Brady and McD on same page?

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

What I don’t understand is the Bills hesitancy to do the Allen tush push on 3rd and 2’s.  When they run that play they typically get 1-3 yards, I don’t care if it’s ugly boring football it’s effective and they should absolutely be running that play every time when they are on the opponents side of the field.   That’s a couple times now that I believe that play should have been run.   I hope they rethink that

I think the Ravens were ready for the Tush Push and hence the Bills decided to change the play.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I think the Ravens were ready for the Tush Push and hence the Bills decided to change the play.

 

Most teams usually are.

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

What I don’t understand is the Bills hesitancy to do the Allen tush push on 3rd and 2’s.  When they run that play they typically get 1-3 yards, I don’t care if it’s ugly boring football it’s effective and they should absolutely be running that play every time when they are on the opponents side of the field.   That’s a couple times now that I believe that play should have been run.   I hope they rethink that

The footing was bad. We've seen Josh slip before.

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

What I don’t understand is the Bills hesitancy to do the Allen tush push on 3rd and 2’s.  When they run that play they typically get 1-3 yards, I don’t care if it’s ugly boring football it’s effective and they should absolutely be running that play every time when they are on the opponents side of the field.   That’s a couple times now that I believe that play should have been run.   I hope they rethink that

 

I believe it is a couple of reasons.  The Allen QB sneak works best when they rush up and catch the opponent in a lighter box and have gaps for Allen to hit.  It also works best with less than 1 yard to go.

 

Down at the goal line because of the time to get the ball spotted - there was time for the defense to bring in extra linemen and with little area to defend - they can bring in a lot of extra beef making it not only harder, but more dangerous for Allen.  Think of the stop by Tennessee at the goal line.

 

Defending the end zone and defending 1 yard at midfield is very different.   I think the Bills recognize that and respect the difference.

 

Earlier in the year at the goal line you saw a play like that and Josh went basically outside the tackle to get a gap.

 

If after the 2nd down run they could have rushed up and tried it - they have more success, but the ball was spotted outside the 2 causing a delay - which changed everything up and stopped momentum.

Edited Saturday at 04:31 PM by Rochesterfan

[Magox]

26 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I think the Ravens were ready for the Tush Push and hence the Bills decided to change the play.

No one has been able to stop it, I think the Dolphins in one of the games stopped a 3rd and 1 and the Bills proceeded to get it on the 4th and half a yard.

 

That tush push TD went in easily and could have gone for 3 yards.

21 minutes ago, MJS said:

The footing was bad. We've seen Josh slip before.

The Bills scored easily on the TD from the 1 yard line.  Not buying that at all

9 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I believe it is a couple of reasons.  The Allen QB sneak works best when they rush up and catch the opponent in a lighter box and have gaps for Allen to hit.  It also works best with less than 1 yard to go.

 

Down at the goal line because of the time to get the ball spotted - there was time for the defense to bring in extra linemen and with little area to defend - they can bring in a lot of extra beef making it not only harder, but more dangerous for Allen.  Think of the stop by Tennessee at the goal line.

 

Defending the end zone and defending 1 yard at midfield is very different.   I think the Bills recognize that and respect the difference.

 

Earlier in the year at the goal line you saw a play like that and Josh went basically outside the tackle to get a gap.

 

If after the 2nd down run they could have rushed up and tried it - they have more success, but the ball was spotted outside the 2 causing a delay - which changed everything up and stopped momentum.

Until a team proves they can stop it, you continue to go for it.  It is the only play in football where everyone knows it’s coming and knowing that despite that fact and that the Bills have the highest success rate that goes well into the 90% range (along with Philly), you run it until it is stopped 

[Rochesterfan]

5 minutes ago, Magox said:

No one has been able to stop it, I think the Dolphins in one of the games stopped a 3rd and 1 and the Bills proceeded to get it on the 4th and half a yard.

 

That tush push TD went in easily and could have gone for 3 yards.

The Bills scored easily on the TD from the 1 yard line.  Not buying that at all

Until a team proves they can stop it, you continue to go for it.  It is the only play in football where everyone knows it’s coming and knowing that despite that fact and that the Bills have the highest success rate that goes well into the 90% range (along with Philly), you run it until it is stopped 

 

Disagree - it works because the Bills get them in a front where Josh has a gap.  That is why the move him over - he doesn’t just go forward like Philly did.

 

The Bills recognize that at some times a team doesn’t have to defend most of the field - they can instead fill gaps - in those cases you do something else.  The bills tried to let them rush to create a gap - it worked, but an extra blitz filled that opening and he got Josh down.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

What I find interesting is that everyone assuming that the Ravens will be able to drive 99 yards (In Highmark Stadium) with the game on the line.  

It’s pretty rare anyone is stopping the ravens in full 4 down territory to be fair…nobody really stops them with only 3 downs to worry about.  Protecting yourself from losing the game on the final ravens drive was the right call when the sneak gets into the long 1 range imo 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

It’s pretty rare anyone is stopping the ravens in full 4 down territory to be fair…nobody really stops them with only 3 downs to worry about.  Protecting yourself from losing the game on the final ravens drive was the right call when the sneak gets into the long 1 range imo 

Not when are starting at 1 yard line and have to march 99 yards down field.  The pressure at 1 yard is very different when it is at the 12 yard line,....especially with the game on the line.    

[Since1981]

1,2,3 yards to go/goal

1 is a now a free gimme for THIS bills O/OL

2 is almost a gimme but game situational

3 is possible but risk 

 

**it is strange to watch other teams struggle with 1 or 2 yards. We are spoiled**

 

Edited Saturday at 06:00 PM by Since1981

[T master]

5 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

Thought it was curious when Brady explained his 3rd down run call on last drive - call was Josh run and even if he just gets it to the one yard line Brady knows they are going for it on 4th down. Really? I’m not certain McD would make that decision. The chance to take an 8 point lead in that situation certainly makes going for it on 4th down a tough decision; certainly not a no brainer. Had the Bills gone for it on 4th & 1 there, and were stopped, Ravens very likely win that game.

 

In situations like that the OC should know and be certain as to what the head coach intends to do on 4th down. That should be communicated before the call. As Brady himself explained, “knowing” that McD would go for it on 4th & 1 there affected Brady’s play call. It’s my hope that it wasn’t just an assumption on Brady’s part. It certainly shouldn’t be. Quite frankly, in that specific situation, I would have kicked the field goal if it was 4th down at one yard line. I suspect that McD would have too. But I really suspect that at the time that 3rd down call was made, McD himself hadn’t made a decision as to what he would do on 4th and 1. 

 

He did exactly what your talking about so the point is ??? Even if Brady did decide to go for it on 4th and 1 McD has the final say and did make the final call .

[thenorthremembers]

Guess you didn't listen to McDermotts post games where he literally said they were going for it if they got it within 1 or 2 yards.

 

We have a whole bunch of drama kings here just looking for issues with the head coach.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

6 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

Thought it was curious when Brady explained his 3rd down run call on last drive - call was Josh run and even if he just gets it to the one yard line Brady knows they are going for it on 4th down. Really? I’m not certain McD would make that decision. The chance to take an 8 point lead in that situation certainly makes going for it on 4th down a tough decision; certainly not a no brainer. Had the Bills gone for it on 4th & 1 there, and were stopped, Ravens very likely win that game.

 

In situations like that the OC should know and be certain as to what the head coach intends to do on 4th down. That should be communicated before the call. As Brady himself explained, “knowing” that McD would go for it on 4th & 1 there affected Brady’s play call. It’s my hope that it wasn’t just an assumption on Brady’s part. It certainly shouldn’t be. Quite frankly, in that specific situation, I would have kicked the field goal if it was 4th down at one yard line. I suspect that McD would have too. But I really suspect that at the time that 3rd down call was made, McD himself hadn’t made a decision as to what he would do on 4th and 1. 

 

They definitely were going for on 4th and one and McDermott said so.

 

The real mistake was NOT USING THE SNOWPLOW on third down and then again on 4th down if need be. Calling that shutgun play was beyond stupid and McDermott should have overruled it immediately when the call came in. That play darn near cost us the game, if Andrews doesnt bail us out there's a good chance we loose that game. No guarantee we move down the field and score or make a FG.

 

 

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think the Ravens were ready for the Tush Push and hence the Bills decided to change the play.

 

they always know its coming by the formation, we should have done it anyway.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

I want to know why they didn't do the shnowplow on 3rd down.  With someone like Alec Anderson behind him helping push.

 

And once they didn't get it, kicking the FG was a no-brainer.  They need to go 88 yards to get a TD and 2 PC and stop the Bills from getting into position to get a FG on the ensuing drive.

 

if we dont make it on third down we go for it on 4th, no way they stop it twice, especially when the ball would have been on the goal line if they didn't make it. Also it was a bad spot by the refs as usual as it should have been placed at the one. That is one of the most annoying things about the refs , besides horrible calls, is consistently placing the ball short of where the payer actually made it to.

 

 

3 hours ago, MJS said:

The footing was bad. We've seen Josh slip before.

 

we made other tush pushes in the game.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I believe it is a couple of reasons.  The Allen QB sneak works best when they rush up and catch the opponent in a lighter box and have gaps for Allen to hit.  It also works best with less than 1 yard to go.

 

Down at the goal line because of the time to get the ball spotted - there was time for the defense to bring in extra linemen and with little area to defend - they can bring in a lot of extra beef making it not only harder, but more dangerous for Allen.  Think of the stop by Tennessee at the goal line.

 

Defending the end zone and defending 1 yard at midfield is very different.   I think the Bills recognize that and respect the difference.

 

Earlier in the year at the goal line you saw a play like that and Josh went basically outside the tackle to get a gap.

 

If after the 2nd down run they could have rushed up and tried it - they have more success, but the ball was spotted outside the 2 causing a delay - which changed everything up and stopped momentum.

 

the defense knows we are going to run and it shows by how tight they stack the box but we make it 99% of the time , do it on 3rd down and 4th down if need be.

 

 

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, WIDE LEFT said:

Thought it was curious when Brady explained his 3rd down run call on last drive - call was Josh run and even if he just gets it to the one yard line Brady knows they are going for it on 4th down. Really? I’m not certain McD would make that decision. The chance to take an 8 point lead in that situation certainly makes going for it on 4th down a tough decision; certainly not a no brainer. Had the Bills gone for it on 4th & 1 there, and were stopped, Ravens very likely win that game.

 

In situations like that the OC should know and be certain as to what the head coach intends to do on 4th down. That should be communicated before the call. As Brady himself explained, “knowing” that McD would go for it on 4th & 1 there affected Brady’s play call. It’s my hope that it wasn’t just an assumption on Brady’s part. It certainly shouldn’t be. Quite frankly, in that specific situation, I would have kicked the field goal if it was 4th down at one yard line. I suspect that McD would have too. But I really suspect that at the time that 3rd down call was made, McD himself hadn’t made a decision as to what he would do on 4th and 1. 

 

McD would have radioed to him that he would go for it in that situation. These guys are in communication. They aren't doing anything blind.

[WIDE LEFT]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

What I find interesting is that everyone assuming that the Ravens will be able to drive 99 yards (In Highmark Stadium) with the game on the line.  

They drove 88 yards for their touchdown - would not have needed to go that far to kick a field goal for their touchdown win

[ProcessTruster]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

They drove 88 yards with the game on the line immediately after.

Yeah I don't see this defense shutting a top offense down when its do or die for that offense and they are playing 4 down football.   Just don't see it for almost any defense.   Need to score, score and score some more in today's NFL.   Get a couple turnovers and you can end up with more points.   Kind of how goes in today's NFL at the highest levels. 

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

the defense knows we are going to run and it shows by how tight they stack the box but we make it 99% of the time , do it on 3rd down and 4th down if need be.

 

 

 

Nope - several times they rush to the line to run the play - preventing the other team from bringing in extra DL.  Additionally, when the other team is not on the goal line - they still have to think about defending the entire field - so they keep LBs and safeties on the field giving the OL a huge advantage.

 

Down at the goal line after waiting to get the spot - Baltimore had already brought in extra DL.  It was a totally different situation than even earlier when they hustled at the goal line and caught Baltimore with a standard defense and scored.

 

This is the second time that this happened - the first was Detroit - and neither time where the defense could substitute and get fully ready at the goal line did the Bills run the play.  I think they recognized when it works and when they will have issues and they go to alternate plays.

 

 

[Saint Doug]

Going for the FG was a no brainer. McD may have thought about it twice, as he should, but it was the only correct call. 

[GoBills808]

18 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Going for the FG was a no brainer. McD may have thought about it twice, as he should, but it was the only correct call. 

definitely not a no brainer, it's close but FG is the right call