LabattBlue Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Among defensive lineman he was tied with 5 others at 30th in the league in solo tackles with 28. That is six more than Adams had and 7 less than Williams had in 2003 when he wasn't splitting time with Banaan/Edwards. 372027[/snapback] Here is a link to sortable stats for DL in 2004... http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/DL...ES/2004/regular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Here is a link to sortable stats for DL in 2004... http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/DL...ES/2004/regular 372054[/snapback] and here's Yahoo!'s list sorted by DE which places Schobel's 10th in league at DE, which is far better than average as there are 64 starting DEs in the league. Even if we use your list, where he places 30th, he's again better than average when consider there's approximately 112 (3.5x32) starting DL in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 I just don't think it makes him all pro caliber. It why I see him as better than average at his position if only slightly so.I agree with those sentiments exactly. 370239[/snapback] 372012[/snapback] Thanks for resdponding to the thread and issues in some detail. i think folks can read this thread (and actually learn a lot of interesting factoids) and assess it based on the content which tiy have contributed a lot to. However I think that a reader need only look at the title of this thread and your quote above to get the bottomline on all of our blather. This thread challenged the notion ranted in other threads that Aaron Schobel was a mediocre player. I disagree with this assessment completely. I never said I consider him an All-Pro and never said that I thought he deserved Pro Bowl status. All I claim is that whether one applies the semantics to the word "medicore" that most of us do that a mediocre player is a bad player and worse than average or even if one take the more charitable Old English definition that medicre means medium or a middle of the pack ranking of Schobel among the 64 DE starters in this league, Schobel is better than worse than average or merely average as a player. I a happy that your post summarized Schobel as being a better than average player if by your judgment he is only slightly better than average. I simply say that better than average whether you are in the top third (but not All-Pro) or simply being in the upper part of the middle teir because he is slightly better than average makes the claim of some that he is a mediocre player simply incorrect. The good news for the Bills is that the cap hit for the #10 DE according to NFL.com is $3.9 million. Schobel comes in at well below this with a 2005 cap hit at $2.6 million according to the great compilation by Clumpy. Almost all statistical measures point to him being below the top 8 witj Pro Bowl nods but well above the bad player and as you say above average even if only slightly so in your judgment. I'm not saying I'm not disappointed in his play as a Bills fan, just that like my fellow Bills fans I know I am irrational about player performance (Bruce Smith was one of the best there ever was at DE and I was horribly disappointed in him all the time). Disappointed in Schobel? Fine as I agree, because I was disappointed in every Bill last year and will be til we win it all. But to claim I am disappointed because he is mediocre rather than because of my own irrational standards as a fan is simply laughable in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 He's a good pass-rusher when we have a 31-10 lead on the Rams in the 4th Qtr. If we're tied with NE in the last 3 minutes, I have zero confidence in him getting anywhere near Tom Brady. He is the best DE on the team. If you made a list of the best DE for each of the 32 teams though - he's not going to be in the top 10. If that's not mediocre, then it's something between 'mediocre' and 'good'. 369515[/snapback] Thanx Bufforange---most realisitic description of Schobel I've heard. I would class him above mediocre and below good. In the situation you describe above--Brady could have a picnic back there before Schobel gets anywhere near. Our very good D coordinator designs the D to make up for/work around the fact that we create little to no pressure from our D line. When you have good DBs,excellent LBS and excellent run stuffers you can make up for this weakness. This is why I am a bit(not a lot) worried about losing Phat pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I think you are reffering to my posts in that thread althought that is a little hard to tell given your distortion of what I said. We apparently have a different understanding of "mediocre". I said that his play was meciocre but given his athletic ability, he was slightly better than average. As for the idea that there is no logic to that opinion, you seemed to have glossed over where I point out that he had only 8 sacks, 5 of which came against the fins, bengals and browns and that he finished 25th in the league in sacks. Look, I don't care if you agree or not but to characterize my opinion as baseless, lacking in any logic is just mean spirited. As for playing on the "second best defense in the league", enough already with that stat. We played a pretty laughable schedule and our vaunted defense had some serious let downs in crunch time. The Jacksonville game, the Jets on the road and the Steeler games are notable in that regard. Besides, I could turn that around easy enough. Playing on such a great defense he easily should have racked up more than 8 sacks, mostly against the lousiest teams on the schedule. Afterall, the other teams had to worry so much about Williams, Adams, Fletcher, Milloy and Spikes that they couldn't load up on Schobel. Look, maybe you are happy with a DE who is maybe better than Ryan Denney and lets you hold a roster spot open for an extra long snapper. Me, I want a little more from my blind side DE than that. Schobel is a little better than serviceable, that is about it. As for my main point in that thread, that you can't compare a player like him with a guy on Clements' level, it holds as well. 370060[/snapback] Yeah exactly......Saying our D was the 2nd best in the league is just silly. Our D is very good----top third of the league.We couldnt stop ANYONE of quality when it counted...and my God did we rack up some stats against Cleveland or what??LOL -And part of thereason why we could never stop anyone in crunch time was the fact that Schobel is only slightly better than a mediocre DE. He could pump up his stats by getting sacks in blowout situations etc. When it came to crunch time he was getting competely neutralized--time after time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 He never really seams to do much when it matters. He can go entire games without even any preasure it seems. Racks up stats against bad teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 He never really seams to do much when it matters. He can go entire games without even any preasure it seems. Racks up stats against bad teams. 374560[/snapback] May be this is the year he proves his doubters wrong.....Go schoebel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 He never really seams to do much when it matters. He can go entire games without even any preasure it seems. Racks up stats against bad teams. 374560[/snapback] Beat Ogden pretty good last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 He never really seams to do much when it matters. He can go entire games without even any preasure it seems. Racks up stats against bad teams. 374560[/snapback] In addition to the post just above citing the case where he flat out beat Ogden, one of the best LTs in the league that even better he is one of the statistical leaders on a team whose D was in the top 5 statistically in terms of D 2 years running including a #2 ranking last year. it would seem contradictory to not think this stat is relevant because you don;t like his results in another stat. The fact is that stats are an indicator and not conclusive in terms of measuring a player or a team (besides W/L). However, Schobel is a much improved player over his first couple of years where he took some bad tackle angles and he easily in my view deserved his huge but pretty moderate by NFL standards contract to deliver his significantly better than moderate play at DE. He is not a great player (yet we Bills fans hope) but does not command a great player cap hit and the D he was a significant part of last year was successful. The D needs to get better (witness the power outage against the Steelers) but with 10 of 11 starters back, the missing guy Phat Pat having Plans A, B. and C to replace him (Edwards, then Anderson, and use of the run-blitz scheme to cover up DT failings), and with last year acconplishments being done despite significant loss injury time to Vincent and Milloy the prospects are good for this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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