Dion Dawkins and the Bills ripped off - Baldy agrees

[Livinginthepast]

5 hours ago, QB Bills said:

To be fair, that PI call on Tre White was ridiculous and benefitted us far more than this holding call hurt.

 

Really can't complain about the refs this past Sunday. Saving all of that for this week 🙂 

I dont think they were comparable. Dawkins play was in way shape or form a hold. The Tre play was a harsh call, but contact happened and Coleman sold it well. To a ref in real time it looked a lot like interference.

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Maybe there's another replay out there that will show something different but this is not DPI. If anything, they could have called Coleman for this. But with how Andrews was committing OPI on every route, they seemed to let them play on that side of the ball.

 

This was a third down play that was a pretty big turning point in the game imo.

Thats a Let them play, play after reviewing it

But i can see it being called by the ref, right or wrong.

Maybe the refs owed the ravens one  ( lol) hardly

[JoshAllin]

Looked as if the refs knew they messed up and stopped calling any questionable ones all game. And made up for the call with the coleman pi (which could've gone either way) or if coleman falls down with him as soon as contact occurred he'd get the flag easily

 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by JoshAllin

[Old Coot]

Re the dawkins call: it was a bad call.

 

In fairness to rge ref his vision was impeded when Dawkins swiped 90's hands down causing 90 to fall. At that time a Bills' player runs between Dawkins and the ref so the ref's vision may have been blocked.

 

That said, the ref is only supposed to call fouls that he actually sees.

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I sort of agree.  A lot of it is tough to make simple, but I think there are some things that could be done. 

 

First, as to what's a catch, I've actually stopped worrying about it, because I don't see too many plays where a real injustice has been done.  We all know what a catch looks like and when a ball has been caught.  It's easiest to think about a second baseman taking the relay from the shortstop, or even an outfielder dropping the ball after hitting the wall - we know what's a catch and what isn't.  The problem is to describe that in words, because replay is going to be looking at it, and they need to know what the rules are that they should apply.  In Ultimate, the rule is that the player caught the disc when it's in their possession and the disc has stopped rotating.  That's pretty good, and maybe that plus two feet down would satisfy you and me.  Actually, as we saw this year, I think maybe it should be two feet down or one foot down twice.  Someone this season caught a ball and the end zone and for some reason hopped - he took two steps, but they were with the same foot.  It was called incomplete.  What about three hops?  Four?  At some point, it's completely clear that it's a catch, and two feet is just too restrictive. 

 

I think two things have to be done.  First, they need more quick replay reviews. The face mask call that wasn't actually a face mask could have been overturned very quickly with quality reviewers in the press box.  There are multiple mistakes a game, not anyone's fault, just mistakes, and they should be fixed within a minute.  If it's at all unclear, it stays as called on the field, but when you can see, obviously, that the call was wrong, it should be fixed.

 

Second, they need to do something about the ticky-tack stuff.  Ineligible player downfield rule has to be made simpler, or has to be called only when it has an impact.  Teams are getting flagged for that when it had nothing to do with the outcome of the game.  Maybe the line has to be three yards instead of one yard. Something, but those calls are screwing up the game. The officials who call offside and illegal formation should be telling the players in advance of the play that they're lined up wrong.  In basketball, the ref doesn't toss the ball for a jump ball until he's verified that all the other players are outside the circle.  They don't see a guy on the line, toss the ball, then call a violation for being on the line. 

 

Third, they need to get electronics involved in first down measurements, and ball spotting.  My impression was they spotted the ball wrong on Cook's second down run before Josh was stopped on third and goal from the two where a touchdown would have put the game away.  Looked like it should have been at the one.  If it had been at the one, the Bills probably run the sneak, and the game is over.  It all happens so fast in that situation, and it's so hard for the head coach to see it from the sideline that the coach is not going to challenge.  

 

My two and three would get rid of a lot of the officials' responsibilities on stupid stuff and allow them to focus more on the true, tough judgment calls.  

 

I thought he had a bad spot to on that too and down there a foot or two matters.

 

Overall I felt the game flow was not interrupted by a flag fest so it was easier and more entertaining to watch.

 

I am tired of Dion getting flagged for dominant blocking techniques that are as clear as day not holds.

 

 

[harmonkillebrew]

5 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

In real time it looked like white yanked him down.  If you freeze frame stuff its more obvious but the ref who called the penalty had a very good view right on the field.  

 

They also never called a single OPI on baltimore despite numerous pick plays, including a couple full initiated blocks by andrews well before the ball is delivered.  Much like a hold... these are drive killers.  

There were also two DPIs that weren't called, on consecutive plays that killed a scoring op.  They were close, so I'd say the Ravens got away with two and got called with one.  Refs were not on our side by any stretch

[26TrapDraw]

6 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

Lost in the entirety of the game was just how bad and damaging this call was. It is the offense’s version of a very poorly called PI on the defense. Holding calls are drive killers. This is the second time this year Dion has been flagged for masterful o-line play.

 

Obviously, it’s in the history books but c’mon refs - be better with what you are looking at.  

you will probably see a few " phantom" hold calls against KC. That's why we need to go in there and be up 14 zip right out of the chute. When you're playing against the chiefs and the refs who will be deep throating mahomes all game you're gonna need a cushion.

[3rdand12]

26 minutes ago, JoshAllin said:

Looked as if the refs knew they messed up and stopped calling any questionable ones all game. And made up for the call with the coleman pi (which could've gone either way) or if coleman falls down with him as soon as contact occurred he'd get the flag easily

 

 

Teachable moment for Coleman for this Sunday

[Success]

Terrible call - but by the end of the game, I felt like things came close to evening out. We got a few soft ones (nothing phantom like that holding call - but I can't complain about the refs when that was the ONLY call against us the whole game).

 

[dave mcbride]

26 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I thought he had a bad spot to on that too and down there a foot or two matters.

 

Overall I felt the game flow was not interrupted by a flag fest so it was easier and more entertaining to watch.

 

I am tired of Dion getting flagged for dominant blocking techniques that are as clear as day not holds.

 

 

Watched it again last night thinking like you and @Shaw66, but Josh was DEFINITELY down at the two. Not even arguable, and the refs spotted it appropriately. Watch it again from the reverse angle.

25 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

There were also two DPIs that weren't called, on consecutive plays that killed a scoring op.  They were close, so I'd say the Ravens got away with two and got called with one.  Refs were not on our side by any stretch

I thought the non-calls on Shakir and especially Cooper were right. The slight hook on Shakir didn’t impede him (the pass was off anyways) and that literally happens on almost every play. The defenders are actually allowed to contact receivers (after all, it’s a contact sport). Outside of the Dawkins call (compensated for by the very questionable call on Tre White), it was a pretty well officiated game.

[dave mcbride]

38 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

There were also two DPIs that weren't called, on consecutive plays that killed a scoring op.  They were close, so I'd say the Ravens got away with two and got called with one.  Refs were not on our side by any stretch

Recall that at the 5:20 mark, this was not called DPI. 

 

[Simon]

6 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

 

If you finally turtle after running toward the sideline, stopping, and doing a 180 straight back toward the middle of the field jumping around like a Kansas City ferret, I don't think that ought to be considered a valid "slide" to give yourself up as a QB.

 

In real time I thought it was a penalty, but not on the 'backer.

I thought they would call the DT coming late who dropped his head and tried to kill him about 24" off the turf.

 

 

6 hours ago, QB Bills said:

Maybe there's another replay out there that will show something different but this is not DPI. If anything, they could have called Coleman for this. But with how Andrews was committing OPI on every route, they seemed to let them play on that side of the ball.

 

This was a third down play that was a pretty big turning point in the game imo.

 

This was a tricky one.

I think he threw the flag because White was initially beat and tried to recover by cutting off his route, which you are not supposed to do anymore.

Keon certainly tossed him in an attempt to get his arms free so wasn't an innocent party either.

If I'm stripes right there, I don't bother getting a flag out.

[QLBillsFan]

6 hours ago, QB Bills said:

To be fair, that PI call on Tre White was ridiculous and benefitted us far more than this holding call hurt.

 

Really can't complain about the refs this past Sunday. Saving all of that for this week 🙂 

Actually the PI is called 60-70% of the time, and yes it was impactful. As opposed to an off the charts ridiculous holding call that also impacted the game. Bills lose on that trade off.. 

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

In real time I thought it was a penalty, but not on the 'backer.

I thought they would call the DT coming late who dropped his head and tried to kill him about 24" off the turf.

 

 

 

This was a tricky one.

I think he threw the flag because White was initially beat and tried to recover by cutting off his route, which you are not supposed to do anymore.

Keon certainly tossed him in an attempt to get his arms free so wasn't an innocent party either.

If I'm stripes right there, I don't bother getting a flag out.

Meanwhile Ravens fans no comment on DD impactful holding that was as I’ve stated far more egregious. 

[Simon]

14 minutes ago, QLBillsFan said:

Actually the PI is called 60-70% of the time, and yes it was impactful. As opposed to an off the charts ridiculous holding call that also impacted the game. Bills lose on that trade off.

 

Don't underestimate the impact of the call on White.

That PI call came on 3rd down and without it the Bills are looking at a 47 yrd FG on a frozen field.

The Dawkins call cost them about 15yrds but they still had two downs to recover from it and couldn't do it.

[WideNine]

45 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Watched it again last night thinking like you and @Shaw66, but Josh was DEFINITELY down at the two. Not even arguable, and the refs spotted it appropriately. Watch it again from the reverse angle.

I thought the non-calls on Shakir and especially Cooper were right. The slight hook on Shakir didn’t impede him (the pass was off anyways) and that literally happens on almost every play. The defenders are actually allowed to contact receivers (after all, it’s a contact sport). Outside of the Dawkins call (compensated for by the very questionable call on Tre White), it was a pretty well officiated game.

 

I was thinking about where they spotted the ball before Josh's run.

 

I thought that it was a bit short so I should go back and take a look at that again.

 

On the Allen run he ran right into the open arms of their big NT Jones for zilch... so I had no questions regarding that spot.

 

Not sure if we were saving time outs, but maybe a good spot there to think about a better play.

 

Not sure if they would have called something different.

 

Brady said it best that with hindsight being 20/20, of course he wished they did something different there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

I was thinking about where they spotted the ball before Josh's run.

 

I thought that it was a bit short so I should go back and take a look at that again.

 

 

Me too.  What I was saying was that if the ball had been spotted at the one after Cook's run on second down, then on third down they could have run the quarterback sneak and probably gotten the touchdown or at least have left themselves so close to the goal line that they would have a realistic chance on fourth down to go for it. I didn't have a problem with the spot after Josh's third down run.

[QLBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

Don't underestimate the impact of the call on White.

That PI call came on 3rd down and without it the Bills are looking at a 47 yrd FG on a frozen field.

The Dawkins call cost them about 15yrds but they still had two downs to recover from it and couldn't do it.

Fair enough.. but a holding penalty has huge impact but it’s a 50-50 call on the PI vs a call that simple is egregious and it adds 10 yards for a first down I don’t see how that not big.

Edited 4 hours ago by QLBillsFan