Patriots expected to hire former assistant Josh McDaniels as next offensive coordinator

[JohnNord]

46 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Since when is there a statute of limitation on a coaches resume? Especially with one as young as Josh Mcdaniels? But as you mention 08 Matt Cassell, I give you '21 Mac Jones rookie season.  

There isn’t a statute of limitations, but considering that his most significant achievements occurred nearly two decades ago, it’s somewhat absurd to rely on that as evidence.
 

Many coaches experienced a few successful years in the past, but the game has undergone significant changes since then.

 

Regarding Mac Jones in 2021, as I explained in another post, it was widely believed that Belichick was the mastermind behind that physical offense, following the abysmal offense built for Cam Newton in 2020 - which by the way nowhere close to “Top 10.” Therefore, there’s some ambiguity regarding McDaniels’ role in that offense.  

[Ghost_002!]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

There isn’t a statute of limitations, but considering that his most significant achievements occurred nearly two decades ago, it’s somewhat absurd to rely on that as evidence.
 

Many coaches experienced a few successful years in the past, but the game has undergone significant changes since then.

 

Regarding Mac Jones in 2021, as I explained in another post, it was widely believed that Belichick was the mastermind behind that physical offense, following the abysmal offense built for Cam Newton in 2020 - which by the way nowhere close to “Top 10.” Therefore, there’s some ambiguity regarding McDaniels’ role in that offense.  

 

 

Retreads are everywhere in the NFL, on top of the fact he is not that old, and he has dealt with young QBs his whole career. 2021 not too far long ago, and Belichick has never been a "mastermind" to any offense where he is the head coach. Similar to Sean McDermott. he is the head coach but is no mastermind to how the Bills play their offense. Of course they have input, but they are not the "masterminds" hence why they have coordinators for that. 

 

and I have repeatedly corrected myself on the Cam Newton top offense thing. Way before you originally posted about it. This will now be my 3rd or 4th time mentioning that. 

 

 

And in case you are not keeping count. 

 

He's had 2 top 10 offenses under 2 different QBs not named brady.

Got Mac Jones to a pro bowl selection and playoff birth

top 10 offense Matt Cassell who went on to sign a big contract with chiefs-which he was selected to a pro bowl and won a playoff game. Mind you Cassell was a 7th round pick.

coached up Jimmy G, who also went on to sign a big contract with the 49ers and played in a SB and if it wasn't for all the injuries probably might still be the QB in San Fran.  

 

He is the definition of a solid OC in the NFL who can handle today's QB,

Edited 5 hours ago by Ghost_002!

[GunnerBill]

I think Josh can coach, my issue with this is less that and more that I'm not sure the EP is the offense I want to put Drake Maye in. I'd have gone for more of a west coast / spread variant guy which is what AVP was running this past year. That scheme seemed to cater to him. I am not sure I want a ton of choice routes for Maye, I want a lot of "I know where my WR will be, hit my backfoot and get the ball there."  I'd have taken a look at someone like Bill Lazor who is from that tree. 

[Ghost_002!]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think Josh can coach, my issue with this is less that and more that I'm not sure the EP is the offense I want to put Drake Maye in. I'd have gone for more of a west coast / spread variant guy which is what AVP was running this past year. That scheme seemed to cater to him. I am not sure I want a ton of choice routes for Maye, I want a lot of "I know where my WR will be, hit my backfoot and get the ball there."  I'd have taken a look at someone like Bill Lazor who is from that tree. 

 

 

 

Maye has been very promising under the patriots horrible coaching staff and a horrible Oline this year. He has shown he can do things a lot of QBs can't do. Make big plays with his feet and still throw an accurate deep ball on the run, and who was his OC this past season? Alex Van Pelt. Who has him on their list of OCs?  I don't know if McDaniels and Maye will produce any titles, but they should end up being fine together. The patriots could have done a lot worse than pairing Maye up with Josh McDaniels. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Ghost_002!

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Says who? He is considered around the NFL as good coordinator. What ...because a few fans say different? He has worked with other QBs other than Brady and had a top 10 offense with those QBs (already named the QBs)

 

I mean he had a top 10 offense with Mac Jones. That says a lot. Keep bring up Sam Bradford, I must have missed Bradford's incredible QB rating and seasons after McDaniels left.  He, McDaniels has adjusted the Patriots offense multiple times to adhere to the talent the Pats had through the years.

 

He changed the offense to go vertical w Moss, he developed an offense for include 2 TEs after Moss, and he put an offense together with a running QB in Cam Newton. He's good enough and qualified enough....head coach, no. OC yes. 

 

Buddy, you keep waving 1 year of Mac Jones around as evidence that Josh McDaniel is a good coordinator without Tom Brady and the offense and offensive talent that was put together around him.  And Belichick was still there

 

But ignoring the (-) argument I mentioned: Sam Bradford

If you want to continue to talk to yourself "Josh McDaniel good!  Everyone thinks so!  Hurk Durk!", proceed, but people gonna stop engaging with you.

 

If you want to have a discussion, you need to actually acknowledge and respond to people's posts, not just the points you cherry pick.

[Ghost_002!]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Buddy, you keep waving 1 year of Mac Jones around as evidence that Josh McDaniel is a good coordinator without Tom Brady and the offense and offensive talent that was put together around him.  And Belichick was still there

 

But ignoring the (-) argument I mentioned: Sam Bradford

If you want to continue to talk to yourself "Josh McDaniel good!  Everyone thinks so!  Hurk Durk!", proceed, but people gonna stop engaging with you.

 

If you want to have a discussion, you need to actually acknowledge and respond to people's posts, not just the points you cherry pick.

 

 

You gave me Sam Bradford and I have given you 3 other QBs he has success with? 3 is more than 1.  Your math and mathing to me? I do not have to convince you of anything. You are in a minority.  Enough data shows that. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Ghost_002!

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

Maye has been very promising under the patriots horrible coaching staff this season. With a horrible Oline, he has showed he can do things a lot of QBs can't do. Make big plays with his feet and still throw an accurate deep ball on the run, and who was his OC this past season? Alex Van Pelt, someone who was never been an OC anywhere else but NE. Someone who no other NFL team ever let him be an OC anywhere. I don't know if McDaniels and Maye will produce any titles, but they should end up being fine together. The patriots could have done a lot worse than pairing Maye up with Josh McDaniels. 

 

AVP has been an OC in two places - an interim here in Buffalo back in '09 and then for four seasons in Cleveland before New England. 

 

But you completely missed the point of my post. The point of my post was that McDaniels runs the EP and I'm not sold on the EP as a fit for what Drake Maye does best. I actually think AVP's offense was the right sort of scheme. Not saying he is a great playcaller, but schematically I think what that west coast, spread variant asks of a Quarterback is a pretty good fit for what Maye does well. I'd have tried to go for another coach from that sort of tree: Bill Lazor was the name I threw out there as someone who has run it previously. Or Frank Reich if he would be interested in being an OC again. Josh is fine as a hire. I think he is a decent coach. But it means changing systems and while there is some cross over between the EP and the West Coast spread variant there are some differences too and mentally I think it is a bit more taxing on the QB. 

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

Maye has been very promising under the patriots horrible coaching staff and a horrible Oline this year. He has shown he can do things a lot of QBs can't do. Make big plays with his feet and still throw an accurate deep ball on the run, and who was his OC this past season? Alex Van Pelt, someone who was never been an OC anywhere else but NE. Someone who no other NFL team ever let him be an OC. I don't know if McDaniels and Maye will produce any titles, but they should end up being fine together. The patriots could have done a lot worse than pairing Maye up with Josh McDaniels. 

 

Facts:
Alex Van Pelt was OC in Cleveland for 4 years, from 2020-2023.  During that time, the Browns had 11 win records and went to the playoffs twice.

Van Pelt also had a stint as OC of the Bills in 2009.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/VanPAl0.htm

 

This and the Pats offense is all stuff you could verify on a site like pro-football-reference in like 10 seconds or less.

Sure, the Patriots could have done worse than hire Josh McDaniels as OC but "could have done worse" is a very low bar

[Ghost_002!]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

AVP has been an OC in two places - an interim here in Buffalo back in '09 and then for four seasons in Cleveland before New England. 

 

But you completely missed the point of my post. The point of my post was that McDaniels runs the EP and I'm not sold on the EP as a fit for what Drake Maye does best. I actually think AVP's offense was the right sort of scheme. Not saying he is a great playcaller, but schematically I think what that west coast, spread variant asks of a Quarterback is a pretty good fit for what Maye does well. I'd have tried to go for another coach from that sort of tree: Bill Lazor was the name I threw out there as someone who has run it previously. Or Frank Reich if he would be interested in being an OC again. Josh is fine as a hire. I think he is a decent coach. But it means changing systems and while there is some cross over between the EP and the West Coast spread variant there are some differences too and mentally I think it is a bit more taxing on the QB. 

 

 

No I got what you were saying. You have a valid point that a lot of NEP fans echo, are echoing. I was trying to say I think Maye is good enough he will be able to adjust. I do not think Alex Van Pelt was a good OC but Maye did ok in that system. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

No I got what you were saying. You have a valid point that a lot of NEP fans echo, are echoing. I was trying to say I think Maye is good enough he will be able to adjust. I do not think Alex Van Pelt was a good OC but Maye did ok in that system. 

 

Fair enough, then we were talking at somewhat cross purposes. 

[Ghost_002!]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Facts:
Alex Van Pelt was OC in Cleveland for 4 years, from 2020-2023.  During that time, the Browns had 11 win records and went to the playoffs twice.

Van Pelt also had a stint as OC of the Bills in 2009.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/VanPAl0.htm

 

This and the Pats offense is all stuff you could verify on a site like pro-football-reference in like 10 seconds or less.

Sure, the Patriots could have done worse than hire Josh McDaniels as OC but "could have done worse" is a very low bar

 

 

Yes..those are facts able Alex Van Pelt, he not better than Josh McDaniels and not consider so in anyway. Also, definitely not what you were arguing about at all. Do you wanna go back to harping on Sam Bradford, that great HOF QB that Josh McDaniels screwed up?

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

You gave me Sam Bradford and I have given you 3 other QBs he has success with? 3 is more than 1.  Your math and mathing to me? I do not have to convince you of anything. You are in a minority.  Enough data shows that. 

 

No, you gave me one other young QB McDaniels has had success with.  I gave you one young QB McDaniels spectacularly failed with - outside the influence of Bill Belichick and the established "Patriots Way".

 

The Patriots did not have a successful offense with Cam Newton.

The Patriots did have a successful offense with Matt Cassell, but that was very much plugging a veteran guy who had understudied Tom for 5 years at that point, into an existing offensive machine with great talent and a great OL

 

And all of the above was under the aegis of Bill Belichick - who is no longer there.

I suppose we could look at how McDaniel did with Aiden O'Connell.  He wasn't a 1st round pick, and McDaniel was HC not OC, but he surely bears some responsibility there.  That wasn't pretty, either.

[Ghost_002!]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

No, you gave me one other young QB McDaniels has had success with.  I gave you one young QB McDaniels spectacularly failed with - outside the influence of Bill Belichick and the established "Patriots Way".

 

The Patriots did not have a successful offense with Cam Newton.

The Patriots did have a successful offense with Matt Cassell, but that was very much plugging a veteran guy who had understudied Tom for 5 years at that point, into an existing offensive machine with great talent and a great OL

 

And all of the above was under the aegis of Bill Belichick - who is no longer there.

I suppose we could look at how McDaniel did with Aiden O'Connell.  He wasn't a 1st round pick, and McDaniel was HC not OC, but he surely bears some responsibility there.  That wasn't pretty, either.

 

 

I gave you two and then added Jimmy G a few posts ago...all my posts are right there. Even if I take Jimmy G away. I still gave you 2 that were after Tom Brady showing his ability and who produced 10 top offenses, so the argument stops there because I answered the question and all you can give me in return is Sam Bradford.  It's clear no matter the valid points I make you are going to nitpick at them in any way you can find. And we aren't debating him as a head coach. Which all can agree, he sucks at. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Ghost_002!

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

But you completely missed the point of my post. The point of my post was that McDaniels runs the EP and I'm not sold on the EP as a fit for what Drake Maye does best. I actually think AVP's offense was the right sort of scheme. Not saying he is a great playcaller, but schematically I think what that west coast, spread variant asks of a Quarterback is a pretty good fit for what Maye does well. I'd have tried to go for another coach from that sort of tree: Bill Lazor was the name I threw out there as someone who has run it previously. Or Frank Reich if he would be interested in being an OC again. Josh is fine as a hire. I think he is a decent coach. But it means changing systems and while there is some cross over between the EP and the West Coast spread variant there are some differences too and mentally I think it is a bit more taxing on the QB. 

 

I'm great with Josh as a hire - from the point of view of a Bills fan!!!!!

 

The situation you allude to  - taking a young QB who has had success with a WCO offense and moving them to a EP offense - is exactly the situation that led to very poor results with Sam Bradford in St Louis.  Bradford looked decent under Pat Shurmur, who has a track record of bringing out the best in QB - and then after McDaniels left, looking decent again under Brian Shottenheimer.  With McDaniels, he looked like he flat out couldn't play football.  It wasn't like Bradford was a tempermental diva either.  His press conferences were painful to watch that year, he was so sincerely earnest about how he believes in their offensive system.  He pretty clearly was trying his best.

 

Keep in mind that it's not just the QB who has to adjust, it's the entire offense that needs to learn a new terminology and new ways of thinking about plays.  The whole offense has to learn it, and buy into it.  That may have played a reasonably significant role in what sunk the Rams offense that season.
 

6 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

I gave you two and then added Jimmy G a few posts ago...all my posts are right there. Even if I take Jimmy G away. I still gave you 2 that were after Tom Brady showing his ability and who produced 10 top offenses, so the argument, stops there because I answered the question and all you can give me in return is Sam Bradford.  It's clear no matter the valid points I make you are going to nitpick at them in any way you can find. And we aren't debating him as a head coach. 

 

Excuse me, who were the two that were top 10 offenses McDaniels was coordinator for after Tom Brady left?   I do apologize, but I must have missed the second one whilst correcting your misunderstanding of Alex Van Pelt's previous experience as offensive coordinator.

The Patriots had 1 top 10 offensive year after Brady left - 2021 with Mac Jones.

 

Who and where was the second?

 

You're missing the point about Sam Bradford.   I'm not playing a "numbers game".  I'm looking for relevant examples: examples where McDaniels, as OC, worked with and developed a young QB as starter in his rookie or 2nd season.  I can find two examples: Sam Bradford, and Mac Jones.

If Josh McDaniels gets an "A" for Mac Jones, but an "F" for Sam Bradford, that at best gives him a very mixed track record working with young QBs.  This really shouldn't be hard to understand.

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Beck Water

[Ghost_002!]

16 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm great with Josh as a hire - from the point of view of a Bills fan!!!!!

 

The situation you allude to  - taking a young QB who has had success with a WCO offense and moving them to a EP offense - is exactly the situation that led to very poor results with Sam Bradford in St Louis.  Bradford looked decent under Pat Shurmur, who has a track record of bringing out the best in QB - and then after McDaniels left, looking decent again under Brian Shottenheimer.  With McDaniels, he looked like he flat out couldn't play football.  It wasn't like Bradford was a tempermental diva either.  His press conferences were painful to watch that year, he was so sincerely earnest about how he believes in their offensive system.  He pretty clearly was trying his best.

 

Keep in mind that it's not just the QB who has to adjust, it's the entire offense that needs to learn a new terminology and new ways of thinking about plays.  The whole offense has to learn it, and buy into it.  That may have played a reasonably significant role in what sunk the Rams offense that season.

 

Excuse me, who were the two that were top 10 offenses McDaniels was coordinator for after Tom Brady left?   I do apologize, but I must have missed the second one whilst correcting your misunderstanding of Alex Van Pelt's previous experience as offensive coordinator.

The Patriots had 1 top 10 offensive year after Brady left - 2021 with Mac Jones.

 

Who and where was the second?

 

 

 

 

Matt Cassell. 08 season. Top 10 offense. 

 

And I already know, "big deal they had the same offense from 07 which was historical. My rebuttal to that is. It takes more to "plug and play" at QB even with great players around them in the NFL. 

 

The Dolphins aren't the same offense without Tua in there. And you arent fooling anyone...I mention all those QBs WAY BEFORE the mentioning of Alex Van Pelt. ha ha

 

ha ha Alex Van Pelt and Sam Bradford, the NFLs best kept secrets..

Edited 4 hours ago by Ghost_002!

[Beck Water]

38 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Matt Cassell. 08 season. Top 10 offense. 

 

And I already know, "big deal they had the same offense from 07 which was historical. My rebuttal to that is. It takes more to "plug and play" at QB even with great players around them in the NFL. 

 

The Dolphins aren't the same offense without Tua in there. 

 

 

You said " Even if I take Jimmy G away. I still gave you 2 that were after Tom Brady showing his ability and who produced 10 top offenses"

 

Matt Cassell was in the middle of the Brady era, so he is not the answer to my question "who were those two after Tom Brady"?

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Beck Water

[Ghost_002!]

32 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

You said " Even if I take Jimmy G away. I still gave you 2 that were after Tom Brady showing his ability and who produced 10 top offenses"

 

Matt Cassell was in the middle of the Brady era, so he is not the answer to my question "who were those two after Tom Brady"?

 

 

 

ha ha just like clockwork. You're being obtuse, just to be obtuse. Matt Cassell spent the whole 08 season under center for the patriots. all but 1 game and that was the first game. That is a large enough simple for anyone who wants to be logical to see if the OC can do his job with another QB. Again, I'll remind you. Cassell was a 7th round QB who was a backup up until that point. Went on to have some success in KC. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Ghost_002!