Joe Brady, Josh Allen, and the playcalling

[CincyBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Tulsabillsfanz said:

That was shortly after they showed Harbaugh’s halftime comments that Baltimore must stop the run in the second half.  Baltimore was selling out to stop the run. We didn’t adjust our second half play calling to counter that. 

But that appeared to be by design as Brady has shown in the past that he can adjust the game plan with the best of them.  In fact just last week they opened things up on offense and blew the Bronco's out in the 2nd half.  I suspect the conditions last night worried McD that if he started pressing more to put the game away they would commit the type of TO's that the Ravens did.  Agree or disagree with McD's 2nd half assessment, he seemed to think they had the game won at half as long as the Bills didn't give it away with TO's.

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by CincyBillsFan

[Einstein]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

But how do we know Josh wasn't checking to run plays based on looks the defense gave him? 

 

Because its very clear and obvious when Allen audibles. They're not secrets. 

[gonzo1105]

I think a lot of people are still adjusting to the idea that we want to be a ball control methodical team that establishes the run. When our run game is clicking , like in the first half you don’t hear people complain but when the run game bogs down it looks like ultra conservative offense. 
 

Do I agree they could have been more aggressive in the 3rd yes, and the quarter almost cost us the game , but this isn’t the throwing  it all over the field Brian Daboll offense from 2020-2021 

Edited 5 hours ago by gonzo1105

[Breakout Squad]

Nit picking and complaining after a huge playoff win. The Bills wanted to control the game and they did. It was never going to be a pretty game. Enjoy the win guys. 

[Sweats]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

And it's not even big chunk yardage.  It's just enough so that the ball is moving downfield and often your getting the first down with one or two plays, not having to constantly convert third downs.  

 

The Ravens obviously knew the Bills would run a fair amount, and they were ready.  And they knew the Bills like those short passes that really are extensions of the run. The Ravens were ready. And the Ravens were ready to tackle Shakir quickly after a catch.  They get credit for all of that.  The Bills just had to punish them for focusing on those portions of the Bills offense. 

 

And Allen threw poorly.  Just off the top of my head, he missed Cooper badly on one play, and he had someone - Kincaid? - going deep and overthrew him.  Allen threw one of his line drives instead of getting air under it. 

 

The bold part is most important.  McDermott's teams are almost always well prepared, and they have reasons for what they did.  Listening to him in his presser, he didn't sound like he thought the Bills got lucky.  He said the Bills did a lot of what they thought they could do and the Ravens did a lot of what they thought the Ravens could do.  Most telling was what he said about turnovers.  He didn't want to put the Ravens down, but in so many words he said "my team is good at the fundamentals, and if your team isn't, well we just saw happens."  I haven't wanted to jinx him, but Cook isn't fumbling any more.  Josh isn't making dumb plays with the ball any more. Receivers don't fumble. Players don't take dumb penalties. 

 

The Bills won because they play football better than the Ravens, and they do it by doing the most important things right, over and over. 

 

 

 

Here's my way of thinking.......

KC will do the same plays or variations of the same plays over and over during the course of a game and dare you to stop them. Once the team figures it out, they then start another set of plays and go over the whole same scenario.

 

The Bills have always worked the middle of the field and kept at it until the other team caught on and took it away which would then set-up for a long ball or RB sweeps to the outside (which Cook is the best in the league in my opinion), however, against the Ravens yesterday, it's like they didn't even try.

I am of the belief that you keep doing what's working and force the other team to readjust and then reach into your bag of tricks and say, "you want to defend the middle?........no problem, then how about a little sweep action to the edges or a long ball to the outside".

You make the D defend the whole field, not just the middle and that's what had me screaming at the tv last night.

 

It worked for us yesterday, but there's no guarantee that it will work again.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, MikePJ76 said:

You could also credit the ravens for playing good defense.  
 

 

The other team can be great. It does happen.

[US Egg]

23 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Brady was too busy interviewing this week

Can’t believe it took over 12 hrs. for this gem.

 

Thank you for restoring my belief in mankind.

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Perhaps Joe Brady's worst called game in his Bills career.

 

- Not knowing to run QB sneak at the 2 yard line?  QB Sneak at the 2 and a half yard line is NOT a gimme. 
- Sweep after sweep that wasnt working yet he kept doing it. The Bills had the highest run success % of any team against Baltimore all year.

- Refusal to run play-action until the 4th quarter (and it worked when he finally did)

- Tight End screen on 3rd down against press man. Maybe a Josh audible but why is that even an option there? Josh checked to this. Gotta empower the franchise guy.
- Completely neutered the best player in the league Again, Josh's checks and decision making, and some poor throws that Josh made factor into this.

Really hated the game-plan on offense. Frustrating. 

If it wasn't for Baltimore's 3 turnovers, I doubt we crack 20 points.

 

 

My replies in bold.

I had issues with some of the second half play-calling, and it was not my favorite Joe Brady game. I wanted more aggression in the second half.

But I also think you're overstating it, and completely absolving Josh Allen of blame -- both for his checks/audibles and some plays that he himself missed.

Lastly, the Ravens since week 11 are #1 in almost every defensive metric. They are a GOOD defense. And at the end of the day, the Bills scored 27 points against them. Yes, the Bills defense gave them short fields. Still. 27 points.



 

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Because its very clear and obvious when Allen audibles. They're not secrets. 

And yet you're bagging on Joe Brady for the TE screen in a post above, when it seems "very clear and obvious" that Josh audibled to it.
 

[HOUSE]

Tony Romeo ( My hero) says the Bills need to throw more on 1st down and I believe him,  daaa

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

And on another offensive note, I don't trust Coleman at all. I'm genuinely at the point where I think he is better served on the bench. The offense looked fine without him for the month he was injured.

 

I have hopes for him in the future but he simply cant separate right now and when the ball is thrown to him he still has trouble catching it at times. On the play he was "interfered" with (which probably should have been OPI), the ball went right through his hands. 

And if you can't separate against a 30 year old DB coming off a torn ACL and torn achilles, then yikes.

 

That play was a foul by White but it was a hold or illegal contact not DPI. But the issue we have talked about ad nauseum with Keon was there again. Downfield he plays to the contact rather than seeking to use the leverage to create separation. That at this point is who he is and who has been throughout college. IT should be coachable and we just have to hope that with a full NFL offseason where he can concentrate on his craft rather than working our for combine drills and prepping interviews that the Bills can make some progress with him there. 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

QB Sneak at the 2 and a half yard line is NOT a gimme. 

 

The point is to get 1 yard. Then get the 2nd yard on the 4th down. 

Then again, in the first half, Josh Allen plunged 3 yards into the endzone when we were 2 yards out, with a QB sneak. 

We got literally 5 yards on it.

 

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

And yet you're bagging on Joe Brady for the TE screen in a post above, when it seems "very clear and obvious" that Josh audibled to it.

I stated why. In the post you replied to. 

TE screen should not be a check option in that scenario. 

QB's dont go up to the line and then audible to any play they want. They are given the play to run, and then 1 or 2 checks to audible if they need. 

TE screen shouldn't even be on the play sheet in that situation. For a second I wondered if they forgot what down it was.

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That play was a foul by White but it was a hold or illegal contact not DPI. But the issue we have talked about ad nauseum with Keon was there again. Downfield he plays to the contact rather than seeking to use the leverage to create separation. That at this point is who he is and who has been throughout college. IT should be coachable and we just have to hope that with a full NFL offseason where he can concentrate on his craft rather than working our for combine drills and prepping interviews that the Bills can make some progress with him there. 

Don't get me wrong, i'm happy with the call. But I wouldn't have been shocked if it went the other way. 

Agreed about the rest. At some point he has to start catching these.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

My replies in bold.

I had issues with some of the second half play-calling, and it was not my favorite Joe Brady game. I wanted more aggression in the second half.

But I also think you're overstating it, and completely absolving Josh Allen of blame -- both for his checks/audibles and some plays that he himself missed.

Lastly, the Ravens since week 11 are #1 in almost every defensive metric. They are a GOOD defense. And at the end of the day, the Bills scored 27 points against them. Yes, the Bills defense gave them short fields. Still. 27 points.

And yet you're bagging on Joe Brady for the TE screen in a post above, when it seems "very clear and obvious" that Josh audibled to it.
 

 

Add to that in the two "lost drives" in the 3rd they called two downfield play action shots and Josh came off BOTH and threw underneath. Joe Brady can call the plays. He can't go out there and run the routes for them too though. We have a receiver separation problem. Particularly downfield, particularly outside. 

 

Where I think you can legitimately ask a coaching question is why they haven't managed to fully embed a package of plays for Amari Cooper. Even if that is an occasional bolt on to your offense. Without it the Ravens just went back to the week 4 plan on defense 2nd half - we'll take the middle you can have outside if you want it. 

[rockpile]

40 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Whether it was Josh or Brady, I don't know.  I just know I was sitting there saying over and over "throw the ball downfield a bit."  Not bombs away, not 25-yard strikes, just get some 8- and 12-yard gains to get the defense back on its heels.  It seemed all night the Bills were attacking with runs and passes at the line of scrimmage. 

 

I kept waiting to see that too. I got the feeling that the Bills plan, especially in the second half, was to chug out first downs and keep the clock moving. Hey, after all these years, I will take the win 😄 but you make a good point.

 

Glad my team is still alive and  hope they can keep moving the sticks. 

[RochesterLifer]

9 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But that appeared to be by design as Brady has shown in the past that he can adjust the game plan with the best of them.  In fact just last week they opened things up on offense and blew the Bronco's out in the 2nd half.  I suspect the conditions last night worried McD that if he started pressing more to put the game away they would commit the type of TO's that the Ravens did.  Agree or disagree with McD's 2nd half assessment, he seemed to think they had the game won at half as long as the Bills didn't give it away with TO's.

 

 

I think the bolded is the key to last night's second half play calling. I was very frustrated as I watched the second half unfold, wanting the Bills to free Josh. Looking back, every Raven misplay (turnovers and drops) occurred in the open field - the cold, frozen, open field. Upon reflection, in this case, I think McDermott and Brady played it calculated and smart. 

[nedboy7]

Here try something positive for your brain. 

 

 

 

[Tulsabillsfanz]

11 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But that appeared to be by design as Brady has shown in the past that he can adjust the game plan with the best of them.  In fact just last week they opened things up on offense and blew the Bronco's out in the 2nd half.  I suspect the conditions last night worried McD that if he started pressing more to put the game away they would commit the type of TO's that the Ravens did.  Agree or disagree with McD's 2nd half assessment, he seemed to think they had the game won at half as long as the Bills didn't give it away with TO's.

 

 

I do agree with your comments, especially the last sentence.  Ironically, McDermott actually said the opposite with his halftime comments. He said we can’t let up, the game is far from over.  However, I agree he coached like he thought they had the game won if we didn’t give it away with TOs.  Fortunately, he was correct!  

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Einstein said:

QB's dont go up to the line and then audible to any play they want. They are given the play to run, and then 1 or 2 checks to audible if they need. 

 

 

The reason it will be on the call sheet is they have audibles based on looks. If Josh thinks he is getting an overload blitz up the middle his audible is screen outside. That won't be a choice of plays in the huddle thing that will be a basic install audible. 

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Here try something positive for your brain. 

 

 

 

Did you listen to the video you posted. They're all talking about how Baltimore outplayed us.

One even says "I have no idea how Buffalo won that game" and says Baltimore tried to give us the game multiple times and we never ran away with it, letting them hang in there.

Thats what a lot of us are saying.

[SinceThe70s]

26 minutes ago, Logic said:

I am of the belief that it is incredibly difficult for the average fan to reasonably judge an offensive gameplan in the NFL for the reasons you state.

We, as fans, don't know the following:

- what the called play was

- whether or not the QB checked to a different play

- what the defense did or didn't show vs the original call to warrant a check

- whether that check was the right decision

- whether the protections were set correctly, which hugely impacts the play success

- whether the OL and skill players executed the play call the way it was supposed to be executed or committed an error

- what the defense did to confuse or outscheme the offensive playcall 

 

So we can all sit here from the comfort of our armchairs, without most of that information (maybe the really sharp viewers know the answer to SOME of those questions, SOME of the time, but most don't) and say "Brady called a bad game" or "what was up with those playcalls?". But the reality is that there are simply so many variables that fans are not privy to.

Using last night as an example, I think most of us were frustrated at how conservative the Bills seemed to be in the third quarter, how much they ran the ball on 1st down, how little they trusted Allen to make plays in the passing game, etc. 

But how do we know Josh wasn't checking to run plays based on looks the defense gave him? How do we know that Josh wasn't surveying the defense presented, deciding that a run play was the "right" call vs that defense, and then the offensive players just got out-executed by the defensive players?

I'll admit that the playcalling in the third quarter (and part of the fourth) vexed me at times. But I never forget two things: One, I'm missing a ton of information (as stated above), and two, the other guys get paid, too. It's not as simple as many want to make it out to be.

 

I can agree with this post while at the same appreciate the "know-it-all" posters who would clearly be coach of the year perennially given the opportunity. 

[McBean]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

I'll have to go look at the all-22, but I think a lot of the bad play calls on those two third-quarter drives were audibles. Let's take those WR screens that went nowhere as an example. As we know, the Ravens have been historically great at simulated pressure. My memory of those plays is that the Ravens simulated blitzers and Josh audibled into those screens to beat the blitz. Not a bad play call. But then, the Ravens backed out and covered the flats and blew up the screens. I think this happened at least twice. I'm also pretty sure Josh called his own number on those QB sneaks at the goal line. My broader point is that we don't know if plays that don't work are because Joe Brady called them or if Josh Allen misread the defense and audibled into the wrong play.

I don’t know what happened. It was bad. However, I’m glad that we FINALLY came out on the right side of this game for once.

 

i can’t remember the last time we won a game like that.