Lamar Jackson - Popular Opinion

[Dukestreetking]

17 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

And they have a cool band that was formerly the Baltimore Colts Band which they kept active when the Colts moved out in the middle of the night and are now the Ravens Band. Very cool IMHO.

 

Thanks for this reminder. Great documentary on this band, I think it was ESPN 30-30. Showed a ton of heart re the city and fans.

[Virgil]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

If we were lucky to escape with a win (and you may be at least partially correct), that means to me that if we play our best game we should be able to destroy The KC Swifties.  

I truly think the Chiefs and Bills game is more like a wild card game against a divisional opponent.  Yes, the roster talent matters, but it goes beyond that.  These two teams know each other so well, that anything can happen. 

[Chugga]

3 hours ago, dma0034 said:

 

3. Lamar has a playoff problem. So do the Ravens as a whole but he has multiple turnovers in 4 out of his 8 playoff games. This year he had one interception that wasn't off his WR's hands and he quickly throws a terrible pick to Rapp. On the fumble he had Likely immediately and chose to try and deke and wasn't aware that the ball was slippery or something? The Ravens may be the most talented team in the league (either them or the Eagles imo) and yet continue to fail. Makes me wonder about whether John Harbaugh is a problem or not

 

4. I question if Lamar will ever win a Superbowl. He does have some injuries in the past but the moment he loses half a step his effectiveness as a runner goes down and allows Defenses to not have to crowd the line. He has never had elite arm strength and while he has improved as a passer the amount of throws he makes to players with 3 yards of seperation is insane. He may only have 5-6 more years of elite play left

I actually don’t think Lamar has a playoff problem anymore.  I think the Ravens do.

 

I truly believe what gives the Chiefs an edge every year is they never play to prove anything to anyone.  When Tyreek left and the national media said their passing game might have died, Mahomes wasn’t trying to pass for 400 yards to prove people wrong.  When the world thought Kelce might be washed they didn’t get him a 200 yard game to prove a point they use him when needed.

 

The Bills have FINALLY adopted this way of thinking.  In the past I believe the legacy of Josh depended on Josh throwing on his cape every game.  But the Bills didn’t leave Josh in too long in games or funnel TDs his way to prove he’s the MVP.  They just played bills football and kept winning.

 

The Ravens have seemingly always listened to the national media WAY too much and in turn let it dictate their play.  Lamar was throwing in the 4th quarter of blowouts to prove he was worthy of an MVP.  The last two times the Ravens were eliminated from the playoffs they came into the game with the top rushing attack in the league and then put the ball in Lamar’s hands to prove he was an elite passer.  If the Ravens just stuck to their running game last year they likely would have beaten the Chiefs.  And if they just kept using Henry & Hill against the Bills I hate to say it but they probably win.

 

But the Ravens want to prove he’s that guy.  So they abandon their strength during the biggest times in the biggest spots to prove a point.

 

Meanwhile every year Mahomes throws for relatively average numbers and strolls his way into a Super Bowl every year with those numbers.  While the national media questions if Burrow is the new goat, or Allen, or Lamar…the WHOLE time Mahomes is casually posting pedestrian numbers and winning SBs.  While everyone else tries to prove their worth he adds to his trophy case.

 

The Bills have seemingly adopted this approach and I think it’s what gets us to take the next step this year.

[C.Biscuit97]

Besides being a rival, it was always idiotic to hate on Lamar. The MVP conversations has melted down fans’ brains. The best part is Lamar and Allen care so much less than fans. It’s kinda weird how much some people care about another man winning an individual award. 

[GaryPinC]

On 1/21/2025 at 7:46 AM, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

I think Lamar is overrated in the sense that he’s not on the level of the big 3 (Allen, Burrow, Mahomes.) He is right on the fringes though and well worth the money they paid him which was very controversial at the time. I don’t think he will be playing at a high level into his mid-late 30s like the current top guys. He’s just too overly reliant on his athleticism. Allen can run it with the best of them and it certainly opens things up, but he’s more reliant on power than pure speed, and he can do things w his arm that no one else can. His athleticism was a complete afterthought during the draft process. Lamar needs an offense tailored to his skill set whereas Allen will thrive in pretty much any system. I am 100% positive all 32 GMs would take Josh over Lamar 

Two years ago I  would have agreed with you, but Lamar has really improved his vision and passing since then.  He's drastically improved his decision making.  Him and Josh have taken those final steps to being complete QB's and both will strive for continuing improvement.

 

We're really privileged to have 3-4 great quarterbacks squaring off against each other in the AFC (my fourth is Burrow).  Epic playoff games now and in the coming years!

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

Two years ago I  would have agreed with you, but Lamar has really improved his vision and passing since then.  He's drastically improved his decision making.  Him and Josh have taken those final steps to being complete QB's and both will strive for continuing improvement.

 

We're really privileged to have 3-4 great quarterbacks squaring off against each other in the AFC (my fourth is Burrow).  Epic playoff games now and in the coming years!

Lamar through 2023 was a great talent lacking some recognition and target selection.  Lamar 2024 was complete.  He’s really on that elite level IMO.  I think Burrow is behind the other 3 because he is a bit of a douche and because of injury concerns, but that’s just me.  He isn’t a throwaway that’s for sure.  There are some other guys like Daniels that are too young to judge whether they can sustain but sure look promising.  The sand is running through Herbert and Lawrence’s hourglasses.

[Low Positive]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lamar through 2023 was a great talent lacking some recognition and target selection.  Lamar 2024 was complete.  He’s really on that elite level IMO.  I think Burrow is behind the other 3 because he is a bit of a douche and because of injury concerns, but that’s just me.  He isn’t a throwaway that’s for sure.  There are some other guys like Daniels that are too young to judge whether they can sustain but sure look promising.  The sand is running through Herbert and Lawrence’s hourglasses.

We're in the golden age of quarterbacking. 

[WideNine]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Besides being a rival, it was always idiotic to hate on Lamar. The MVP conversations has melted down fans’ brains. The best part is Lamar and Allen care so much less than fans. It’s kinda weird how much some people care about another man winning an individual award. 

 

This.

 

Lamar is a great QB and had a great season full stop.

 

I am certain that both he and Allen would rather hoist the Lombardi than win some MVP award.

 

Seems too much like an empty consolation prize and media popularity thing than anything meaningful.

 

 

 

 

[UKBillFan]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Besides being a rival, it was always idiotic to hate on Lamar. The MVP conversations has melted down fans’ brains. The best part is Lamar and Allen care so much less than fans. It’s kinda weird how much some people care about another man winning an individual award. 

 

I think it's less hate on Lamar and how he seems to be treated differently to Josh. Excuses made, less criticism, criteria changes for MVP etc. It's on the media rather than Lamar as a QB.

[GaryPinC]

6 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

I think it's less hate on Lamar and how he seems to be treated differently to Josh. Excuses made, less criticism, criteria changes for MVP etc. It's on the media rather than Lamar as a QB.

I think Josh is/was treated differently because before last year, in his quest to be Superman, he made a lot of dumb plays alongside the great ones.  Forcing the ball into coverage rather than a wide open underneath route, sacrificing his body to pick up yards on a second down run in the middle of a routine game.

 

Critics are going to be harder on Josh making mistakes  playing the game the wrong way vs Lamar's mistakes while playing the game the right way.  

Especially as everyone could see the greatness in Josh.

 

As Josh's changes prove permanent over time the critics are coming around and will continue to.

[machine gun kelly]

On 1/19/2025 at 9:47 PM, Saint Doug said:

He definitely not a sore loser. Had a huge smile on when he embraced Josh at the end of the game. Good for him. 

I thought he showed real class telling Josh to get hardware (both the SB and MVP).  I can only hope Josh would say something similar to Lamar of the roles were reversed.

[Scott7975]

On 1/21/2025 at 1:08 AM, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I, a frequent Josh defender, thought Josh played pretty meh and he WON the game lol. I would be livid if he did what Lamar did and wishing he played more like Josh 😂

 

Brady/mcd are taking some heat that Josh deserves imo.  That missed throw to Kincaid and the TE screen audible killed half our drives in the second half but I keep reading the coaching staff neutered him or something…can’t really understand it 
 

hes the best player in the league imo but he wasn’t great in this one,didn’t actively hurt the team but didn’t help a ton either.  I do think he pulls off the late fg drive to win it if he had to though.  
 

Lamar actively hurt his team.  Fluky bad snap fumble?  He was dancing around before securing the football trying to make a play happen… that was 1000% on him.  Had a pass tipped on a huge 2 point conversion, got stuffed in a goal to go situation.  He also basically threw another deep ball right at a safety and got away with it because Hamlin misjudged it so bad on top of all the other stuff…I probably could’ve jumped down from the 300 level and caught that pick while the ball was in the air 😂. not sure what Hamlin was doing on that one…looked like he was standing still lining up the pick then it went right over his head at the last second 

 

The TE screen audible was the right call. It was executed poorly.

[C.Biscuit97]

12 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 

I think it's less hate on Lamar and how he seems to be treated differently to Josh. Excuses made, less criticism, criteria changes for MVP etc. It's on the media rather than Lamar as a QB.

Lamar won the Heisman trophy and morons talked about him switching positions. He gets called a rb all the time.  He has gotten killed for his playoff performances. 
 

if you think Lamar doesn’t get a ton of criticism, you aren’t paying attention. 

5 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

I think Josh is/was treated differently because before last year, in his quest to be Superman, he made a lot of dumb plays alongside the great ones.  Forcing the ball into coverage rather than a wide open underneath route, sacrificing his body to pick up yards on a second down run in the middle of a routine game.

 

Critics are going to be harder on Josh making mistakes  playing the game the wrong way vs Lamar's mistakes while playing the game the right way.  

Especially as everyone could see the greatness in Josh.

 

As Josh's changes prove permanent over time the critics are coming around and will continue to.

Both Allen and Jackson have taken a ton of criticism. That’s why I like both. They don’t whine about MVPs or people criticizing them. They just work hard and get better every year. 

[UKBillFan]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Lamar won the Heisman trophy and morons talked about him switching positions. He gets called a rb all the time.  He has gotten killed for his playoff performances. 
 

if you think Lamar doesn’t get a ton of criticism, you aren’t paying attention. 

Both Allen and Jackson have taken a ton of criticism. That’s why I like both. They don’t whine about MVPs or people criticizing them. They just work hard and get better every year. 

 

He should have been criticised more than he has been for this year's performance. It was a single game example of Josh's regular 2023 season - balled out but with costly turnovers. He was shredded for that but most fingers are being pointed solely at Andrews. I'm sure not all of Josh's turnovers in 2023 were his fault (alone) but very different story there.

 

I agree, Lamar got a lot of unfair criticism at the start of his career but, over the last couple of years, they've gone too far the other way in defending him. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Lamar won the Heisman trophy and morons talked about him switching positions. He gets called a rb all the time.  He has gotten killed for his playoff performances. 
 

if you think Lamar doesn’t get a ton of criticism, you aren’t paying attention. 

Both Allen and Jackson have taken a ton of criticism. That’s why I like both. They don’t whine about MVPs or people criticizing them. They just work hard and get better every year. 

 

All of that is true but trying to make it make sense from a fan perspective that Lamar might soon be a 3x league MVP and Allen 0x MVP is troubling. We can all make very strong cases that Allen should have been MVP last year or this year. For Allen to potentially have zero and Lamar 3 is pretty wild. 

 

Both have taken heavy criticism but the most prestigious accolades have all gone heavily to to Lamar. Probably the one true accolade that Allen has over Lamar is the general consensus that Allen is the 2nd best QB in the league to Mahomes year in and year out. But they don't give out any hardware for that designation unfortunately.

 

These things matter in legacy considerations 20 years down the road too. For all we know, neither QB may ever win a Super Bowl. People will look back and see one QB has like 3+ MVP's and the other has 1 or none. 

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

 

He should have been criticised more than he has been for this year's performance. It was a single game example of Josh's regular 2023 season - balled out but with costly turnovers. He was shredded for that but most fingers are being pointed solely at Andrews. I'm sure not all of Josh's turnovers in 2023 were his fault (alone) but very different story there.

 

I agree, Lamar got a lot of unfair criticism at the start of his career but, over the last couple of years, they've gone too far the other way in defending him. 

Eh, it was a freezing cold game and they were in position to tie the game. But obviously, he wasn’t perfect. But it was a gutless effort. 
 

I also do think people overlook how much conditions play in qb play. It’s one thing in a dome. But it must have sucked for a Florida dude. It’s why I had no doubts we were going to win. 

5 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

All of that is true but trying to make it make sense from a fan perspective that Lamar might soon be a 3x league MVP and Allen 0x MVP is troubling. We can all make very strong cases that Allen should have been MVP last year or this year. For Allen to potentially have zero and Lamar 3 is pretty wild. 

 

Both have taken heavy criticism but the most prestigious accolades have all gone heavily to to Lamar. Probably the one true accolade that Allen has over Lamar is the general consensus that Allen is the 2nd best QB in the league to Mahomes year in and year out. But they don't give out any hardware for that designation unfortunately.

 

These things matter in legacy considerations 20 years down the road too. For all we know, neither QB may ever win a Super Bowl. People will look back and see one QB has like 3+ MVP's and the other has 1 or none. 

Allen is going to win the MVP because Lamar isn’t winning 3. It’s a storyline award. Best qb from the best team or guy who picks up his team the most (you have to talk about how awful the rest of your team is). 
 

and I still haven’t heard a good reason why Daniels isn’t one of the top mvp candidates? The second worst team in the nfl last year is in the championship game. 
 

also, Allen is getting paid a ton and is in a ton of commercials. He gets a ton of prestige. 

Edited Friday at 04:21 PM by C.Biscuit97

[ddaryl]

Lamar has surprised me. The 2 most unhearlded QB ever drafted in the 1st round go on to be the 2 best QB drafted that year in the 1st rd

I love that Josh and Lamar think highly of each other, that adds an extra bit of respect for Lamar from me

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh, it was a freezing cold game and they were in position to tie the game. But obviously, he wasn’t perfect. But it was a gutless effort. 
 

I also do think people overlook how much conditions play in qb play. It’s one thing in a dome. But it must have sucked for a Florida dude. It’s why I had no doubts we were going to win. 

Allen is going to win the MVP because Lamar isn’t winning 3. It’s a storyline award. Best qb from the best team or guy who picks up his team the most (you have to talk about how awful the rest of your team is). 
 

and I still haven’t heard a good reason why Daniels isn’t one of the top mvp candidates? The second worst team in the nfl last year is in the championship game. 
 

also, Allen is getting paid a ton and is in a ton of commercials. He gets a ton of prestige. 

Will Levi’s is in a mayo commercial. I don’t think commercials are an indicator of lasting legacy 20 years after retirement. 
 

I hope you are right about the MVP vote and many of the voters stick with their voting criteria from last season. 
 

I never thought Allen would be first team all pro this year and even thought Burrow would get more second team votes than he did. So to me it was odd when the Vegas odds changed so much based on an all pro award I always figured Lamar would win.

 

Lamar absolutely should not have been 1st team all pro last year with his stats. Should have gone to any one of Dak, Purdy or Allen before Lamar.

[Returntoglory]

Great QB and seems like a genuinely likeable guy.

[WideNine]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Eh, it was a freezing cold game and they were in position to tie the game. But obviously, he wasn’t perfect. But it was a gutless effort. 
 

I also do think people overlook how much conditions play in qb play. It’s one thing in a dome. But it must have sucked for a Florida dude. It’s why I had no doubts we were going to win. 

Allen is going to win the MVP because Lamar isn’t winning 3. It’s a storyline award. Best qb from the best team or guy who picks up his team the most (you have to talk about how awful the rest of your team is). 
 

and I still haven’t heard a good reason why Daniels isn’t one of the top mvp candidates? The second worst team in the nfl last year is in the championship game. 
 

also, Allen is getting paid a ton and is in a ton of commercials. He gets a ton of prestige. 

If Allen gets it, it would simply be those voters finally recognizing the volume of work he has done since he has been in the league without ever receiving that MVP recognition - just my opinion on how those voters may justify where they go with it. If Lamar got it, it would be recognizing the numbers he put up this year.

Daniels has done an amazing job with the Commanders - never saw that coming and kind of glad he is in the NFC as the kid seems to have a ton of talent and I don't think anyone has quite figured out how to limit what he is able to do. Seemed like there was a bit of a drought on great new QB talent till the "class of" Mahomes, Lamar, and Burrows arrived - but now there are quite a few youngsters flashing real potential.

Perhaps FO personnel had a reset and recognized the traits that QBs need to have to have more success facing modern NFL defenses, mostly gone is the pure pocket passer. What teams need is that guy that can operate at a high level both on or off schedule, use their legs to extend plays, move the chains, and mitigate the pass rush. Burrow does not strike me as exactly fitting that mold, but he is highly accurate and can get the ball out in a hurry when needed (and has had the benefit of working with the same top tier receiver since college).

Because Burrow is a bit less mobile, I think he gets injured a lot more than the others as it is easier to put a target on where he will be when rushed. I recall when the Jags went with Lawrence, and he was touted as a "no brainer" even on this board as he was such a prototypical QB checking all the boxes that personnel folks normally focus on when he came into the league.

What do we think now? He is a giraffe back there, not exactly quick-twitch when moving around, and seems to have an exaggerated throwing motion. All these traits are things defenses can exploit, and he has been getting smoked. A bit off track, but all this talk got me thinking about what makes a great QB these days.

Jim Brown was the only rookie ever to win the NFL MVP in 1957 so for all intents and purposes it is not going to happen, but I could see Daniels getting some votes.

 

Edited Friday at 09:19 PM by WideNine