Outcoached AGAIN

[Logic]

2 hours ago, BernieBill said:

Here's why blaming the coaches is a rational opinion:  you received the opening kick, you have a chance right there to go up 7-0 ... if you're ready to play, ready to execute.  The Bills go 3-and-out, punt the ball, and then watch Patrick Mahomes lead his team on a 90-yard drive to go up 7-0 and set the tone for the entire game.  So, if it's on the coaches to prepare the team to play ball, the team wasn't prepared to execute offensively or defensively right out of the box ... how is that not a coaching failure?  How is chasing points in the 2nd quarter of the game not a coaching failure?  How many times do you call the Tush Push and watch it either barely succeed or outright fail, and still call it?  

The Bills have been slaughtered by other team's offenses for 5 straight years in the playoffs ... 4 times by the Chiefs and once by the Bengals (in a non-competitive home playoff loss) ... how exactly does Sean McDermott, whose entire career is based on his defensive prowess, escape blame or repercussions for his team's laundry list of playoff failures?

The Bills are being outcoached in the playoffs every single year ... we have a large enough sample size ... so let's change nothing and run it back!

Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo are arguably the best offensive and defensive playcallers in the NFL, respectively. One of them is a first ballot Hall of Famer, and the other has four Super Bowl rings as a defensive coordinator. The Bills, meanwhile, entered this game with a rookie OC and rookie DC. What, exactly, did you expect?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it was ONLY the coaches to blame for the Bills losing. The players and front office are completely absolved, and it's all coaching. So...who in the league HAS been routinely out-coaching Reid and Spagnuolo? Do you wanna take a guess at which currently active coach has the most wins against the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs? 

What coach is walking through the doors of One Bills Drive that is going to outcoach Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo in next year's playoffs? I grant that somebody COULD, but there's no reasonable way to argue that said hypothetical person would have a better chance at doing it than, say, the guy who already HAS the most wins against the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs over the past five years.

 

But with that hypothetical out of the way, I'm sticking with my assessment: If you think it was JUST coaching that lost the Bills this game, that's your prerogative. Me? I saw a lack of game-changing personnel on both sides of the ball, a lack of execution in big moments (including by our franchise QB), and yes, a failure of coaching at various key moments, too. Like I said: I view it as a total organizational loss. Beane needs to do better, McDermott (and Babich and Brady) need to do better, Josh needs to do better, the players need to do better.

If you think it's as simple as "fire the coaching staff in bring in someone new", then I simply disagree. I think that isolating and blaming just ONE arm of the team (the coaching, in your case) is an overly simplistic defense mechanism, because it's much easier to say "this ONE thing cost us the game" than it is to say "our players didn't play well enough, our coaches didn't coach well enough, and our front office let us down by drafting three 1st rounders who didn't make a lick of difference in this game". It's much harder (though, in my opinion, more accurate) to observe that MULTIPLE aspects of the Buffalo Bills failed on Sunday. 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Logic

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

And you're not just correct and it's not hyperbole 

 

This is why adding more talent on defense won't matter 

 

In 2020 with a More talented defense 

 

The Phillip Rivers colts had 29 FIRST downs and almost 500 yds of offense lol

 

It's the coach guys

 

Only reason we won is because Allen went alien mode

Gee, I've only been saying this since 2018.  It's always been McD & his McScheme.  DL, too weak & too small.  LB's, too weak & too small. DB's, too small...too slow...and just too many out there guarding nothing but grass.

 

Is there a HC/ DC combo better than Reid/Spags in the history of the NFL?...No.  These two are in a realm of their own.  Maybe a Ben Johnson/ Jim Schwartz combo could've given them some headaches?  Maybe not?  But what's happening over these last 5 years vs. KC is flat out not working. So let's keep doing it for another 5 years.

Edited 18 hours ago by LABILLBACKER

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo are arguably the best offensive and defensive playcallers in the NFL, respectively. One of them is a first ballot Hall of Famer, and the other has four Super Bowl rings as a defensive coordinator.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it was ONLY the coaches to blame for the Bills losing. The players and front office are completely absolved, and it's all coaching. So...who in the league HAS been routinely out-coaching Reid and Spagnuolo? Do you wanna take a guess at which currently active coach has the most wins against the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs? 

What coach is walking through the doors of One Bills Drive that is going to outcoach Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo in next year's playoffs? I grant that somebody COULD, but there's no reasonable way to argue that said hypothetical person would have a better chance at doing it than, say, the guy who already HAS the most wins against the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs over the past five years.

 

But with that hypothetical out of the way, I'm sticking with my assessment: If you think it was JUST coaching that lost the Bills this game, that's your prerogative. Me? I saw a lack of game-changing personnel on both sides of the ball, a lack of execution in big moments (including by our franchise QB), and yes, a failure of coaching at various key moments, too. Like I said: I view it as a total organizational loss. Beane needs to do better, McDermott (and Babich and Brady) need to do better, Josh needs to do better, the players need to do better. If you think it's as simple as "fire the coaching staff in bring in someone new", then I simply disagree. 

I guess no one really knows. We do know McD had 4 opportunities and couldn’t get it done. There have been 3 different DCs and we have got the same result with this system. If McD was and offensive guy and this wasn’t his defensive system would it have lasted this long or would the guy running it be fired?  
 

Spags is a great D mind, but our O still moved the ball and put up points.  Last year in the playoffs they held the ball for close to 40 minutes and were out scored. That shouldn’t happen 

 

Andy is who we gotta stop and McD got no ***** answers. I read that the Chiefs were like 43% in the redzone this year but in the 2 games against the Bills they were a 100%. 🤔 .  Everyone looks at the missed FG and the dropped pass ended the games but the defensive took the field with 3 timeouts and couldn’t make a stop. On Sunday it was with 2 minutes left, last year I think a minute 15.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

56 minutes ago, Logic said:

Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo are arguably the best offensive and defensive playcallers in the NFL, respectively. One of them is a first ballot Hall of Famer, and the other has four Super Bowl rings as a defensive coordinator. The Bills, meanwhile, entered this game with a rookie OC and rookie DC. What, exactly, did you expect?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that it was ONLY the coaches to blame for the Bills losing. The players and front office are completely absolved, and it's all coaching. So...who in the league HAS been routinely out-coaching Reid and Spagnuolo? Do you wanna take a guess at which currently active coach has the most wins against the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs? 

What coach is walking through the doors of One Bills Drive that is going to outcoach Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo in next year's playoffs? I grant that somebody COULD, but there's no reasonable way to argue that said hypothetical person would have a better chance at doing it than, say, the guy who already HAS the most wins against the Mahomes/Reid Chiefs over the past five years.

 

But with that hypothetical out of the way, I'm sticking with my assessment: If you think it was JUST coaching that lost the Bills this game, that's your prerogative. Me? I saw a lack of game-changing personnel on both sides of the ball, a lack of execution in big moments (including by our franchise QB), and yes, a failure of coaching at various key moments, too. Like I said: I view it as a total organizational loss. Beane needs to do better, McDermott (and Babich and Brady) need to do better, Josh needs to do better, the players need to do better.

If you think it's as simple as "fire the coaching staff in bring in someone new", then I simply disagree. I think that isolating and blaming just ONE arm of the team (the coaching, in your case) is an overly simplistic defense mechanism, because it's much easier to say "this ONE thing cost us the game" than it is to say "our players didn't play well enough, our coaches didn't coach well enough, and our front office let us down by drafting three 1st rounders who didn't make a lick of difference in this game". It's much harder (though, in my opinion, more accurate) to observe that MULTIPLE aspects of the Buffalo Bills failed on Sunday. 

 

Very well said.

 

People want to find the quick answer as if there is a keystone piece that lead to their failure. The reality here is that it was a complete team loss.

 

Its easy to say the coaches have to call better plays in hindsight. It’s easy to say Allen should have thrown the swing pass to Shakir. All of this may be correct, but not the only reason they lost. 
 

There are many, MANY game defining moments that no one seems to remember. 
 

My example here is the 1st&10 on the final drive of the game. Connor McGovern is beat across his face and Ty Johnson is blown up in the back field resulting in a second and long. Do we all rally and say, McGovern blew us the game?!?! 
 

I think calmer heads will prevail and people will realize that this team is still very very good. A handful of things go differently in that game (a call, a block, a catch, a pass) and we are having very different conversations right now. 

[Jerome007]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Andy Reid and Steve Spagnuolo are arguably the best offensive and defensive playcallers in the NFL, respectively. One of them is a first ballot Hall of Famer, and the other has four Super Bowl rings as a defensive coordinator. The Bills, meanwhile, entered this game with a rookie OC and rookie DC. What, exactly, did you expect?

If you think it's as simple as "fire the coaching staff in bring in someone new", then I simply disagree. 

 

Reid and Spagnola are much better coaches, no doubt, but what getting rid of McD would do? It would depend on WHO would replace him. So for people wanting his firing, go ahead, suggest HC candidates available right now. Not just "fire McD".  Do you "fire" Cook because Barkley is better? Who would say that makes sense?

 

As for never beating the Chiefs. While the cold hard fact is that while the Bills are 0-4 against them in the playoffs, losing by one field goal, in OT, by 3 points... it's a clear sign they CAN beat them, even if they haven't. Which is why it's soooo frustrating. 

 

Even the KC Superbowl last year was won in OT, yet somehow, it's like they are way above every other team according to the narrative. It's quite maddening they keep on winning. But they ARE beatable.

[BananaB]

12 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

 

Reid and Spagnola are much better coaches, no doubt, but what getting rid of McD would do? It would depend on WHO would replace him. So for people wanting his firing, go ahead, suggest HC candidates available right now. Not just "fire McD".  Do you "fire" Cook because Barkley is better? Who would say that makes sense?

 

As for never beating the Chiefs. While the cold hard fact is that while the Bills are 0-4 against them in the playoffs, losing by one field goal, in OT, by 3 points... it's a clear sign they CAN beat them, even if they haven't. Which is why it's soooo frustrating. 

 

Even the KC Superbowl last year was won in OT, yet somehow, it's like they are way above every other team according to the narrative. It's quite maddening they keep on winning. But they ARE beatable.

Spags name keeps getting brought up like they are shutting our O down, they ain’t. They have stopped them in key situation but the O is still scoring enough to win games against them. 
 

It’s the McD D vs Reid that is the problem.  And that’s why the HC change is probably more talked about. Let’s face it, if it was a different DC and he was running his own system he’d probably be fired by now. Maybe even long ago. But because it’s McD system we are stuck riding it out hoping we can make one more play next time instead of fixing a clear problem.  
 

 

[Buffalo716]

People act like spagnola held us to 10 LOL 

 

He makes some good calls.. he also gets the favorability of ref spots .. his corners are allowed to mug 

 

And  Chris Jones 

 

Something the bills don't get either of those three 

 

He's a good defensive coordinator he's not this all world guy like some prop him to be 

 

He has called bad defenses in his career as well ,he's a guy who needs all the pieces ... When he doesn't his team struggles

 

In fact he does not develop six round picks as good as McDermott.. he's good at maximizing high end talent 

 

Sean literally trots out 6th round pics and make them look like NFL starters

Edited 16 hours ago by Buffalo716

[BananaB]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

People act like spagnola held us to 10 LOL 

 

He makes some good calls.. he also gets the favorability of ref spots .. his corners are allowed to mug 

 

And  Chris Jones 

 

Something the bills don't get either of those three 

 

He's a good defensive coordinator he's not this all world guy like some prop him to be 

 

He has called bad defenses in his career as well ,he's a guy who needs all the pieces ... When he doesn't his team struggles

 

In fact he does not develop six round picks as good as McDermott.. he's good at maximizing high end talent 

 

Sean literally trots out 6th round pics and make them look like NFL starters

Seems like you’re kind of acting like McD has held them to 10. 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Seems like you’re kind of acting like McD has held them to 10. 

I'm not commenting on the lack of McDermott's success 

 

I'm commenting on all the people who think spagnola is on some dick lebau or Bill belichick level 

 

He's literally not even close.. he's a really good coordinator for maximizes great pieces but without great pieces is pretty average 

 

McDermott literally develops guys like Levi Wallace and dane Jackson Benford, Milano... Super late round pics .. took castaways like poyer made him all pro

 

That's not part of his wheelhouse

Edited 16 hours ago by Buffalo716

[BananaB]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I'm not commenting on the lack of McDermott's success 

 

I'm commenting on all the people who think spagnola is on some dick lebau or Bill belichick level 

 

He's literally not even close.. he's a really good coordinator for maximizes great pieces but without great pieces is pretty average 

 

McDermott literally develops guys like Levi Wallace and dane Jackson 

 

That's not part of his wheelhouse

McD ain’t nothing to brag about though. They fall short all the time. Maybe it’s because he struggles to gets the best out of his high picks and better at maximizing his low picks. Either way, the D sucks

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

McD ain’t nothing to brag about though. They fall short all the time. Maybe it’s because he struggles to gets the best out of his high picks and better at maximizing his low picks. Either way, the D sucks

It's a team game 

 

The offense had the ball down three with 3 minutes left and couldn't get it done 

 

And I'm not blaming the offense it takes all the players on the team in a championship game 

 

The team didn't get it done.. there's a reason why nobody wants spagnola as a head coach and Sean McDermott would have a job tomorrow if fired

 

Maybe the Kansas City Chiefs have more talent on defense and Brandon Bean isn't giving us enough

Edited 16 hours ago by Buffalo716

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's a team game 

 

The offense had the ball down three with 3 minutes left and couldn't get it done 

 

And I'm not blaming the offense it takes all the players on the team in a championship game 

 

The team didn't get it done.. there's a reason why nobody wants spagnola as a head coach and Sean McDermott would have a job tomorrow if fired

 

Maybe the Kansas City Chiefs have more talent on defense and Brandon Bean isn't giving us enough

And the D had 3 timeouts when they stepped on the field, just like last year. How come they couldn’t make the stop. Everyone has this idea that the game was completely over when the O stalled, it wasn’t. Teams with a good D may have even punted in that 4th down situation.

 

Beane hasn’t given us great talent, but we have a defensive minded HC who hasn’t got  the best out of his high draft picks. Blame Beane, blame McD they are both attached at the hip in this. Maybe if McD wasn’t so hesitant to put Bishop on the field early in the season instead of Damar we wouldn’t have to watch the pathetic ***** we seen on Sunday from the both of them. 

 

 

[tigerthelion]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

It's a team game 

 

The offense had the ball down three with 3 minutes left and couldn't get it done 

 

And I'm not blaming the offense it takes all the players on the team in a championship game 

 

The team didn't get it done.. there's a reason why nobody wants spagnola as a head coach and Sean McDermott would have a job tomorrow if fired

 

Maybe the Kansas City Chiefs have more talent on defense and Brandon Bean isn't giving us enough

No maybe about it. The Chiefs definitely have more talent on defense.  I tend to think that McDermott has a big say in who Beane gets on defense, so in that respect, McDermott shoulders some of the blame for lack of defensive talent.

[Buffalo716]

6 minutes ago, BananaB said:

And the D had 3 timeouts when they stepped on the field, just like last year. How come they couldn’t make the stop. Everyone has this idea that the game was completely over when the O stalled, it wasn’t. Teams with a good D may have even punted in that 4th down situation.

 

Beane hasn’t given us great talent, but we have a defensive minded HC who hasn’t got  the best out of his high draft picks. Blame Beane, blame McD they are both attached at the hip in this. Maybe if McD wasn’t so hesitant to put Bishop on the field early in the season instead of Damar we wouldn’t have to watch the pathetic ***** we seen on Sunday from the both of them. 

 

 

Any single player who played football at a high level knows Sean McDermott has the most complex coverage scheme in the world 

 

Sean McDermott does things in the back end that are at the forefront revolutionary and complex 

 

He's not running some vanilla scheme.. we don't have a Hall of Fame defensive lineman wrecking lines we have a Hall of famer coming off a torn muscle

 

The front doesn't get home consistently enough but at the end of the day that's on the guys.. groot and AJ and DJ and all eight guys need to bring more in a winner take all game

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Buffalo716

[BananaB]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Any single player who played football at a high level knows Sean McDermott has the most complex coverage scheme in the world 

 

Sean McDermott does things in the back end that are at the forefront revolutionary and complex 

 

He's not running some vanilla scheme.. we don't have a Hall of Fame defensive lineman wrecking lines we have a Hall of famer coming off a torn muscle

 

The front doesn't get home consistently enough but at the end of the day that's on the guys.. groot and AJ and DJ and all eight guys need to bring more in a winner take all game

 

So complex third and long is third and easy for opposing QBs. 
 

Your giving to much credit for a scheme that has failed us in the most important situations 

Edited 15 hours ago by BananaB

[Buffalo716]

Just now, BananaB said:

So complex third and long is third and easy for opposing QBs

I implore you to listen to Tom Brady breakdown McDermott scheme or romo or any person 

 

Nobody in the world does what Sean does in the back half consistently 

 

It's easy to convert 3rd and long when your front four doesn't get home that's what it comes back to

[BananaB]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

I implore you to listen to Tom Brady breakdown McDermott scheme or romo or any person 

 

Nobody in the world does what Sean does in the back half consistently 

 

It's easy to convert 3rd and long when your front four doesn't get home that's what it comes back to

The guys up front are the guys he brought in and that’s part of his system to. But keep sucking his nuts about the back end that continues to let the team down. 

[Mikie2times]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Possibly. But they tried things outside of their normal scheme first half on Sunday and they were shredded. When they got back to more of their core scheme 2nd half they improved.

They played more man in the first matchup than they did all season. Maybe they should have saved those looks? 

[Buffalo716]

Just now, BananaB said:

The guys up front are the guys he brought in and that’s part of his system to. But keep sucking his nuts about the back end that continues to let the team down. 

Technically the GM brings in the players 

 

We all can have our opinion about who's really running the show but at the end of the day Sean McDermott's not the GM like Bill belichick was 

 

Sean McDermott doesn't watch enough college football to be knocking down the door for Dwayne Carter ... And they have pro personnel guys to tell them who the best available guys are in the pros 

 

He listens to the people around him

 

He is not the footballs czar.. Brandon Beane is the general manager in charge of bringing in players even if McDermott and him talk 

 

he has to bring in the best players

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I would like to see a poll if you could go back into the future and sign Ben Johnson over McD right now would you do it.