Dalton Kincaid- why so underwhelming this season?

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

You really think Fraizer left on his own?

 

Don't forget about firing Dennison

 

I did forget Dennison. And on Frazier, I don't think. I know. From as close as you can get to the horses mouth. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Love this one.

 

lets break it down.

 

is Josh Allen a top 2 QB in football? Yes of course, right?

 

Is Brandon Beane a top 2 GM?

 

Is Sean McDermott a top 2 HC?

 

Is there anyone on the Bills top 2 at their position?

 

Is the entire Bills roster top 2 in talent?

 

The answer to every question other than the one about Josh is clearly “no,” to everyone. 
 

So they are legitimately all second-rate, relatively. Except for Josh.

 

Fun stuff!

 

 

What you do, you go buy yourself a dictionary. Then you look up the phrase "second rate."

 

Then, if you've got a clue you'll find that neither Brandon Beane nor Sean McDermott nor the entire Bills roster could be called second-rate, unless the person doing the calling had a mind that was second-rate.

 

 

[Jrb1979]

IMO a lot of the underwhelming views come from, how hyped many were for Kincaid. From his scouting report and the draft, fans were hoping for that elite TE and to be the Gronk of the Bills. 

 

He's going to be a very good player, I don't think he is going to a standout like many hoped. 

[BillsPride12]

Just now, Jrb1979 said:

IMO a lot of the underwhelming views come from, how hyped many were for Kincaid. From his scouting report and the draft, fans were hoping for that elite TE and to be the Gronk of the Bills. 

 

He's going to be a very good player, I don't think he is going to a standout like many hoped. 

That combined with how good LaPorta has looked in Detroit.  I don't think Kincaid is a bum but I don't think he lives up to the heightened expectations created for him.

[JohnNord]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did forget Dennison. And on Frazier, I don't think. I know. From as close as you can get to the horses mouth. 

Several reporters have said the same thing.  If they had plans to move on from Frazier, why wait until March when most coaching positions are filled?  
 

Regardless, whether it’s Dennison, Crossman, Farwell, Dorsey or Smiley, McDermott has typically made good decisions moving on from his staff

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, QCity said:

Maybe he just isn't that good.

 

 

All you've got to do to know that's not true is to look at his first year.

 

Tying for 7th in receptions and being 10th in yards - as a rookie - and you know he's plenty good.

 

How good exactly? Not enough info yet.

 

In any case, saw this recommended in the Shout podcast and I took a look. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/matthew-berry/news/matthew-berrys-25-most-interesting-things-he-heard-at-2025-nfl-combine

 

The relevant part:

 

"22. I talked with a Bills source who told me Dalton Kincaid’s lack of production last year was because he was a lot more injured than folks realized. 'He’s gonna be a sleeper next year, trust me,' I was told. What about Amari Cooper, I asked? A shrug. 'He might be done.' The implication to me being that Cooper’s days as an elite WR1 might be over, not that he would be leaving Buffalo. I still expect that if anyone would be the focal point of the Bills’ passing offense, it would have to be Khalil Shakir."

[Chandler#81]

cuz he didn’t do shart anything to improve himself from his rookie season. He better be working out now! Brass told him to githizazz in gear this offseason.

[QCity]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I did forget Dennison. And on Frazier, I don't think. I know. From as close as you can get to the horses mouth. 

 

You might want to check what horses you are talking to.

[3rdand12]

7 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

That combined with how good LaPorta has looked in Detroit.  I don't think Kincaid is a bum but I don't think he lives up to the heightened expectations created for him.

I might suggest Dorsey made poor use of the TEs and season fairly wasted with that position. And if I recall we expected more use of them with Dalton as a speed TE.

Last year was everyone eats , and again Dalton was not standing out. (i have put the blame on injuries of sort , by watching him a little)

 I hope Brady finds a way to bring out his talents and build on Knox finally being solid enough.

Just not sure what Brady wants from the TE room yet, an in line blocker ?
With Morris not being used last year either much , I dont know.

Now if you are talking about trading for an elite player such as Metcalf of Myles etc ?

 Easy for me to agree to package him. He surely has value

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

It's rather humorous how sensitive the church of McD is. 

 

 

Yeah, people with distorted views do find humor in stuff that's not actually funny.

 

People who you go into their barn and you see it's filled with torches and pitchforks and "McDermott is the monster," signs? They come across an observatory and perceive a church? Those guys?

 

Yeah, guys like that do indeed tend to have warped senses of humor. But we shouldn't hold it against them. Kinda cute, really.

 

 

Edited Friday at 06:16 AM by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, QCity said:

 

You might want to check what horses you are talking to.

 

 

Nah. When what you get from the horses mouth lines up with what makes sense ... it's probably simply because it's right despite some people wanting to believe in a conspiracy for which there's zero evidence.

[Doc Brown]

22 hours ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Rick Dennison enters the chat … 

Nabbing Dorsey from Alabama is an underrated Sean McDermott move even if they butted heads that last season.

[Nihilarian]

Opposing teams thought Kincade was going to be a big part of the 2024 Buffalo passing offense and they worked to take him out of games. Everyone thought that Kincade was going to be a main target for Joah Allen in his second season. Torn PCL in week ten came when chasing down an inaccurate throw.

 

With Kincade only 69% of targets overall thrown to tight ends with over 200 targets were catchable.

 

Then when Kincade was targeted 10 or more yards down the field only 37% of the targets were catchable. 

 

 

Can Dalton Kincaid Become the Buffalo Bills and Josh Allen’s Key Offensive Weapon? - YouTube

 

[Mikie2times]

19 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

What you do, you go buy yourself a dictionary. Then you look up the phrase "second rate."

 

Then, if you've got a clue you'll find that neither Brandon Beane nor Sean McDermott nor the entire Bills roster could be called second-rate, unless the person doing the calling had a mind that was second-rate.

 

 

Actual player recognition, via pro bowl and all pro voting doesn’t align with this. We don’t have another player in the top 100 as of last year. A few could crack it in 2025. 
 

Average winning %’s of teams with exceptional QB play supports our record independently of other variables. Those teams post +65% winning %’s historically. 

 

Claiming all of it is excellent is just as off base as all of it sucks. It can’t be all good and it can’t be all bad. If I had to actually be balanced here, I would discredit the roster more than McD at this point. B coach, with a C+ roster, and Josh easily lands us where we are in this deplorable division.
 

We have had more talent in other years but last year it was league average at best outside of Allen. Our defensive data aligns with that and if you remove Allen with a replacement level QB what exactly do you think the offense would do? Would it rank in the top 15? Seems like a stretch….:
 

McD does a great job developing turnover battle winning squads. He is a good leader. That’s enough to get him a B grade even  if I’m not a fan of the rest of it. But even with McD, is he not a meddling .500 guy without Josh? (he is actually under .500 without Josh FYI)
 

So while I know all of you try to separate Allen from this and give everybody flowers like these are 8 year olds needing a trophy, the reality is our success is very top heavy with Josh. Which is why it never lasts very long in the postseason. He covers so many warts it’s hard to fully compute.

Edited Friday at 10:35 AM by Mikie2times

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Nabbing Dorsey from Alabama is an underrated Sean McDermott move even if they butted heads that last season.

 

You mean Daboll

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Claiming all of it is excellent is just as off base as all of it sucks. It can’t be all good and it can’t be all bad. If I had to actually be balanced here, I would discredit the roster more than McD at this point. But a B coach, with C+ roster, and Josh easily lands us where we are in this deplorable division.
 

We have had more talent in other years but last year it was league average at best outside of Allen. Our defensive data aligns with that and if you remove Allen, what exactly do you think the offense would do? 

 

I think that is pretty much right. I would often say to people in the drought era when they couldn't countenance any credit to any player or any thing..... just because the Bills are bad does mean every player is bad an every decision is wrong. Equally now when the Bills are good it doesn't mean every player is good and every decision they make is right. Both of those positions are major over simplifications. 

 

And agree we have had some talented rosters in the past. I think the 2022 roster going into that year looked pretty stacked (possible except for offensive line). But then Tre came back and wasn't the same guy, Von tore his ACL, Micah had the neck injury, Josh got banged up and had some off the field distractions and they were never quite the dominant force they had been the first 6 to 8 weeks. The 2024 roster I think overperformed expectation by a regular season win or two and probably by a round in the post-season. That isn't to excuse the AFCCG loss, because the Bills had opportunities to win that game that they missed. But that was a year of small overachievement.

 

And even within that, to bring it back to the OT Kincaid was a disappointment. I have said I'd be open to trading him. Not for pennies in the pound or anything, I don't want to give him away.... but this is a deep tight end class - I think Knox is a better fit for the offense we want to run and if there was a good deal out there for Dalton that got us a day 2 pick back? I'd definitely consider it. I don't think it will happen mind you and on the basis he is still here 2025 is massive for Dalton. They have to take the option decision at the end of next year and right now, I'm pretty sure they would decline it. He needs to move the dial. 

 

p.s. - just one point on the "if you remove Allen" thing 'cos it gets thrown out a lot... I think there is such a range within removing Allen. Are we removing him and starting Mitch Trubisky? Because that is only happening with an injury and if any team loses their franchise QB for most of the year they are pretty sunk. Let's say Josh's broken hand week 1 was a broken wrist (thank the fates it wasn't).... I think we'd have ended up maybe a 5 win team.

[Doc Brown]

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You mean Daboll

Gosh darn it.....

 

[Thurman#1]

21 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Actual player recognition, via pro bowl and all pro voting doesn’t align with this. We don’t have another player in the top 100 as of last year. A few could crack it in 2025. 
 

Average winning %’s of teams with exceptional QB play supports our record independently of other variables. Those teams post +65% winning %’s historically. 

 

Claiming all of it is excellent is just as off base as all of it sucks. It can’t be all good and it can’t be all bad. If I had to actually be balanced here, I would discredit the roster more than McD at this point. B coach, with a C+ roster, and Josh easily lands us where we are in this deplorable division.
 

We have had more talent in other years but last year it was league average at best outside of Allen. Our defensive data aligns with that and if you remove Allen with a replacement level QB what exactly do you think the offense would do? Would it rank in the top 15? Seems like a stretch….:
 

McD does a great job developing turnover battle winning squads. He is a good leader. That’s enough to get him a B grade even  if I’m not a fan of the rest of it. But even with McD, is he not a meddling .500 guy without Josh? (he is actually under .500 without Josh FYI)
 

So while I know all of you try to separate Allen from this and give everybody flowers like these are 8 year olds needing a trophy, the reality is our success is very top heavy with Josh. Which is why it never lasts very long in the postseason. He covers so many warts it’s hard to fully compute.

 

 

Again, buy yourself a dictionary. You are completely misusing the phrase "second-rate." It doesn't mean what you apparently think it does.

 

Calling the Bills coach, GM or roster second-rate is just pure dumbage. 

 

Says a ton more about you than it does about the Bills.

 

Claiming that it's ridiculous to call it all excellent, as you did in another post here? Much more reasonable. Worth having a discussion about. Calling it all second-rate, though? Just dumb.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Thurman#1

[Mikie2times]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Again, buy yourself a dictionary. You are completely misusing the phrase "second-rate." It doesn't mean what you apparently think it does.

 

Calling the Bills coach, GM or roster second-rate is just pure dumbage. 

 

Says a ton more about you than it does about the Bills.

 

Claiming that it's ridiculous to call it all excellent, as you did in another post here? Much more reasonable. Worth having a discussion about. Calling it all second-rate, though? Just dumb.

 

Ever notice the how the pro McD posters are so intolerant of other opinions they go to personal insults? They can’t just talk about the subject. Not just you, several of you. It sort of speaks a little deeper to the quality of these posters and the opinions they have. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Mikie2times

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Mikie2times said:

Ever notice the how the pro McD posters are so intolerant of other opinions they go to personal insults? They can’t just talk about the subject. Not just you, several of you. It sort of speaks a little deeper to the quality of these posters and the opinions they have. 

 

 

First, take another look. That's now TWO pure mistakes you've made, within like a page.

 

I didn't insult you. I insulted your opinion. And just to repeat, the reason that I called your opinion dumb, is that it's dumb. So, when you say, referring to my post, "they go to personal insults," you're wrong. And when you say, "they can't just talk about the subject, wrong again.

 

I guess being wrong so consistently could be said to apply to the quality of the posters, possibly. But that would be you saying that, not me. 

 

And yet again, you are seriously mis-using the word second-rate. Again, if you check the dictionary, you might possibly at the very least change the way you expressed yourself there.

 

Because, again, saying that the Bills GM, the Bills coach, and the Bills roster are "second-rate" is just dumbage. See what I did there, yet again? I insulted an opinion.