Outcoached AGAIN

[colin]

2 minutes ago, Preds said:

I love this arrogant type of response.  Enjoy your Shottenheimer/Lewis level coach that will never get over the hump and will waste away the 2nd half of Josh's career without an appearance in the Super Bowl, much less a championship, .  McD can't take this team any farther, and the only reason McD and his crap defense has the record he has is because of #17.

The drought era coaches would win 10 games+ each season with 17.  

McD and our JV level staff are anchor's on Josh's greatness and holding him back from being a champion.

 

the didn't run cook (four carries in the first half, no touches on the final drive) who was clearly the best player on the field.

 

on d, they put a spy on mahomes zero times.  he ran for a bunch of first downs and two tubs.  our d is an underpowered open book for opponents, and on O, they just have to hold out until we run the same play out of the same formation that we have before (tush push and the empty w the orbit on the last play).  if we had kept going to cook, and went to him early, we wear down their d and score more in the first half and watch kc fail to get enough points or miss an onside to close out the game.

 

it was right there, AND THEY LET THEM OFF THE HOOK, THEY ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY ARE!

 

marv lewis was in a much tougher division and had a much worse qb, he'd do no worse with this team IMO

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

They were one of the best defences of all time … the Bills likely won’t reach that talent level…  so I hope that isn’t a requirement of the scheme …

 

Anyone else … or have the Bills got to repeat what has only been done once before by one of the best defences in recent memory ? 

 

 

 

The Bills have got to beat what is potentially one game away from being the greatest dynasty in the history of the sport. Take them away the Bills might already have won with their scheme. 

 

I only go back to 02, and really to 06 as a committed every week NFL watcher, so I can't tell you a ton first hand about schemes before that.

[longtimebillsfan]

7 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

I would be ok with Pegula asking McDermott to fire his special teams coordinator and defensive coordinator,  replace them with people from the outside.  People that have Super bowl experience 

 

 

That I agree with.  I would Iove to see the Bills hire a proven defensive coordinator like Jim Schartz.  I also agree our special teams needs a new coach as well.

 

[Mikie2times]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills have got to beat what is potentially one game away from being the greatest dynasty in the history of the sport. Take them away the Bills might already have won with their scheme. 

 

I only go back to 02, and really to 06 as a committed every week NFL watcher, so I can't tell you a ton first hand about schemes before that.

Since 2020 they have played 16 playoff games and scored 28+ 5 times. 3 have been verse us. The other they scored 27. 

 

So is it fair to shift the question away from can we win with scheme to is this the optimal scheme vs KC? 

Edited yesterday at 05:18 AM by Mikie2times

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Since 2020 they have played 16 playoff games and scored 28+ 5 times. 3 have been verse us. The other they scored 27. 

 

So is it fair to shift the question away from can we win with scheme to is this the optimal scheme vs KC? 

 

I'll be honest I don't think it's the scheme. Any scheme within reason can win in the NFL if coached and executed properly. We tried different things in this playoff run - more man, not 100% nickel, etc. - and none of it mattered. To me it's just about the coaching in general. The game planning, the details, the play calling in critical moments. That's where we are falling way short.

[Kelly to Allen]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'll be honest I don't think it's the scheme. Any scheme within reason can win in the NFL if coached and executed properly. We tried different things in this playoff run - more man, not 100% nickel, etc. - and none of it mattered. To me it's just about the coaching in general. The game planning, the details, the play calling in critical moments. That's where we are falling way short.

 

You can't force someone to see things they can't see. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Since 2020 they have played 16 playoff games and scored 28+ 5 times. 3 have been verse us. The other they scored 27. 

 

So is it fair to shift the question away from can we win with scheme to is this the optimal scheme vs KC? 

 

Possibly. But they tried things outside of their normal scheme first half on Sunday and they were shredded. When they got back to more of their core scheme 2nd half they improved.

[Kelly to Allen]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Possibly. But they tried things outside of their normal scheme first half on Sunday and they were shredded. When they got back to more of their core scheme 2nd half they improved.

 

They forced 2 punts man. Like it was terrible 

 

There was multiple drives where they didn't even need to convert a 3rd down 

Edited yesterday at 08:06 AM by Kelly to Allen

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

They forced 2 punts man. Like it was terrible 

 

There was multiple drives where they didn't even need to convert a 3rd down 

 

2nd half was punt, punt, touchdown, field goal, end of game.

 

1st half was terrible, no question. And 1st half was them trying to be someone they are not with a ton of man coverage. 

[Kelly to Allen]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

2nd half was punt, punt, touchdown, field goal, end of game.

 

1st half was terrible, no question. And 1st half was them trying to be someone they are not with a ton of man coverage. 

 

If this defense can never just be above avg in a critical playoff game,  doesn't that tell us everything we need to know.

 

I feel like we're just fooling ourselves thinking it's going to magically just work out. There's systemic issues on defense. The 3rd down defense for example is getting worse exponentially 

 

Bruce Smith isn't walking through that door 

Maybe if they had a truly great pass rusher someone could talk me into thinking that the talent could overcome some coaching deficiencies 

Edited yesterday at 08:31 AM by Kelly to Allen

[DuckyBoys]

Basically we need to find a " Josh Allen" on defense and we'll be set  That will make up for soft zone with small slow players and a passive HC who would rather lose close by death of a tiny cuts than go for the win.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Possibly. But they tried things outside of their normal scheme first half on Sunday and they were shredded. When they got back to more of their core scheme 2nd half they improved.

You wonder how much the Benford injury played into that.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

How many years in a row are we gonna say the same thing? Should’ve been gone after 13 seconds. Any one of us here can coach a zone defense that doesn’t adapt to the situation. 
 

you ever meet someone who seems to be always doing or saying the wrong thing? Not even on purpose but they’re just snake bitten as they’d say. That’s Sean McDermott. 

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Bills have got to beat what is potentially one game away from being the greatest dynasty in the history of the sport. Take them away the Bills might already have won with their scheme. 

 

I only go back to 02, and really to 06 as a committed every week NFL watcher, so I can't tell you a ton first hand about schemes before that.

the Bills should be that dynasty. Chiefs are only that dynasty because they beat the bills 4 times. “Would have won” how many times? Loser loser loser mentality. I want 3 super bowls with Allen and McDermott already squandered a few. Loser 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

If this defense can never just be above avg in a critical playoff game,  doesn't that tell us everything we need to know.

 

I feel like we're just fooling ourselves thinking it's going to magically just work out. There's systemic issues on defense. The 3rd down defense for example is getting worse exponentially 

 

Bruce Smith isn't walking through that door 

Maybe if they had a truly great pass rusher someone could talk me into thinking that the talent could overcome some coaching deficiencies 

 

I don't think anyone is denying the problems on defense, particularly against Kansas City in playoff games. And I certainly don't think it is magically just going to work out. 

 

But we need to be really clear headed in trying to analyse what the issues are. Is it system? Is it adjustments? Is it play calling? Is it talent? If it's a combination of each where are the easiest fixes. 

 

I have said all year I think this year is slightly different to the losses in 2020 and 2021 when the Bills actually had good defenses that then got shredded by the Chiefs. And it is a bit different to last year in the sense that the Bills were broadly healthy (I know Benford went out early but tbh the die was already somewhat cast in that first half). This year the Bills defense has not been good. The third down defense was 29th in the league. I like 3rd down as a true test of a defense. Both yards and points can be influenced by offense, they can be influenced by special teams. 3rd down defense just measures your D against their O when it matters most. And in that regard the Bills were bad in 2024. It has to get better. 

 

So then you get to why. For me:

1. This was the least talented defense the Bills have fielded since at least 2017 - they need a talent upgrade at multiple spots: free safety, outside corner (Douglas sucked this year and is a FA anyway), edge rusher, 1 tech.

2. They need Bobby Babich to learn and grow. I like him in terms of his approach, he speaks very well, I know he is highly thought of in the building for his energy and coaching abilities but in his first year as the coordinator I found his gameplans and play calling to be impulsive, impatient and at times downright naïve. 

 

Specifically in terms of getting past the Chiefs and winning a Superbowl they need to find that consistent game wrecker. The majority of Superbowl winning teams have one. They need someone to make that one critical play. 

30 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

You wonder how much the Benford injury played into that.

 

They were already playing that way before the Benford injury. Obviously Benford to Elam is, as Tony Romo said, one of the biggest downgrades you can have. So might he have made a play on the countless downs that Elam was picked on? Sure. But in terms of their plan I'm not sure it affected it much. 

[Niagara Dude]

7 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

That I agree with.  I would Iove to see the Bills hire a proven defensive coordinator like Jim Schartz.  I also agree our special teams needs a new coach as well.

 

McDermott won't do it himself because he surrounds himself with yes men, how many times this season have teams just drove down the field making it look like a 7 on 7 drill? The fact is McDermott as a defensive coordinator was fired by Andy Reid in Philly. Just once I would like to see a defensive plan that surprises the other team.  

[billsfan714]

Andy Reid HC better than Sean McDermott

Andy Reid (calls the plays) better than Joe Brady OC

Spagnola DC better than Babich/Sean

Brett Veach better than Beane

 

I really don't think you can make a case that the above isn't true.

Edited yesterday at 12:00 PM by billsfan714

[longtimebillsfan]

44 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Andy Reid HC better than Sean McDermott

Andy Reid (calls the plays) better than Joe Brady OC

Spagnola DC better than Babich/Sean

Brett Veach better than Beane

 

I really don't think you can make a case that the above isn't true.

You could say that for just about any other team compared to KC.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

You could say that for just about any other team compared to KC.

 

Andy Reid is better than every Head Coach maybe bar John Harbaugh and he can't beat him in the playoffs either!

[uticaclub]

4 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

They forced 2 punts man. Like it was terrible 

 

There was multiple drives where they didn't even need to convert a 3rd down 

Forcing 2 punts is actually a MAJOR win for this defense in the playoffs not against a 7 seed, rookie QB or dead Phil Rivers

[Niagara Dude]

8 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

That I agree with.  I would Iove to see the Bills hire a proven defensive coordinator like Jim Schartz.  I also agree our special teams needs a new coach as well.

 

This is a problem with McDermott,  he is a control freak who surrounds himself with yes men.  Only big name coordinator that he hired was Dabol and they never got along great because Dabol wanted to pass more than run.  I don't include Frazier because he just did what Mcdermott asked him to,  another yes man

 

It's got to the point where Pegula should tell him that things are not working out in the playoffs on the defensive side of the ball and that's not fair to Allen. He could easily hire a big name defensive coordinator and demote current coordinator.

 

3 playoff games in a row the other team just went down the field and scored a TD like it was a 7 on 7 drills,  not acceptable and in other cities/teams guys get fired. When has he ever fired a defensive coordinator,  even Frazier they made up some story about him retiring and then he goes and gets another job a year later

 

I personally believe McDermott really never fires any defensive coordinators because they are yes men and just doing what he asks them to do,  essentially he is calling the plays and coming up with the schemes