Lamar Jackson - Popular Opinion

[Behindenemylines]

I am a firm believer that Lamar will never win you a Championship.  He is gifted beyond belief physically, but doesn’t have the mental fortitude to get you there.  
 

I like him as a player, he’s so fun to watch, but there is certainly something missing for a complete championship player. Much along the lines of Cam Newton.  

[VW82]

I liked OP and so I responded favourably to Lamar.  

 

He was good yesterday! It is not his fault Ravens lost. He had two turnovers yes, one of which was his fault and the other was tough with the bad snap and extreme cold. Outside of those two plays, he was outstanding, responsible for way more drive extending plays than Josh, way more explosive plays than Josh, and he did it even though his teammates kept dropping and fumbling the ball. 

 

Tip your hat to a worthy adversary. That's what this thread should have been. Instead, it's all insecurity and bad faith arguments and downvoting people complimenting Lamar. Fo shame. 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by VW82

[HOUSE]

Not the best QB from 2018 but he's pretty good. Better than Baker

[UKBillFan]

4 minutes ago, VW82 said:

I liked OP and so I responded favourably to Lamar.  

 

He was good yesterday! It is not his fault Ravens lost. He had two turnovers yes, one of which was his fault and the other was tough with the bad snap and extreme cold. Outside of those two plays, he was outstanding, responsible for way more drive extending plays than Josh, way more explosive plays than Josh, and he did it even though his teammates kept dropping and fumbling the ball. 

 

Tip your hat to a worthy adversary. That's what this thread should have been. Instead, it's all insecurity and bad faith arguments. Fo shame. 

 

 

 

Regarding the fumble, it was a bad snap but he'd recovered control and was looking to make a play when he dropped the ball.

 

Admiring Lamar is one thing. Making out he had no hand in the Ravens going out is something else. Josh had a better game because he protected the ball. Lamar didn't. Twice.

[VW82]

5 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Regarding the fumble, it was a bad snap but he'd recovered control and was looking to make a play when he dropped the ball.

 

Admiring Lamar is one thing. Making out he had no hand in the Ravens going out is something else. Josh had a better game because he protected the ball. Lamar didn't. Twice.

 

Turning it over twice was tough, but outside of those plays he was excellent. He finished with a higher QB rating and QBR than Josh despite the turnovers. He overcame numerous mistakes from his teammates, the likes of which would have been castigated if it had been Josh's teammates to the point where most of the responsibility for the loss would've been placed at their feet instead of Josh's if the roles were reversed.

 

Lamar bears some responsibility for the loss, yes. Mostly he was fantastic though and the main reason they had a chance. 

Edited 5 hours ago by VW82

[UKBillFan]

Just now, VW82 said:

 

Turning it over twice was tough, but outside of those plays he was excellent. He finished with a higher QB rating and QBR than Josh despite the turnovers. He overcame numerous mistakes from his teammates, the likes of which would castigated if it had been Josh's teammates to the point where most of the responsibility for the loss would've been placed at their feet instead of Josh's. 

 

Lamar bears some responsibility for the loss, yes. Mostly he was fantastic though and the main reason they had a chance. 

 

You could say that about any QB. Take out the turnovers and they did their job. Lamar had a great second half when they got Henry going. He is a fantastic QB. But, despite stats which don't stand up to scrutiny, I cannot sit here and say someone who was solely responsible for one turnover and majorly responsible for another, which cost them the game, was better. And you may say Josh would get a free ride in here - debatable - but he wouldn't be getting the support from the media Lamar's getting now if the performances were reversed.

[VW82]

13 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

You could say that about any QB. Take out the turnovers and they did their job. Lamar had a great second half when they got Henry going. He is a fantastic QB. But, despite stats which don't stand up to scrutiny, I cannot sit here and say someone who was solely responsible for one turnover and majorly responsible for another, which cost them the game, was better. And you may say Josh would get a free ride in here - debatable - but he wouldn't be getting the support from the media Lamar's getting now if the performances were reversed.

 

I disagree with most of this.

 

I can't say that about most QBs (more like very few). Lamar was good early outside of the turnovers and it wasn't because of Henry who had drops. The two turnovers weren't what ultimately cost them the game - they were part of what cost them but there were many mistakes made by Ravens and it was still 7-7 after the second TOV with 70+ yards to go. Josh would've been given the same treatment by media if the roles were reversed because ultimately it wasn't Lamar's fault.

 

 

This entire thread outside of OP is overcompensation for the fact there was an MVP debate. People are too caught up in looking for any excuse to trash Lamar as a way to prop up Josh. 

Edited 5 hours ago by VW82

[Spiderweb]

39 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

I am a firm believer that Lamar will never win you a Championship.  He is gifted beyond belief physically, but doesn’t have the mental fortitude to get you there.  
 

I like him as a player, he’s so fun to watch, but there is certainly something missing for a complete championship player. Much along the lines of Cam Newton.  

Just listen to him speak ....

[dave mcbride]

28 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Not the best QB from 2018 but he's pretty good. Better than Baker

They’re all good. Great QB draft.

2 minutes ago, Spiderweb said:

Just listen to him speak ....

What do you mean by that?

[tigerthelion]

9 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I disagree with most of this.

 

Lamar was good early outside of the turnovers and it wasn't because of Henry who had drops. The two turnovers weren't what ultimately cost them the game - they were part of what cost them but there were many mistakes made by Ravens and it was still 7-7 after the second TOV with 70+ yards to go. Josh would've been given the same treatment by media if the roles were reversed.   

There are plenty of videos out there to disprove the bolded.  I mean, let's deal in reality here.  Allen has put up all time great performances in the playoffs and still is considered a choker in media circles.  

 

Remember last year against the Eagles, when Josh was the best player on the field that week in the entire NFL and the response by the "experts" was that he lost the game because of one interception.  Remember when they said he was not clutch?  A turnover machine?  I remember it.  

 

Josh could have thrown for four hundred yards against the Ravens in a losing effort and he would have been skewered in the media if he had one turnover, let alone two.   Look at his last two performances against KC, and listen to the calls that he can't beat Mahomes and is not a winner.  

Edited 5 hours ago by tigerthelion

[VW82]

2 minutes ago, tigerthelion said:

There are plenty of videos out there to disprove the bolded.  I mean, let's deal in reality here.  Allen has put up all time great performances in the playoffs and still is considered a choker in media circles.  

 

Remember last year against the Eagles, when Josh was the best player on the field that week in the entire NFL and the response by the "experts" was that he lost the game because of one interception.  Remember when they said he was not clutch?  A turnover machine?  I remember it.  

 

Josh could have thrown for four hundred yards against the Ravens in a losing effort and he would have been skewered in the media.   Look at his last two performances against KC, and listen to the calls that he can't beat Mahomes and is not a winner.  

 

You're living in a bad dream of your own making. There are few, if any, media that would call Josh a choker. If anything, media are discounting Bills because they think Josh is carrying a weak roster year after year. Any naysayers were drowned out long ago. 

[Boatdrinks]

34 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Regarding the fumble, it was a bad snap but he'd recovered control and was looking to make a play when he dropped the ball.

 

Admiring Lamar is one thing. Making out he had no hand in the Ravens going out is something else. Josh had a better game because he protected the ball. Lamar didn't. Twice.

This is correct. He could have fallen on the ball and took the loss, lived to fight another down. He tried to recover and make a play, just doing a bit too much for the situation. He’s a great player , but not free from criticism. Other Ravens made mistakes too, but Jackson had two critical turnovers. 

[tigerthelion]

6 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

You're living in a bad dream of your own making. There are few, if any, media that would call Josh a choker. If anything, media are discounting Bills because they think Josh is carrying a weak roster year after year. Any naysayers were drowned out long ago. 

No dream, my friend.  I have ears and eyes. 

[UKBillFan]

27 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I disagree with most of this.

 

I can't say that about most QBs (more like very few). Lamar was good early outside of the turnovers and it wasn't because of Henry who had drops. The two turnovers weren't what ultimately cost them the game - they were part of what cost them but there were many mistakes made by Ravens and it was still 7-7 after the second TOV with 70+ yards to go. Josh would've been given the same treatment by media if the roles were reversed because ultimately it wasn't Lamar's fault.

 

 

This entire thread outside of OP is overcompensation for the fact there was an MVP debate. People are too caught up in looking for any excuse to trash Lamar as a way to prop up Josh. 

 

The fumble was one thing which cost them the game. Take the TD off the Bills and the Ravens win. He got lucky on the INT the Bills got called back on a non-existent penalty. With an eleven point lead - 7 of which came from one of the turnovers - at the half, the Bills went conservative, which I hated. 

 

Lamar is not solely responsible for the loss, but he played his part. Josh wasn't at his best yesterday but he protected the ball. He handed the Ravens nothing. Lamar helped the Bills to 7 and was a flag away from possibly more.

Edited 4 hours ago by UKBillFan

[JP51]

23 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

LOL.  You high or drunk.  His TOs help lose the game.  Josh was steady and did what the coaches had him do.

Yeah I struggle to find my way to he outplayed Josh. Like 2 massive turnovers don't count. But that's just me 

[CincyBillsFan]

42 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

I disagree with most of this.

 

I can't say that about most QBs (more like very few). Lamar was good early outside of the turnovers and it wasn't because of Henry who had drops. The two turnovers weren't what ultimately cost them the game - they were part of what cost them but there were many mistakes made by Ravens and it was still 7-7 after the second TOV with 70+ yards to go. Josh would've been given the same treatment by media if the roles were reversed because ultimately it wasn't Lamar's fault.

 

 

This entire thread outside of OP is overcompensation for the fact there was an MVP debate. People are too caught up in looking for any excuse to trash Lamar as a way to prop up Josh. 

No one is trashing Jackson to prop up Allen.  That is a straw man argument.  Look at the Ravens record when Henry has 20 or more carry's versus less then that.  Jackson's improved play this season is due in large part to the addition of Henry. 

 

And there is no way the NFL media would be treating Allen the same way as they've been treating Jackson if the results were reversed.

 

 

 

 

[VW82]

31 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

The fumble was one thing which cost them the game. Take the TD off the Bills and the Ravens win. He got lucky on the INT the Bills got called back on a non-existent penalty. With an eleven point lead - 7 of which came from one of the turnovers - at the half, the Bills went conservative, which I hated. 

 

Lamar is not solely responsible for the loss, but he played his part. Josh wasn't at his best yesterday but he protected the ball. He handed the Ravens nothing. Lamar helped the Bills to 7 and was a flag away from possibly more.

 

Again, it was 7-7 when Lamar fumbled, and he did it on our 28 yard line. It was somewhat unlucky for them that a) they didn't recover, and b) Von returned it 40 yards. Even still, that happened at the top of the 2nd quarter. It was hardly what cost them the game. 

 

 

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, VW82 said:

 

Again, it was 7-7 when Lamar fumbled, and he did it on our 28 yard line. It was somewhat unlucky for them that a) they didn't recover, and b) Von returned it 40 yards. Even still, that happened at the top of the 2nd quarter. It was hardly what cost them the game. 

 

 

 

Of course it was one thing which cost them the game. Not the only thing but one thing.

[VW82]

17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

No one is trashing Jackson to prop up Allen.  That is a straw man argument.  Look at the Ravens record when Henry has 20 or more carry's versus less then that.  Jackson's improved play this season is due in large part to the addition of Henry. 

 

And there is no way the NFL media would be treating Allen the same way as they've been treating Jackson if the results were reversed.

 

 

No one is trashing Lamar? Have you read this thread? 

 

Your second paragraph is a strawman argument. 

 

2x MVP Lamar Jackson needed Henry to improve his level of play?? C'mon.

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

 

Of course it was one thing which cost them the game. Not the only thing but one thing.

 

Had Andrews caught the conversion and Ravens beaten us in OT, we could just as easily point to our inability to punch it in from the 2 which cost us the game. See how easy that is? 

[Doc]

Why do some keep pretending like the Ravens scored their final TD with no/little time left on the clock?  There was a minute and a half left.