Fixing games, betting, etc.

[NORWOODS FOOT]

Foundational Assumption:

 

1) Within every group of people there is a minority subset that have insatiable greed and are willing to do nearly anything serve their own appetites. 
 

In regards to professional sports, you have (at least) 3 possibilities for influencing games:

 

1) League led

 

This is the easiest. 
 

A number of years ago, a New York Jets fan tried to sue the NFL to get back the cost of his season tickets because he said that when the patriots spied on the Jets signals that it made the game unfair and that the outcome wasn’t really being determined on the field. He said he paid to see the outcome determined on the field. The courts denied his request and said that the fans are not entitled to an outcome solely settled on the field. This is “sports ENTERTAINMENT” and this is a “PRESENTATION of the national football league.” Essentially the courts, via a ruling (which creates case law) gave the league legal permission to manipulate outcomes.

 

The NFL makes tons of money off of it, so-called superstars, especially quarterbacks. And there’s nothing that make quarterbacks cooler than winning the Super Bowl and becoming so-called legends. And if you’re already dealing with the leagues, best quarterback, they don’t need a lot of help to win games. All you have to do is extend a couple of their drives via penalty. Or gum up another teams drive with penalties lowering the probability that they’re going to get first down and be able to extend it.

 

How would you know if this is happening? If the leagues, most marketable player keeps getting their drives extended in the playoffs, and the other team gets their drives, slowed down by suspect calls, and it happens at a ratio that rules out randomness, then there’s probably something going on. 
 

And not many people would need to know. We have entire teams of people in the United States clandestinely going to other nations to do completely off the books operations. You never hear about these things. It wouldn’t be very difficult for five or 10 people in the NFL to be doing the very same thing and just simply not tell anyone. Beyond that everybody has to sign NDA and would be sued into oblivion. 
 

2) Organized crime
 

History is replete with examples, but let’s consider organized crime - I grew up in Youngstown Ohio, a place run by the mob. It is merely a group of people that decide to operate outside of the bounds of the law because they see an easier path to greater wealth. They go where the money is flowing in legit enterprises and attempt to “get in on the action.” They either demand with threats to let them into the game directly, or they demand that a cut be paid. They sweeten the deal by promising to make their insiders/co-conspirators wealthy. And if they have dirt on you, all the better: either work with us and get rich, or get outed and have your life destroyed. It’s not easy to find an insider in the right position (game officials), but if you can and swing them, it isn’t that complicated. An NBA ref was caught working with the mob a number of years ago. When the lead FBI agent on the case was asked if this was an isolated incident, he said absolutely not, and was then cut off by the interviewer.
 

I went to the same university as Dennis Hastert, the former speaker of the house. It turns out that he used to take boys to a townhouse in Chicago and do bad things to them there. Not only is that a moral outrage because you’re destroying someone’s life, but the implications of that are even greater. in a conversation with someone that works in national security they said it’s even worse because you don’t know who else is tapping that house. China could be listening in and using it for blackmail. Or anyone else for that matter. There were people around the world, watching people in positions of power to look for opportunities to blackmail them either do what the blackmail wants, and often made rich because of it, or they get exposed and have their life ruined, almost that the refs in the umpires of the NFL have had people try to hack into their computers to look for incriminating things whether they know it or not. There’s just too much money to be made by having one of those guys in your pocket .

 

3) Rogue individuals (players/coaches)

 

This one is pretty self-explanatory. Throughout history, we have plenty of examples of players trying to throw games because either they or someone that they know bet heavily on the game.

 

 

In Summation: 

 

Betting has always made it, tempting to influence the outcomes of sports games. Legalized gambling has made it even more tempting because the amounts of money flowing, and the ease of placing bets, is more than ever before.

 

And unfortunately, this happens all the time. Did any of you watch the Jake Paul / Mike Tyson “fight”? You could play bets on that before the opening bell. And I dare anyone to watch that and tell me that it tell me that it wasn’t scripted. Mike Tyson was completely washed up, and Jake Paul barely punched him. so if you bet on that fight, you were betting on which outcome those guys chose for that event.
 

Why should the NFL be any different? I wish that it was, but to me, there’s just too much evidence of nudging games, one way or another. All I hope for when I watch games is to see if as a little of that as possible if any. But now we’re in the playoffs and major money is flowing It’s extremely tempting for those who have the power, not the tilt the table their own direction. 
 

If I had to guess, I believe that the league does sometimes try to influence games for the most monetary gain. I believe that organized crime also tries to influence games when possible, though that may be more sporadic. And lastly, I have no doubt that in any given game there COULD be a player trying to shave points, especially in basketball.

 

BONUS: How bribes are paid

I’ll give you a little vignette so you can see how bribes are paid legally and easily in this world…

 

Imagine you’re a contractor and I’m a city commissioner and you’re trying to get a contract for some work you want to do for the city. You come and meet me in my office and after we’re done talking, I tell you, “ Yeah, I’d like to work with you. But before we kick things off, you need to make sure you have great legal representation. You’re gonna need somebody to look over your contract and help you cross the Ts and dot the I’s. I highly recommend that you go talk to Lawyer X. He’s the best in the business.”

 

So you show up to Lawyer X’s office and discuss the potential deal. And he lets you know that he’ll help you put it together but you’re gonna need to keep him on retainer by paying him $10,000 a month. But the contracts for $150,000 a month so what the hell? 
 

What you don’t know is that the lawyer is a business partner with the city commissioner. He’s going to “invest” that money in a joint venture they have together. And not only that, but the conversation that you just had with him is protected by attorney client privilege, so he never hast to tell a soul.

 

PS I could tell you a story about speaking to a high-level mobster years ago, and hearing about his connection to someone that eventually became president, but you probably wouldn’t believe me. But yeah, I’m a little cynical about people, money, and power.

 

The world is a messy place.

Edited 5 hours ago by NORWOODS FOOT

[BearNorth]

If you ever watched the movie "The Replacements", with Gene Hackman and Keanu Reaves, there was a story line about an English kicker, who was involved with gamblers.  I have always suspected that story line did not just come from the figment of some writer's imagination.

[NORWOODS FOOT]

15 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

If you ever watched the movie "The Replacements", with Gene Hackman and Keanu Reaves, there was a story line about an English kicker, who was involved with gamblers.  I have always suspected that story line did not just come from the figment of some writer's imagination.

No, but maybe I’ll check it out. This stuff isn’t fun to think about. I tune things out most of the time. I think this bothers me because I want the Bills to win a Super Bowl so badly! 
 

Youngstown was a mafia ridden shiz hole. The Debartolo (owners of the 49ers) lived there. The old man bought the team for his son Eddie who was basically a coke head. My uncle used to drink with him sometimes. A guy I worked with - who was also a cop - used to be paid to start the old man’s car each morning in case there was a bomb.
 

Our congressman, James Trafficant, whom I met a number of times and still have a letter from his wife when he was in prison, was a shady dude and got kicked out of congress for basically sticking his finger in everyone’s eyes in Washington. Then when he got out he was doing his own news thing on the internet and was found dead in his barn. Crushed by a tractor. 
 

I could tell more stories, but I’ve basically grown up with this stuff in my face for years.  It just pisses me off if these shenanigans keep my beloved Bills from a championship. I don’t want these #######s helping my team either. I just want to see a fair and real game. I want Josh to lead the Bills to glory fair and square. We shall see. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Augie]

Oh boy! I didn’t know what I was signing up for! Even the summation was an endeavor. [EDIT: And I did not finish]

 

I used to go by Tim Donaghy’s house (disgraced NBA ref) on a semi frequent basis. You never knew it was his house until the scandal. After that the kids toys in the driveway made me sad. 

 

It happens. Not on a league level, but do you think some college basketball kid might like to supplement his NIL? On one hand I think it’s odd how the NFL is in bed with gambling, but crushes a player for gambling. On the other hand, I completely understand. 

 

.

Edited 3 hours ago by Augie

[BearNorth]

13 minutes ago, NORWOODS FOOT said:

No, but maybe I’ll check it out. This stuff isn’t fun to think about. I tune things out most of the time. I think this bothers me because I want the Bills to win a Super Bowl so badly! 
 

Youngstown was a mafia ridden shiz hole. The Debartolo (owners of the 49ers) lived there. The old man bought the team for his son Eddie who was basically a coke head. My uncle used to drink with him sometimes. A guy I worked with - who was also a cop - used to be paid to start the old man’s car each morning in case there was a bomb.
 

Our congressman, James Trafficant, whom I met a number of times and still have a letter from his wife when he was in prison, was a shady dude and got kicked out of congress for basically sticking his finger in everyone’s eyes in Washington. Then when he got out he was doing his own news thing on the internet and was found dead in his barn. Crushed by a tractor. 
 

I could tell more stories, but I’ve basically grown up with this stuff in my face for years.  It just pisses me off if these shenanigans keep my beloved Bills from a championship. I don’t want these #######s helping my team either. I just want to see a fair and real game. I want Josh to lead the Bills to glory fair and square. We shall see. 
 

Go Bills!!!

I'm a Buffalo native, 76 yrs old.  My grandfather was the Fire Dept Chief for South Buffalo, all the industrial areas.  My dad was shot down in WW2 and never recovered fully and died when I was six, so my grandfather would often take me in his chiefs car on Saturday's to give my mom a break.  the stops included visits to tavern's in the morning, the back rooms of barber shops,etc.  Sometimes we would go to Fort Erie and I would get to ride on the guide ponies at the track.  Scene straight out of Damon Runyon.  I would love to see everything fair and square as well.