the level of warped, wound up, predisposed hate that is festering inside some of these people.  

[Cash]

3 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

That's a really hyperbolic way to look at what argument is being made though because this is all a composite of the last 6 years. McDermott's side of the ball has let us down in 6 straight seasons. This year was just yet another in a long line. 

 

Let me ask you this...do you think any other team is having this same issue where an elite QB is playing very well in the playoffs and we still can't even get to a SB? Or even have this hard of a time getting past the Divisional? The Ravens haven't been to the big dance but they don't lose when Lamar plays really well in the playoffs...he just hasn't played very well in quite a few of them. There's no other team that is consistently losing with a top QB or really any QB in the playoffs that plays this well consistently. 

 

This has been a unique Buffalo Bills problem...what reason would you say is the cause of this?

What part of what I wrote came across as hyperbole? Just curious - I thought it was a pretty measured take TBH. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

I do believe he's gone if they don't get to a SB next season and/or lose to KC. It's business related. 

 

Those psl's need to be sold. And fans won't pony up money for an underachieving team held back by the HC/D. 

[Jrb1979]

8 minutes ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

I do believe he's gone if they don't get to a SB next season and/or lose to KC. It's business related. 

 

Those psl's need to be sold. And fans won't pony up money for an underachieving team held back by the HC/D. 

I disagree. As long as there is hope every season nothing changes. 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Chiefs played TWENTY games this season. They scored 30 or more points in regulation a grand total of TWO of those games. Once was against the awful Carolina Panthers, in which they put up exactly 30…..and the other was in the Championship game….against guess who! 

 

This is really the problem. Other playoff caliber teams make Mahomes at least uncomfortable. Houston, Baltimore, San Fran, Cincy, all of these defenses have performed decently against him. No one is asking to shut him down as bad as Philly did. Just make him uncomfortable like every other playoff team has been able to do. For us on the contrary every time he plays us it looks like he's warming up against the scout team. It's been like that every single playoff matchup since 2020. We've never forced more than two punts which is insane when you really think about it.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

After his rookie season, things have been more than fine. 

• Right away, they brought in Brown and Beasley for 2019—shrewd moves.
• Shrewd is a good word - but we remember those guys with rose colored glasses. Both Beasley and Brown were ~30-years old when we got them. They both aged out after two seasons, and for Brown it was one season. Both were upgrades on the atrocious WR room of 2018.
• In 2020, they paired Diggs with those two and added Gabe Davis, giving the team a strong receiving core with Diggs, Brown, Beasley, and Davis.
• Diggs was the right move. Beane took the risk out of the Draft and got an established veteran. No I’m not going to pretend I knew the Eagles would take Jalen Reagor instead of Justin Jefferson 
• Brown was gone after 2020, replaced by Emmanuel Sanders. So, in 2021, the group consisted of Diggs, Beasley, Sanders, and Davis.
  Emmanuel Sanders was the departure point for me. 33-years old and he talked about how he was contemplating retirement. He was out of gas by Week 7. 
• By 2022, the team was down to Diggs and Davis, with more expected from McKenzie and Knox. They also drafted Khalil Shakir.
• Yes the endless McKenzie experiment. 
• In 2023, Diggs and Davis remained, Shakir had a bigger role, they drafted a TE in the first round, and James Cook took on a larger role.
• This was a bad year - the free agents were both mediocre signings. Local media did their best to hype Sherfield and Harty. Under Dorsey they had no role. And this was a similar theme later in the season with Nyheim Hines, guys coming to the team who had zero role
• Despite the drama surrounding Diggs, which led to changes in the receiving group, the Allen won MVP with arguably the weakest WR corps since 2019
• Yes, the points per game output is great under Brady - right away the offense scored more after Dorsey’s firing, and it carried over into 2024. The Bills were great in turnover differential +24 in the regular season. 

The notion that they haven’t provided him with real WRs is misguided. This is the first year it's been questionable, and he still won MVP.

Davis as the #2 in 2022 and 2023 turned into a black hole for targets, and the McKenzie experiment got worse as time went along. Those groups were next to useless behind Diggs. 
 

I went to Bills-Browns in Detroit and in the pre-game it was Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, Shakir and Tanner Gentry warning up - and you could just see the Bills were small and out-athleted.
 

You’re likely frustrated when comparing the situation to teams like Cincinnati, Philadelphia, and Miami, who have dynamic WR pairings like Chase/Higgins, Smith/Brown, and Waddle/Hill. These teams were in a position to acquire such talent because they went through a period of rebuilding. After selecting their franchise quarterbacks in 2020, they had top 10 draft picks in 2021, which allowed them to target and land premier wide receiver talent. Cincinnati had already secured Tee Higgins, so adding Ja’Marr Chase in 2021 was an amazing draw. Philadelphia and Miami, meanwhile, could make aggressive moves to acquire star receivers like A.J. Brown and Tyreek Hill because their quarterback and WR1 were still on rookie contracts, giving them more financial flexibility.

Unlike Brandon Beane, I never faulted the Bills for not being in on Tyreek Hill. The money and picks as you stated, but Kansas City was not going to trade him to Buffalo. 

 

10 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

 

In contrast to other teams, there was no clear, slam-dunk wide receiver option for Buffalo to target in 2019. By 2021, however, there were three top 10 WRs in the draft, and two went in the first round. But even then, no WR was taken in the top 20, and Buffalo had productive veterans already on the roster. They went for the big fish with a trade for a proven star, rather than being able to draft a premier WR early. Since then, they haven’t had the opportunity to pick inside the top 20 again.

Now 2019 this is where the Bills could have done something. I remember screaming at the TV for DK Metcalf in the 2nd-Round, and to a lesser extent we knew AJ Brown was a workout warrior as well. But that picture of Metcalf was making the rounds, he looked like the Hulk. And instead we got Cody Ford. So that’s one for sure that the fans got right and the Bills got wrong. Metcalf is 6’3” 228 pounds and ran a 4.33 at the combine, had a 40-1/2” vertical and did 27 reps on the bench. That’s not a hindsight, that was a complete whiff. 

 

So, who were the clear, no-brainer WR options Buffalo has been in range to select? In 2023, they had potential picks like Smith-Njigba, Johnston, Flowers, and Addison, but when they tried to trade up, those teams weren’t willing to budge. This year, the only WR within reach was Brian Thomas Jr., but again, they couldn’t make a move to get up there. There were even rumors of the Bills trying to trade into the top 10 for guys like Harrison or Nabers, but that was a steep climb. I guess you can crucify them for trading the pick for Diggs instead of staying there and taking Justin Jefferson? But that's a benefit of hindsight, and they would have been guilty of the exact same thing you're crucifying them right now for doing. 
Nope, no crucifying for the Diggs trade.

 

They find themselves in the same spot this year, they're not getting into the top 10 for Hunter (if viewed as WR) or McMillan. They may be in range for Burden or Egbuka, but both of those guys profile best in the slot and seem redundant with Khalil Shakir who is pretty damn good.
I’ve been consistent in support of Shakir. As soon as I saw what he did against the Ravens late in the 4th and the Steelers with that catch for a TD I wanted him in over McKenzie and Crowder. The Bills never put him in though. I thought that was a good draft pick, because he was the last ESPN WR above 75, he was rated as a 78, in the 5th and after that the grades went off a cliff. 

That leaves Tre Harris in that late 1st/2nd range? Seems pretty similar to Keon Coleman, who had some flashes before the injury. 

Yes, agree with you here, same spot. Is Isaiah Bond an option for the Bills? We know he’s going to be in the 4.2’s. 

 

What exactly would you have done after the 2021 season? Because that's after Diggs was brought in and the window with Brown, Beasley and Sanders closed. Who are you trading up for in the draft or signing in free agency? Warning, those big contracts in free agency look REALLY bad at first glance. 

 

2021 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Corey Davis

Curtis Samuel

Nelson Agholor

 

2022 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Christian Kirk

Allen Robinson
Marquez Valdes-Scantling

Russell Gage

DJ Chark

 

2023 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Odell Beckham Jr.

DeAndre Hopkins

Allen Lazard

Jakobi Meyers

 

2024 - Guys that received a contract with an AAV over $10M

 

Calvin Ridley

Gabe Davis

Darnell Mooney

Mike Williams

 

There have been 16, and MAYBE Jakobi Meyers has paid off. ***** we've had 3/16 at different points and everyone hated all 3 of them!

Thank you for the thorough response. It gave me a lot to think about. 
 

I’ve boiled it down to the Top 3.

 

1. The 2019-Draft 2nd Round. I wanted Metcalf, he had the prototype WR #1 build. That kind of athlete is beyond rare. To pair a 6’3” 228 pound Metcalf with 6’5” 237 pound Allen. You’re not getting pushed around. Also, to pass on AJ Brown who is a physical specimen as well, I wanted him second to Metcalf. 
 

 

2. The 2021 decision to make Emmanuel Sanders the #2 WR was the start of the give up at WR and the chain reaction that decision caused, namely two years of Gabe Davis as the #2. In 2021 Beasley was in clear decline, Brown was gone. That led to the bottom of the depth chart falling out as McKenzie was assumed the #3 role. So really it was the 2022 offseason where I wanted the Bills to get another WR to pair with Diggs. 

 

You’re right about nobody being available in Free Agench as I don’t remember wanting any of these guys:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2022/position/wr/sort/contract_value

 

And really just George Pickens was someone the Bills could have had in the 2nd. 

 

But that was the first crack at Davante Adams, who was traded out of conference. 
 

Tyreek Hill went after that. Like I said, no way was KC sending him to Buffalo.

 

AJ Brown was another that offseason.

 

So there was a market for teams moving off clear #1’s and the Bills weren’t in on any of them. 

 

3. Watching the 2023 Divisional as Allen struggled to throw to Diggs, Trent Sherfield too slow to catch Allen’s deep pass, Gabe Davis out, Khalil Shakir not fully in his role, leaving just Kincaid, just again with no weapons, no deep threat, no speed.

 

So for sure I thought in 2024 Draft the Bills were going WR, they had. Then Beane slaps the fans in the face with the trade with the Chiefs, and fair or not, they get the guy they want and he’s the fastest player ever in modern Combine history.

 

And we got the 4.61 player who has played exactly like his scouting reports said he would. 
 

The Bills never double dip, and only keep 5 WRs on the roster. 
 

So here we are again Cooper is a FA, Hollins is a FA, leaving Shakir, Samuel and Coleman. 
 

Can they pry Pickens out of Pittsburgh? I know, I know, he’s not a McDermott guy. 
 

People scoff at Samuel and yes he’s no technician, he’s like all the 49ers players - overworked and breaking down due to their physical style, but still in his 20’s and would not break the bank.

 

Cooper Kupp who has had injuries and is slowing down now.

 

If Beane doesn’t make a trade, which I don’t expect, then Round 1 or 2 needs to be a WR for me. When Bond runs a 4.26, he won’t be there in the 2nd by the time the Bills pick. 
 

They have to get a deep threat on this team. Even if they take a flier on a Jalin Hyatt trade. Somebody who can open up that deep passing game. Of course he’s not going to be a volume player here, but he had a defined skill set coming out of college. 

 

I have no interest in re-signing Amari Cooper. Way too slow. 
 

 

Edited February 12 by Straight Hucklebuck

[JGMcD2]

9 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Thank you for the thorough response. It gave me a lot to think about. 
 

I’ve boiled it down to the Top 3.

 

1. The 2019-Draft 2nd Round. I wanted Metcalf, he had the prototype WR #1 build. That kind of athlete is beyond rare. To pair a 6’3” 228 pound Metcalf with 6’5” 237 pound Allen. You’re not getting pushed around. Also, to pass on AJ Brown who is a physical specimen as well, I wanted him second to Metcalf. 
 

They passed on two guys you like, after investing in over $50M into Brown and Beasley that offseason. By your own admission, the 2022 offseason is where you’re saying it felt like they gave up. This is hardly evidence that they gave up? 

 

2. The 2021 decision to make Emmanuel Sanders the #2 WR was the start of the give up at WR and the chain reaction that decision caused, namely two years of Gabe Davis as the #2. In 2021 Beasley was in clear decline, Brown was gone. That led to the bottom of the depth chart falling out as McKenzie was assumed the #3 role. So really it was the 2022 offseason where I wanted the Bills to get another WR to pair with Diggs. 
 

What else were they supposed to do going in to 2021? Sanders was a veteran with very recent Super Bowl experience, Bills had just gone to the AFCCG, it was a win now move. 
 

You go on to say below that there weren’t any FA you wanted, and the big name WR that became available for trade didn’t shake free until the following offseason. 

 

You’re right about nobody being available in Free Agench as I don’t remember wanting any of these guys:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2022/position/wr/sort/contract_value

 

And really just George Pickens was someone the Bills could have had in the 2nd. 
 

This is your opinion, so that’s fine, but no thanks from my perspective. This is guy is absolutely toxic - I wouldn’t touch him with a 10-foot pole. 

 

But that was the first crack at Davante Adams, who was traded out of conference. 
 

Tyreek Hill went after that. Like I said, no way was KC sending him to Buffalo.

 

AJ Brown was another that offseason.

 

So there was a market for teams moving off clear #1’s and the Bills weren’t in on any of them. 
 

Was it really realistic for them to be in on those guys in the first place? They had just given up significant draft capital for Stefon Diggs 2 years prior and given him an extension worth 4/$96 that same offseason. 
 

Adams fetched a 1st and 2nd round pick and then received an extension for 5/$141. 
 

Tyreek fetched a 1st, 2nd, 4th (x) and a 6th and then received an extension for 4/$120. Even then, he wasn’t an option for Buffalo. 
 

Brown brought back a 1st and 3rd and then received an extension for 4/$100.

 

It was never going to be realistic to commit $50-$60 million to two WR and give up a 1st+ for the 2nd time in 3 seasons. 
 

3. Watching the 2023 Divisional as Allen struggled to throw to Diggs, Trent Sherfield too slow to catch Allen’s deep pass, Gabe Davis out, Khalil Shakir not fully in his role, leaving just Kincaid, just again with no weapons, no deep threat, no speed.

 

So for sure I thought in 2024 Draft the Bills were going WR, they had. Then Beane slaps the fans in the face with the trade with the Chiefs, and fair or not, they get the guy they want and he’s the fastest player ever in modern Combine history.

 

And we got the 4.61 player who has played exactly like his scouting reports said he would. 
 

The Bills never double dip, and only keep 5 WRs on the roster. 
 

So here we are again Cooper is a FA, Hollins is a FA, leaving Shakir, Samuel and Coleman. 
 

Can they pry Pickens out of Pittsburgh? I know, I know, he’s not a McDermott guy. 
 

People scoff at Samuel and yes he’s no technician, he’s like all the 49ers players - overworked and breaking down due to their physical style, but still in his 20’s and would not break the bank.

 

Cooper Kupp who has had injuries and is slowing down now.

 

If Beane doesn’t make a trade, which I don’t expect, then Round 1 or 2 needs to be a WR for me. When Bond runs a 4.26, he won’t be there in the 2nd by the time the Bills pick. 
 

They have to get a deep threat on this team. Even if they take a flier on a Jalin Hyatt trade. Somebody who can open up that deep passing game. Of course he’s not going to be a volume player here, but he had a defined skill set coming out of college. 

 

I have no interest in re-signing Amari Cooper. Way too slow. 

There are some comments in the quote. 
 

So DK Metcalf/AJ Brown in 2019? Sure. It would’ve been nice in hindsight, not sure we can point to the decision to pass on those guys as “giving up.” 
 

Then it’s a clear mismatch between your wants and what’s actually realistic in the NFL. No team has attempted to give up the amount of draft capital and money to acquire 2 WR… ever. Let's just say AJ Brown was the guy they went out to acquire, because he was the most reasonably priced... this is what would've been given up acquiring Diggs and Brown in 2/3 off seasons. 

 

2020 first-round pick (No. 22 overall)
2020 fifth-round pick
2020 sixth-round pick
2021 fourth-round pick

2022 first-round pick (No. 24 overall)

2022 third-round pick

 

Stefon Diggs received an extension worth $96M over four years during the 2022 offseason and AJ Brown got $100M over four years upon his trade to Philadelphia. That means the AAV of those two combined was $49M, even if we were spreading bonuses around, it's just a lot tied into one position. Don't forget Josh had just signed his big extension the previous season and the cap hits were going to start creeping up.

 

Salary Cap in 2022 was $208M (24% of Cap)

Salary Cap in 2023 was $224M (22% of Cap)

Salary Cap in 2024 was $255M (20% of Cap)

 

They weren’t in a position to get a 1B type guy to compliment Diggs before he forced himself out. That bring us to this season, you’re upset because KC “got the guy they wanted”, by the same token, so did Buffalo. It may not be the guy you wanted, but they went and drafted a WR early. The notion of “giving up” isn’t true. They invested resources in other weapons like Cook, Kincaid and the offensive line - if Diggs hadn’t gone berserk, they were actually set up pretty well. Even then, Diggs went off the deep end, got traded and Josh has his best season to date. 
 

Now look, I’m in agreement that we need to upgrade the WR room this offseason. I’m just not sure that the last critiques are really fair, and it seems like after thinking through it more deeply, you’re realizing that too. 

Edited February 12 by JGMcD2

[colin]

i think mcd did his best job yet this past season.  he got the team closer to chip than he ever has, the team had real talent and injury issues, and even got into a little hole early at 3-2.

 

he's also made moves, special team and defensive coaching changes, and quickly, after the season ended.  he's never done anything close to bold before on the coaching front, so this is a bit of a watershed moment for him.

 

he will be accountable for his hand picked GM and his own performance this next season.  he's got to get to the bowl, and imo win it all to solidify himself.  as posted above in this thread, if he goes two more seasons as hc he's the longest tenured coach to never make a bowl next to marvin lewis.  given allen's historic greatness, and the d's total and pitiful collapse time and time again, his list of excuses will simply run out.  this isn't any kind of fair or whatever, but it never will be, it's NFL football where ray lewis is celebrated as some kind of moral paragon and frank reich is struggling to get back to his prior level of employment.  mcdermott can either be an all timer coach, or a bust off marvin lewis clone who squandered the greatest qb to play the game.  it's not fair, it's winner take all.

[GreggTX]

No. Just... no.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

12 hours ago, Cash said:

What part of what I wrote came across as hyperbole? Just curious - I thought it was a pretty measured take TBH. 

 

Because it's not true that the high majority of people that want McD gone are holding him to some kind of perennial "Super Bowl or bust" standard for every individual season...they're talking about what's happened over and over again for the last 6 seasons. McDermott's a defensive coach whose defense has destroyed us in the playoffs for 6 seasons in a row. That's not even mentioning his below par game management. 

 

We're seeing just about every other team be able to contain the Chiefs offense in the playoffs, especially the ones who have faced them multiple times. McD's defense is the only one that consistently gets ran roughshod over by them. The Eagles in this game forced 6 punts and 3 turnovers...we probably have something like 6 punts TOTAL over FOUR playoff games against them and I believe just one or two turnovers. I think someone in an earlier post said we've never gotten them to punt more than 2 times in ANY of those games. 

 

Our QB in the playoffs has 33 TD's and 4 int's and it's a huge struggle for us just to get out of the Divisional Round. QB's that are doing much less are getting to and winning SB's. 

 

McDermott has had 8 years here to install a defense that can literally contribute at all in the playoffs and he still hasn't bothered to do it. We're going on a decade....how long does he need? 15 years? 20?

[Gregg]

12 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

I do believe he's gone if they don't get to a SB next season and/or lose to KC. It's business related. 

 

Those psl's need to be sold. And fans won't pony up money for an underachieving team held back by the HC/D. 

 

The new stadium will buy the Bills a year maybe two. Rich Stadium opened in 1973 so by 2026 it will have been 53 years since the Bills had a new stadium. Fans are going to be curious to check the new place out. Even if fans get priced out of season tickets they will still go to a game or two. What it's like to watch a game there. The atmosphere and everything the new stadium has to offer. All of it is new so everyone will be curious to see it. Once the "shine" of the new place wears off then ticket sales will decline at those prices if the team isn't any good. 

[uticaclub]

2 hours ago, colin said:

i think mcd did his best job yet this past season.  he got the team closer to chip than he ever has, the team had real talent and injury issues, and even got into a little hole early at 3-2.

 

he's also made moves, special team and defensive coaching changes, and quickly, after the season ended.  he's never done anything close to bold before on the coaching front, so this is a bit of a watershed moment for him.

 

he will be accountable for his hand picked GM and his own performance this next season.  he's got to get to the bowl, and imo win it all to solidify himself.  as posted above in this thread, if he goes two more seasons as hc he's the longest tenured coach to never make a bowl next to marvin lewis.  given allen's historic greatness, and the d's total and pitiful collapse time and time again, his list of excuses will simply run out.  this isn't any kind of fair or whatever, but it never will be, it's NFL football where ray lewis is celebrated as some kind of moral paragon and frank reich is struggling to get back to his prior level of employment.  mcdermott can either be an all timer coach, or a bust off marvin lewis clone who squandered the greatest qb to play the game.  it's not fair, it's winner take all.

He does that every year

12 hours ago, Billsfanatic8989 said:

I do believe he's gone if they don't get to a SB next season and/or lose to KC. It's business related. 

 

Those psl's need to be sold. And fans won't pony up money for an underachieving team held back by the HC/D. 

Back to $20 tix before kickoff

[Ga boy]

11 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Thank you for the thorough response. It gave me a lot to think about. 
 

I’ve boiled it down to the Top 3.

 

1. The 2019-Draft 2nd Round. I wanted Metcalf, he had the prototype WR #1 build. That kind of athlete is beyond rare. To pair a 6’3” 228 pound Metcalf with 6’5” 237 pound Allen. You’re not getting pushed around. Also, to pass on AJ Brown who is a physical specimen as well, I wanted him second to Metcalf. 
 

 

2. The 2021 decision to make Emmanuel Sanders the #2 WR was the start of the give up at WR and the chain reaction that decision caused, namely two years of Gabe Davis as the #2. In 2021 Beasley was in clear decline, Brown was gone. That led to the bottom of the depth chart falling out as McKenzie was assumed the #3 role. So really it was the 2022 offseason where I wanted the Bills to get another WR to pair with Diggs. 

 

You’re right about nobody being available in Free Agench as I don’t remember wanting any of these guys:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2022/position/wr/sort/contract_value

 

And really just George Pickens was someone the Bills could have had in the 2nd. 

 

But that was the first crack at Davante Adams, who was traded out of conference. 
 

Tyreek Hill went after that. Like I said, no way was KC sending him to Buffalo.

 

AJ Brown was another that offseason.

 

So there was a market for teams moving off clear #1’s and the Bills weren’t in on any of them. 

 

3. Watching the 2023 Divisional as Allen struggled to throw to Diggs, Trent Sherfield too slow to catch Allen’s deep pass, Gabe Davis out, Khalil Shakir not fully in his role, leaving just Kincaid, just again with no weapons, no deep threat, no speed.

 

So for sure I thought in 2024 Draft the Bills were going WR, they had. Then Beane slaps the fans in the face with the trade with the Chiefs, and fair or not, they get the guy they want and he’s the fastest player ever in modern Combine history.

 

And we got the 4.61 player who has played exactly like his scouting reports said he would. 
 

The Bills never double dip, and only keep 5 WRs on the roster. 
 

So here we are again Cooper is a FA, Hollins is a FA, leaving Shakir, Samuel and Coleman. 
 

Can they pry Pickens out of Pittsburgh? I know, I know, he’s not a McDermott guy. 
 

People scoff at Samuel and yes he’s no technician, he’s like all the 49ers players - overworked and breaking down due to their physical style, but still in his 20’s and would not break the bank.

 

Cooper Kupp who has had injuries and is slowing down now.

 

If Beane doesn’t make a trade, which I don’t expect, then Round 1 or 2 needs to be a WR for me. When Bond runs a 4.26, he won’t be there in the 2nd by the time the Bills pick. 
 

They have to get a deep threat on this team. Even if they take a flier on a Jalin Hyatt trade. Somebody who can open up that deep passing game. Of course he’s not going to be a volume player here, but he had a defined skill set coming out of college. 

 

I have no interest in re-signing Amari Cooper. Way too slow. 
 

 

Yes I agree.  A burner is priority 1, then a pass rusher, then a CB.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

There are some comments in the quote. 
 

So DK Metcalf/AJ Brown in 2019? Sure. It would’ve been nice in hindsight, not sure we can point to the decision to pass on those guys as “giving up.” 
 

Then it’s a clear mismatch between your wants and what’s actually realistic in the NFL. No team has attempted to give up the amount of draft capital and money to acquire 2 WR… ever. Let's just say AJ Brown was the guy they went out to acquire, because he was the most reasonably priced... this is what would've been given up acquiring Diggs and Brown in 2/3 off seasons. 

 

2020 first-round pick (No. 22 overall)
2020 fifth-round pick
2020 sixth-round pick
2021 fourth-round pick

2022 first-round pick (No. 24 overall)

2022 third-round pick

 

Stefon Diggs received an extension worth $96M over four years during the 2022 offseason and AJ Brown got $100M over four years upon his trade to Philadelphia. That means the AAV of those two combined was $49M, even if we were spreading bonuses around, it's just a lot tied into one position. Don't forget Josh had just signed his big extension the previous season and the cap hits were going to start creeping up.

 

Salary Cap in 2022 was $208M (24% of Cap)

Salary Cap in 2023 was $224M (22% of Cap)

Salary Cap in 2024 was $255M (20% of Cap)

 

They weren’t in a position to get a 1B type guy to compliment Diggs before he forced himself out. That bring us to this season, you’re upset because KC “got the guy they wanted”, by the same token, so did Buffalo. It may not be the guy you wanted, but they went and drafted a WR early. The notion of “giving up” isn’t true. They invested resources in other weapons like Cook, Kincaid and the offensive line - if Diggs hadn’t gone berserk, they were actually set up pretty well. Even then, Diggs went off the deep end, got traded and Josh has his best season to date. 
 

Now look, I’m in agreement that we need to upgrade the WR room this offseason. I’m just not sure that the last critiques are really fair, and it seems like after thinking through it more deeply, you’re realizing that too. 

I think a few things. 

 

1. 2019 was not hindsight - There were athletes at the WR position to be had in the Draft. The Bills were coming off 2018 with UDRFA Robert Foster functioning as the #1 deep threat, Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Andre Holmes, Jeremy Kerley, Ray Ray McCloud, Deonte Thompson, McKenzie makes his first appearance off waivers. The worst WR room in the NFL. 

 

Again - Cole Beasley was 30 years old and a nice slot player for the Cowboys. John Brown was 29/30 and again, nice player, good not great production. Brown was gone by after 2020 (he really only gave the Bills 2019) and Beasley gave the Bills two good years before age sapped him. So this idea that this "investment" barred the Bills from drafting a WR in 2019 is wrong. The depth chart was still pathetic after the "investment". And who was the Bills leading WR in the Houston Playoff game again? Oh, that's right Duke Williams. 

 

The FO completely whiffed on Cody Ford, it started right away in Training Camp when he had to move inside to Guard. 

 

 

 

2. "By your own admission, the 2022 offseason is where you’re saying it felt like they gave up. This is hardly evidence that they gave up?" 

 

No, the point I knew they had given up was signing Emmanuel Sanders to be the #2 WR in 2021 FA. He was 33-years old and was talking about retirement before the Bills signed him.

 

 

 

 

3. After Sanders immediately retired after the season in 2021 (shocking development there) Gabe Davis was installed as the clear cut #2. The 2022 season with McKenzie as the #3, Davis as the #2, Diggs at #1 was again a neon flashing light that the Bills did not have enough at WR. Scored 10-points against the Bengals. 

 

So what did they do? Brandon Beane made excuses for Gabe Davis in the post season press conference about hurting his ankle in Week 2 and we brought back the same group to lead the way in 2023, this time with Dalton Kincaid and the two-Tight End attack now featured. 

 

So no, I am not going to crush the Bills for not drafting Puka Nucua, but they did nothing at WR but bring in Trent Sherfield, Deonty Harty and draft Justin Shorter. 

 

Hence the chain reaction I talked about.

 

 

 

4. I know getting two #1's is not standard operating procedure in the NFL. And certainly getting AJ Brown or Metcalf or McLaurin even in 2019 changes history when it comes to acquiring Diggs, but this is what we're discussing now - namely - how do the Bills devise something that catches the league by surprise? Now the Head Coach you're advocating for is asking the same question as the local media which has been on the radio everyday blasting a train horn for 3-years - where are all the playmakers? 

 

How do you defend this:

 

Drafts - Ray Ray McCloud (6th), Austin Proehl (7th), Gabe Davis (4th), Isaiah Hodgins (6th), Marquez Stephenson (6th), Khalil Shakir (5th), Justin Shorter (5th), Keon Coleman (2nd). 

 

It took until 2024 for the Bills to use a selection higher than the 4th Round to draft a WR with Josh Allen as their QB. Six complete seasons into his career. 

 

How could the investment into WR be any smaller realistically than this? 

 

Our GM is so confident about his strategy he trades with his arch nemesis and tells you its the best decision for the Bills - then says he was disappointed? 

 

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

17 hours ago, Logic said:

How about teams with very good to elite QB play who don't even MAKE the playoffs?

Herbert's Chargers have been subpar until this season and have missed the playoffs several times.

Burrow's Bengals missed the playoffs entirely this year.

Do we get to count those?

 

 

Because the question that's being begged to be answered is what exactly is it that's a net positive that McDermott is bringing to the table here? If his side of the ball, his proficiency, has let us down tremendously 6 years in a row which it has...and he's not a good in-game manager...we have a major Head Coach problem that's standing in our way. 

 

The Chargers DID make a change, and rightfully so. We've started the see the benefit of that for them and I think that uptrend is going to continue.  I'm sure Bengals fans share a lot of concerns over keeping their guy even though they have made it to a Super Bowl. 

 

I mean sure, you can count those if you want to. But why is our standard is to compare ourselves to the 2 absolute worst situations with very good to elite QB play rather than all of the other situations that are winning SB's? Or teams that probably could if their guy played anywhere close to as well as Josh overall has in the playoffs? 

 

McDermott has almost completely flushed the 20's of the best QB we've ever had because he can't put together a defense that can hold Mahomes under ridiculously gaudy numbers like completing 75% of his passes when this isn't happening for him against other top teams.

 

Just an honest question...do you think McD's defense has not been the primary problem of why we haven't gotten to the Super Bowl yet?

[colin]

44 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

He does that every year

Back to $20 tix before kickoff

 

he fires a coordinator every year?

 

he brings in more senior guys every year?