Is it time to move on from McDermott?

[DaVinci]

13 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Trust the process. I'm not even sure what that means 9 years later

 

[Jrb1979]

28 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The Bills massively overachieved this season despite eating a lot of dead cap via gutting a lot of veteran talent. Seems like McBeane proved this season they deserve a shot to take a roster that is already very good and add the final pieces to get over the top. This team was in the middle of a 17 year playoff drought in McD's first season and McD broke that drought with a team that was massively undertalented. The Bills showed prudence as an organization and didn't over invest in repeating those results and gutted the team so that in 2019 they could give Josh more talent. In 2020 they added a big piece in Diggs and the Bills were contenders. 

 

There will come a point where McD needs to go, but I think this season shows that McBeane may know what they are doing more so than fans who just want to fire coaches and GM's with great track records because they can't think of any other legitimate reasons why teams don't win a Super Bowl so just fire the coach and replace them with someone else who they will just blame for arbitrary reasons. 

 

Another big reason I don't see the need to move on from McD just yet is because McD has adapted as a coach. He was too conservative he's now one of the more aggressive coaches on 4th down and other in game decisions. He was too loyal and he has since proved he's willing to move on from coordinators and assistants not getting the job done. He's even brining in coaches from other organizations and schemes to expand his coaching staff. Even in 2023 when that article came out he adjusted his coaching style to be different and the team rallied around him to rattle off 5 straight to end the season and win the division and two seed. 

 

If McD was doing the same thing over and over again being too conservative and unwilling to move on from assistants while also being very ridged in his approach I would say your point might be taken. But I just don't think that's been the case at all. 

He has been doing the same thing over and over again in regards to defense.  It continues to be the reason they lose in the playoffs every season.  His philosophy of complimentary football doesn't work nor does his stop the deep play defense work against the best teams. 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

22 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Drafting Shakir and signing Mack Hollins were both great moves. Keon was showing flashes before the injury. The guy missed 4? or 5 weeks with that injury, derailing his season. 

None of these guys are legitimate receiving threats. What'd Hollins have, 400 yards on the season? Shakir what, 600?

 

Come on man 

[Pete]

23 hours ago, Gregg said:

 

Marv had more success taking the Bills to 4 Super Bowls. Saban had more success winning back-to-back AFL championships.

Saban and those 64 Bills teams were awesome.

Marv inherited a loaded Bills roster put together by Polian.  There are several hall of famers, and excllent players in all 3 phases.  That was the "bickering Bills",  several selfish players.   2025 Bills love each other, and are altruistic.

 

Neither compares to what McDermott has done.  He took over the Bills after a 17 year drought. It has been an amazing turnaround.  86-45 record. .656 winning %.  We have won a playoff game the past 6 years.

 

Yet ingrates want to run him out of town.

Edited February 11 by Pete

[oldmanfan]

20 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

None of these guys are legitimate receiving threats. What'd Hollins have, 400 yards on the season? Shakir what, 600?

 

Come on man 

Shakir 821 yards.  Hollins 280 yards and 5 TDs.  Legitimate.

[Orlando Buffalo]

18 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

The Eagles have over 20 million in cap space and just won the SB.   We had 70 million in dead money this year and we are still over next season.   Yeah Beane can restructure but that just pushes money out to future years.   Jesus 2 key pieces on offense need to be signed(Cook and Shakir), where is this imaginary money coming from to sign some stud DL?   Get use to more underwhelming Beane signings like Smoot and Toohill.

Not sure if you even read what I wrote, because you are not arguing against anything I said. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

None of these guys are legitimate receiving threats. What'd Hollins have, 400 yards on the season? Shakir what, 600?

 

Come on man 

 

Shakir had 800 odd. But he is what he is. A good complimentary piece. Not a feature guy 

[Magox]

58 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Shakir 821 yards.  Hollins 280 yards and 5 TDs.  Legitimate.

The Bills don’t need a big time feature guy at the WR spot.   The Bills have solid complimentary and competent guys who as a unit under Brady’s system, with this offensive line and Josh Allen form an elite offense.

 

The only thing this offense lacks is a WR who can win vertically with speed.   They don’t need a top tier guy to fill that role.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

12 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The Bills massively overachieved this season despite eating a lot of dead cap via gutting a lot of veteran talent. Seems like McBeane proved this season they deserve a shot to take a roster that is already very good and add the final pieces to get over the top. This team was in the middle of a 17 year playoff drought in McD's first season and McD broke that drought with a team that was massively undertalented. The Bills showed prudence as an organization and didn't over invest in repeating those results and gutted the team so that in 2019 they could give Josh more talent. In 2020 they added a big piece in Diggs and the Bills were contenders. 

 

There will come a point where McD needs to go, but I think this season shows that McBeane may know what they are doing more so than fans who just want to fire coaches and GM's with great track records because they can't think of any other legitimate reasons why teams don't win a Super Bowl so just fire the coach and replace them with someone else who they will just blame for arbitrary reasons. 

 

Another big reason I don't see the need to move on from McD just yet is because McD has adapted as a coach. He was too conservative he's now one of the more aggressive coaches on 4th down and other in game decisions. He was too loyal and he has since proved he's willing to move on from coordinators and assistants not getting the job done. He's even brining in coaches from other organizations and schemes to expand his coaching staff. Even in 2023 when that article came out he adjusted his coaching style to be different and the team rallied around him to rattle off 5 straight to end the season and win the division and two seed. 

 

If McD was doing the same thing over and over again being too conservative and unwilling to move on from assistants while also being very ridged in his approach I would say your point might be taken. But I just don't think that's been the case at all. 

I agree with you McDermott has evolved. 

 

He started as Bills HC trumpeting a strong run game to play in snowy Buffalo weather and winning the field position battle. I remember the interview on WGR well. 

 

This year it was evident that he was more joyful, happier, spoke frequently about how special the City of Buffalo is. 

 

 

But ... when you say arbitrary reasons and fans just want blood ... WR quality was again a major contributor to this teams downfall in the Playoffs. I know Beane says "we're close" - Brandon the team got halfway there to a Super Bowl victory. Once again Allen trying to throw down the field and it's Mack Hollins leading the way. Didn't double dip at WR to give yourself the best chance, traded out of the first round. They had to try something after the Allen 9/30 Houston game so Amari Cooper was brought in. Of course I was a fan of the move, they had to try something. 

 

And this is where you say but this is a Beane criticism. Well, as we've said that's the downside of a defensive head coach, Allen will lift good OCs and you're always at risk of losing those coaches. 

 

 

McDermott

 

So onto McDermott - a lot of debate right now on who to extend/re-sign - Benford, Bernard, Rousseau and Hamlin if you want him. This will use up the majority of cap space the team has, but also it locks the Bills further into the Sean McDermott defensive style. He is the one directing the FO on what type of players his staff needs. It's why it becomes an existential crisis for this team to take Taron Johnson off the field sometimes and put Dorian Williams in. It's why we have to employ a defensive line rotation, and why the Safety's play 20-yards down the field, and why good QBs eat his zone defense apart, and when the pivot to man defense there is always a weak corner to pick on. 

 

McDermott is the architect of the defense. He's had significant investment from the FO to support his vision. And it's a defense that continues to crumble in the Playoffs. 

 

More than anything it's the gut wrenching losses that are starting to pile up on his resume - up to and including 2020 was gravy for the team. As you said the 17-year Playoff drought ended, he eventually got over his man crush on Nate Peterman, and the team improved throughout 2019 and 2020. 

 

But 13-seconds was an all-time debacle. 

 

Then the team escapes the Wildcard in 2022, only to be hammered by the Bengals at home in which his defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier said the team had already developed a gameplan for the Monday Nighter and they were going reuse that. 

 

Then 2023 the team goes on the run to make the Playoffs, only to fall apart health wise against the Dolphins and Steelers so they are depleted against the Chiefs. 

 

2024, the team is better offensively than anyone really predicted, they lead the league with a +27 turnover differential, hit the Playoffs healthy, stop the Ravens, and once again can't contain the KC offense and the offense has a below average game for them and they lose again. 

 

So 8-years in now, 7-7 in the Playoffs, 7-2 at home, 0-5 on the Road. 

 

We're staring at the defensive line needing to be rebuilt, #2 corner is a need again, both Safety positions are weak, the best linebacker in 15-years is getting older. 

 

 

 

Bottom Line

 

The model for this entire McDermott-Beane build has been to draft, develop and retain. The results have been some good players in the draft, but few real difference makers. We've extended our own guys and the roster is now maxed out in cap space annually. We rely on restructures to get compliant every year. 

 

On the field it's a lot of Josh Allen covering for an average (being nice) group of skill position players. 

 

The defense has been atrocious in elimination games. 

 

Beane and McDermott are a package deal. 

 

The problem is the clock on Allen is ticking, next year he is 29 years old, Year 8. 

 

You don't win the Super Bowl next year, and now he's 30 years old. 

 

You're not firing McDermott and Beane, they get 2025. But if they lose another AFCCG (0-3), or a Divisional (2-4) I think it's more than fair to ask can this HC and GM even get you to a single Super Bowl? 

 

It's professional sports, you don't get to keep the job forever because you're a nice guy and adopt Buffalo as your home.

 

And I would think if Pegula did his research on HCs and GMs this year, there would be plenty of people that would investment more resources around Allen, and try a different style of defense. Pegula has done his part with the money. It's time for the Playoff results. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

The Bills don’t need a big time feature guy at the WR spot.   The Bills have solid complimentary and competent guys who as a unit under Brady’s system, with this offensive line and Josh Allen form an elite offense.

 

The only thing this offense lacks is a WR who can win vertically with speed.   They don’t need a top tier guy to fill that role.

Yeah that's a dangerous mindset in IMO. 

 

The Bills offensive line was almost 100% healthy last year save for Brown missing the Chiefs game. 

 

And the team was +27 in turnover differential. 

 

Simply rolling the ball back out there and expecting 30-ppg again is not a smart strategy IMO. 

 

WR continues to drag this team down. 

 

Also, hearing a lot of we're done at RB - just extend Cook, re-sign Ty Johnson, bring back Gilliam (both Joe Marino and Sal Capaccio have said this) - and I tend to disagree with that as well. This draft is loaded with good running backs. If the Bills want to meaningfully try and get an advantage on other teams in terms of league trends - pair Cook with another dynamic player and really go for it. 

 

It's just a thought, but simply running it back with the players the team already has is unlikely to meaningfully advance this offense IMO. 

 

Allen is the reason we have anything, and his presence requires constant investment. 

[JP51]

As someone who lived thru the 90s... with Polian, Butler, Levy and Marchibroda...  etc... I am hesitant to say move on or gut it... only because I see what can happen if you get it wrong... Butler manned the ship fairly well for a bit until he moved on... and then we went into the abyss..  I am not saying I am satisfied being the bridesmaid, what I am saying is does changing the entire make up of the coaching and FO make you better... I think there is always that possibility... for sure... sometimes it works.. But see... there is this thing... Pegula... he has shown time and again with both of his teams... he isnt likely to get it right... so do I want to blow it up and trust him to pick the right folks...  Not so sure I want to sign up for that... I think ultimately I would pin my hope on Beane and McD seeing the light and evolving over Pegula making the right hire... 

[zow2]

Terry Pegula is the least likely owner in the NFL (probably by a mile), to move on from a winning coach/GM combo.   He's traumatized by the Sabres troubles getting it right.

[BernieBill]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

Saban and those 64 Bills teams were awesome.

Marv inherited a loaded Bills roster put together by Polian.  There are several hall of famers, and excllent players in all 3 phases.  That was the "bickering Bills",  several selfish players.   2025 Bills love each other, and are altruistic.

 

Neither compares to what McDermott has done.  He took over the Bills after a 17 year drought. It has been an amazing turnaround.  86-45 record. .656 winning %.  We have won a playoff game the past 6 years.

 

Yet ingrates want to run him out of town.

The "amazing turnaround" is because the Bills happened to draft an MVP-level talent at Quarterback ... without Allen, McDermott is a middle-of-the-road coach who might be able to scrape out Wild Card appearances and 1st round exits ... McDermott is lucky as H*** that his tenure happened to coincide with drafting Josh Allen.  He's a 9-8 or 10-7 coach whose numbers look gaudy because of the superstar QB ... we can see every year in the playoffs how his defenses consistently get gashed and the Bills lose, even with Josh Allen.  How many coaches would have good-looking regular season records with Josh at QB?  Lots.

[Dubie54]

The Eagles just showed how to beat the Chiefs. If he can’t make the necessary adjustments this then time to move on.

 

Many on this board have been screaming about all the soft coverage he deploys, going back to the 13 seconds and again in this years AFC championship. We sit there watching the same sh#@t every year and where are the adjustments? What game film are they looking at?

 

This is the make or break year for McD IMO.

[billsfan714]

29 minutes ago, JP51 said:

As someone who lived thru the 90s... with Polian, Butler, Levy and Marchibroda...  etc... I am hesitant to say move on or gut it... only because I see what can happen if you get it wrong... Butler manned the ship fairly well for a bit until he moved on... and then we went into the abyss..  I am not saying I am satisfied being the bridesmaid, what I am saying is does changing the entire make up of the coaching and FO make you better... I think there is always that possibility... for sure... sometimes it works.. But see... there is this thing... Pegula... he has shown time and again with both of his teams... he isnt likely to get it right... so do I want to blow it up and trust him to pick the right folks...  Not so sure I want to sign up for that... I think ultimately I would pin my hope on Beane and McD seeing the light and evolving over Pegula making the right hire... 

As someone who also lived the 90s Bills, the problem was they never found a successor to Jim Kelly.    They hoped it was Todd Collins and he wasnt the answer. I will give Polian and Marchibroda more credit for the SB Bills than Levy.  After Polian left it was the beginning of the end imho.  Thats not the problem now.   Josh should be here for years to come.    I think McD has been given a good shot.   Im ready to move on from McD.   One thing people miss is Buffalo with Josh would be a very attractive spot for the next hot coach.   Elway didnt win a SB with Dan Reeves, he won with Shanny, Manning didnt win the SB with Mora.  Im not willing to watch the same movie for Josh's entire career.  Im still waiting to see a master game plan on D from Sean in the playoffs when it counts.

[JohninMinn.]

As long as Josh is the QB Sean should be the coach. Chemistry can't be tampered with.

[billsfan714]

19 minutes ago, BernieBill said:

The "amazing turnaround" is because the Bills happened to draft an MVP-level talent at Quarterback ... without Allen, McDermott is a middle-of-the-road coach who might be able to scrape out Wild Card appearances and 1st round exits ... McDermott is lucky as H*** that his tenure happened to coincide with drafting Josh Allen.  He's a 9-8 or 10-7 coach whose numbers look gaudy because of the superstar QB ... we can see every year in the playoffs how his defenses consistently get gashed and the Bills lose, even with Josh Allen.  How many coaches would have good-looking regular season records with Josh at QB?  Lots.

This times a thousand.   I said many times the Bills under Rex were basically a 500 team.  McD improves to 9-7 and gets into the playoffs thanks to Cincy.   Then we get a franchise QB.    You put Josh Allen on any .500 team and they will make the playoffs.   Were not going to regress to 5-12 with Josh if McD goes.   The fear of the drought years is because we had Rob Johnson, Doug Flutie, JP Losman, EJ Manuel, Trent Edwards, Fitzy, etc.   If you dump McD Josh is still here.

Edited February 11 by billsfan714

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

As long as Josh is the QB Sean should be the coach. Chemistry can't be tampered with.

 

Then bring in a new DC from outside the organization and let him have full control of the D because McDermott's defenses have failed miserably in the playoffs time and time again. The new DC can't and shouldn't be a puppet for McDermott to control as that will just lead more of the same failures on that side of the ball.

[Solomon Grundy]

I 100% agree with Emmanuel Acho. Mahomes IS NOT CLEARLY the best QB in the NFL!! If you give Josh Allen Andy Reid, he'd have at least 2 SB wins. Switch QBs and they'd both, probably, have similar careers. McDermott is the reason Josh hasn't been able to beat Mahomes in the playoffs 

[JGMcD2]

36 minutes ago, BernieBill said:

The "amazing turnaround" is because the Bills happened to draft an MVP-level talent at Quarterback ... without Allen, McDermott is a middle-of-the-road coach who might be able to scrape out Wild Card appearances and 1st round exits ... McDermott is lucky as H*** that his tenure happened to coincide with drafting Josh Allen.  He's a 9-8 or 10-7 coach whose numbers look gaudy because of the superstar QB ... we can see every year in the playoffs how his defenses consistently get gashed and the Bills lose, even with Josh Allen.  How many coaches would have good-looking regular season records with Josh at QB?  Lots.

Who exactly made the decision to draft Josh Allen? Was it the Buffalo Bills as a faceless entity, or specific individuals in leadership? This article provides a good look at the decision-making group—five people were on that plane experiencing the "mountain wave." Three are still with the team, while the other two are now picking in the top 10 for the third time in four years.

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/277930/on-josh-allen-bills-hope-all-turbulence-is-behind-them
 

After reading that article and revisiting 2018, did Josh Allen look like a surefire MVP-level quarterback? Or did the decision-makers have to develop a plan to get him there? Did he plateau after two of those decision-makers left, or did he continue to grow and win a MVP while the others made a conscious decision to move forward with Daniel Jones and then failed to develop him?

Perhaps Sean McDermott deserves more credit than you've given him for cultivating the environment that allowed Josh Allen to thrive, shaping the conditions for his growth into an MVP-level quarterback.

Edited February 11 by JGMcD2