Van Noy - "I've never seen them (Bills) do this as conservative they played"

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Per the bolded- The ravens strength is their rush D. Number 1 in the nfl if I'm not mistaken .  So when you say the bills were exploiting the opponents weakness and us posters don't "understand that", respectfully your point doesn't make sense- Considering they were continuing trying to run against the ravens strength and got very little in the 2nd half.

The results in the 2nd half ? Only one 1st down in the 3rd quarter- 6 total points in the 2nd half- And barely over 100 yards in the 2nd half.

 

You think that's a good game plan? Or do you believe it was poor execution?

 

Cause objectively , the 2nd half offence wasn't good at all and it almost cost them the game 

Outside of the goal line sequence there were  more passes than runs in the second half by my count.it was actually less balanced than we’ve been in prior games in favor of the pass lol.  our rush offense vs their rush defense was strength on strength, their secondary held up really well in pass coverage all night long and they tackled their  a** off on the underneath stuff which let them stay in two high a lot.  Giving up on the run would’ve been a mistake imo and there were quite a few run plays where we could’ve executed a lot better in the second half

 

It’s seeming to get lost in the discourse also but we only had 4 drives in the second half (not counting the game sealer) and two of those were killed by a pretty ill fated TE screen audible and a drop/potential slip? for Kincaid. It was more self inflicted mistakes killing drives than playcalling imo whether the playcall was a run or pass.

 

also to comment on the number 1 rush defense talk, they were also number 2 in sacks (Denver was 1 who we met the week before)  and one of the best pass defenses in the league since shuffling some players around in the middle of the season.
 

 To me, the bills made improving the rushing offense  a point of emphasis to win this exact style of playoff game where dbs are getting away with holds both ways and there’s not much available to you in the passing game.  Trying to throw the ball all over the field in the second half easily could’ve gone worse with how the ravens were playing.

Edited 20 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[NC-billsfan!]

Van Noy is boring!

[Dan]

1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said:

He's not wrong. If the Bills were playing from behind I expect they would have turned it on. Josh threw it deep on that first drive. But that was followed by two Ravens turnovers with the run and short pass game productive and clicking up until halftime at which point clock management and avoiding the big turnover becomes a thing.

 

If Andrews catches that 2 point conversions I suspect the limits would have come off

A point to consider for folks, as well, is Brady is well known to stick with what’s working. I think they realize pretty quickly in the first quarter that the run game was working.   So why switch it to a passing attack?

 

If I had to guess I would say the plan all along was to run more heavily in the third quarter. If you look at the splits, Henry always runs for more yards in the second. So I think they wanted to keep the ball away from him and continue pounding it out.  Not really a bad strategy at all.  Until the ravens adjusted and shut it down.  But when we needed to in the fourth quarter they mixed it up and got some scores.

[GASabresIUFan]

Just some stats:

The Bills rushed for more yards than they passed for in 5 games this season.  The Bills were 3-2.

The Bills are 8-1 in games they throw for 250+.  
Passing attempts (RS) 520; Rushing 491

TDs (RS) Passing 30; Rushing 32.  

 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

Just banish me to solitary confinement for a month to think about it Warden Norton.  

Why don’t we just agree to ignore each other?

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

The Andrews fumble led to a FG, The Jackson fumble and Miller return led to a TD, so yes 10 pts off turnovers and we won by 2.  

 

That doesn’t even account for the lost possession and potential points (for the Ravens) from those possessions.

 

They were in field goal range (or knocking on the door of it) on 2 of the turnovers.

 

Possibly 16 points of swing from turnovers. 

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Outside of the goal line sequence there were  more passes than runs in the second half by my count.it was actually less balanced than we’ve been in prior games in favor of the pass lol.  

 

It was 15 passes to 14 runs in the second half.  

Many of the passes came after we ran into a brick role over and over and created 2nd/3rd and long.

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

That doesn’t even account for the lost possession and potential points (for the Ravens) from those possessions.

 

They were in field goal range (or knocking on the door of it) on 2 of the turnovers.

 

Possibly 16 points of swing from turnovers. 

 

It was 15 passes to 14 runs in the second half.  

Many of the passes came after we ran into a brick role over and over and created 2nd/3rd and long.

 

Well yea 15-14 with us running 5 times in a row during the goal line sequence and once to close out the game.  Every other series of downs was virtually 2 passes and a run 

 

idk what you think you’re gonna do in the passing game if you can’t ‘overcome’ a 1-2 yard run with two passing plays lol that’s a pretty standard nfl situation.

the two failed drives leading to quick punts were:

#1) 1 yard run then back to back incompletions 

 

#2) pass-pass-pass-run-pass-pass (weird screen audible)

 

Long field goal drive was a little more even but we broke multiple good runs.  When we got bogged down it was back to back incompletions on 2nd and 8 

there were virtually as many stuffed runs as 5+ yard runs in the second half, and quite a few of the 1-2 yard gain type runs  had some execution problems much like the pass to Kincaid and strange te screen audible had execution problems.  Not sure if the ravens baited josh into that one but it looked like Knox couldve cut it outside and didn’t 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Einstein]

35 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

 

idk what you think you’re gonna do in the passing game if you can’t ‘overcome’ a 1-2 yard run with two passing plays lol that’s a pretty standard nfl situation.

 

 

there is a reason why every coach emphasizes that you cannot get behind the sticks. It’s not because they like to hear themselves talk. It’s because it does make getting first downs and sustaining drives incredibly difficult. 

 

every single additional yard you have to gain on second or third down, decreases your chances of obtaining that first down. 

 

That’s kind of why penalties are so hard to overcome

[Casey D]

6 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

So you are saying you think Joe Brady and Josh Allen were satisfied with 6 points and around 110 yards in the 2nd half?

If they scored a TD and scored 31 points, yes.

[Never NEVER Give-up]

18 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

The conservative offence worries me a bit. It kind of reminds me of the first 6 or so games of the season.

The Bills STILL scored 27 last Sunday - just 4 pts off their average for the year.  Several times this year I felt the way you do and poof, we score more than 30 by the time the game is over.  I believe the Bills have a plan and they're working it. Only 3 losses and the Patriots giveaway (so they don't get the #1 overall Draft pick) this year . . . . the plan seems to be working.  Remember, Clark Kent can don the cape anytime he wants!

[Comebackkid]

one thing that bothers me is 2-3 qtrs of running the ball...trying to force our will...but then we dont capitalize on 

that with play action to go down the field later.   we toss a lateral screen one yard to someone with no blockers.

 

we didnt take advantage of anything down the field which if anything just makes it harder to run the longer 

the game goes on.   

 

pittsburg came out and tried to do the same thing we did and it cost them the game.   Russ was having some luck passing when they set 

their mind to it but its like they were determined to show they could run the ball.

 

i would think we have a more agressive game plan for kc...we usually move the ball fairly well on them but 

I could see us come out and try the same thing and Kc know thats what were doing and by the time they decide 

we need to score points its too late.

 

 

[Mikey152]

4 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Outside of the goal line sequence there were  more passes than runs in the second half by my count.it was actually less balanced than we’ve been in prior games in favor of the pass lol.  our rush offense vs their rush defense was strength on strength, their secondary held up really well in pass coverage all night long and they tackled their  a** off on the underneath stuff which let them stay in two high a lot.  Giving up on the run would’ve been a mistake imo and there were quite a few run plays where we could’ve executed a lot better in the second half

 

It’s seeming to get lost in the discourse also but we only had 4 drives in the second half (not counting the game sealer) and two of those were killed by a pretty ill fated TE screen audible and a drop/potential slip? for Kincaid. It was more self inflicted mistakes killing drives than playcalling imo whether the playcall was a run or pass.

 

also to comment on the number 1 rush defense talk, they were also number 2 in sacks (Denver was 1 who we met the week before)  and one of the best pass defenses in the league since shuffling some players around in the middle of the season.
 

 To me, the bills made improving the rushing offense  a point of emphasis to win this exact style of playoff game where dbs are getting away with holds both ways and there’s not much available to you in the passing game.  Trying to throw the ball all over the field in the second half easily could’ve gone worse with how the ravens were playing.

Honestly, they came out of the gate swinging...looked like they just lost a bit of steam at the half. Hard to keep that kind of energy the whole game, especially against an opponent who wasn't backing down from a fight.

 

Luckily they won enough rounds early in the fight to hold on and still win it.

Edited 15 hours ago by Mikey152

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

there is a reason why every coach emphasizes that you cannot get behind the sticks. It’s not because they like to hear themselves talk. It’s because it does make getting first downs and sustaining drives incredibly difficult. 

 

every single additional yard you have to gain on second or third down, decreases your chances of obtaining that first down. 

 

That’s kind of why penalties are so hard to overcome

Oh 100% agree there no question…but it wasn’t like we were often getting stopped in the backfield for a sizeable loss.  I didn’t specifically check for this but the only tfl I can remember in the second half was a 1 yard loss on first down after a nice run and we ended up converting the second and 11 ironically lol one of the big strengths of the bills running game is it very very rarely loses yards. 

 

my main point was we werent really behind the sticks that handful of times we stalled out and we couldn’t do anything in the passing game really. That doesn’t really bode well for the argument that we could’ve thrown the ball all over them if we wanted to imo.  I can see why we didn’t want to 100% give up on the run.  Some got stuffed but some hit for 7-8-10 yards stuff like that.  Was pretty similar to the passing game in that regard 

Edited 15 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 hours ago, NC-billsfan! said:

Van Noy is boring!

Yeah which is very Van AnNoy-ing

[Dan]

20 minutes ago, Comebackkid said:

one thing that bothers me is 2-3 qtrs of running the ball...trying to force our will...but then we dont capitalize on 

that with play action to go down the field later.   we toss a lateral screen one yard to someone with no blockers.

 

we didnt take advantage of anything down the field which if anything just makes it harder to run the longer 

the game goes on.   

 

pittsburg came out and tried to do the same thing we did and it cost them the game.   Russ was having some luck passing when they set 

their mind to it but its like they were determined to show they could run the ball.

 

i would think we have a more agressive game plan for kc...we usually move the ball fairly well on them but 

I could see us come out and try the same thing and Kc know thats what were doing and by the time they decide 

we need to score points its too late.

 

 

I think the weather and the fact we had the lead factored into the 2nd half play calling.    
 

And then when we got down to the 2yd line… the thinking by McD was go conservative to ensure the FG.  That gives us an 8pt lead and ensures, at the worst, overtime.   I would bet that they would have been more creative down there if it was a 1 or 2pt game.  

[DCofNC]

19 hours ago, gomper said:

Exactly.  It worked against Baltimore but they'll have to be more aggressive against KC because KC is KC.

Will they? Baltimore is arguably the better team.

[Da webster guy]

19 hours ago, zow2 said:

When’s the last time the Chiefs were the ones to make game killing mistakes that cost them a playoff game? hasn’t been lately as they’ve won a record 8 straight (without missing the playoffs).  They are the masters of limiting mistakes and doing anything they need to do, to win, even by a point.  and they make all their FGs too which goes under the radar.

Allowing Gabe Davis 4TD’s comes to mind.  That should have been plenty.

 

We know KC is scoring 30, and so are we.   It will come down to the last drive(s).  McD and Josh have both learned a lot and hopefully Brady has too along the way.

 

Bass kicking well, Pacheco looks slower since broken leg, Chris Jones less snap counts lately, our O line better than theirs (or anyones).   McDuffie will likely be on Shakir all game, he travels w #1’s, look for our TE’s and RB’s to have heavier loads, Coleman and Cooper just not enough chemistry yet for Josh to rely on as 1st read options.   

its our year.   

 

 

 

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

To me, it felt like we won that game the same way that the Patriots won so many. Conservative, mistake free, and patient. we just let the other team beat itself. It’s good to be able to win a game that way, but we can’t play that way against Kansas City. They aren’t going to beat themselves.

So true...We have lost so many games to the Patriots this way...where we would foolishly think that we were just 1 or 2 plays from winning the game...yet the game had been won by them without a fuss..they knew what they were doing and didn't care how they won...

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Never NEVER Give-up said:

The Bills STILL scored 27 last Sunday - just 4 pts off their average for the year.  Several times this year I felt the way you do and poof, we score more than 30 by the time the game is over.  I believe the Bills have a plan and they're working it. Only 3 losses and the Patriots giveaway (so they don't get the #1 overall Draft pick) this year . . . . the plan seems to be working.  Remember, Clark Kent can don the cape anytime he wants!

You got to look more than just points though- Getting 3 turnovers of course is going to impact the points, especially when all 3 turnovers gave you short fields.

 

Here are a couple of metrics to look at:

 

273 yards- Not good

4.6 yards per play- Not good

 

They got 27 points- 7 was set up from the von miller fumble recovery

 

Another 3 set up by the Bernard fumble recovery

3 hours ago, Casey D said:

If they scored a TD and scored 31 points, yes.

They didn't score a TD though- And the 27 total points were inflated because they had 3 turnovers that set them up with short fields

[3rdand12]

20 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

They made a conscious decision to try to limit their own mistakes and try to force the Ravens to make mistakes.  It worked.  Not the approach I would take against the Chiefs.

You're intimidated by them Coach.

Bills play their game as they did with Ravens , in the first half ..

 But I expect another page or two of the playbook to be opened for sunday. Nothing fancy . Maybe we do have a speed guy on the team. Or two. Who can catch.

Kincaid has been laying low , Cooper too.

 Hollins can run deep

 Cook can surprise with that catch and run burst.

 

hard to outsmart Reid and spags. But It Can Be Done

18 hours ago, MJS said:

 

I don't believe this for a second. Allen and the Bills need to be smart, take what the defense gives them, and not turn over the football. They've been doing exactly what they need to, and they should continue that.

Yep, add salt as needed