Lamar Jackson - Popular Opinion

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

4 hours ago, VW82 said:

Give him his flowers. He outplayed Josh in the biggest game of the season and lost. 

If they didn’t throw one pass that game they probably had a better shot than what Lamar did…Josh was only ‘outplayed’ because the bills were playing conservative with a lead due to some horrible Lamar mistakes. 
 

and if Andrews catches that 2 pointer, Josh probably drives down and wins the game.  People makin it sound like Andrews dropped a walkoff win lol it’s ridiculous.  
 

couple that with Lamar was going up against an ok bills defense with a bad matchup and Josh was going against a ravens defense that was playing real well in recent history 

Edited 22 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Well, it was "we".  Lamar & Andrews.  😄

No.. screw the andrews drop.. IF Lamar did not fumble the ball.. thats a different game same goes for his int.. though we did not score points on it we should have..

Lamar choaked... again.. its a Lamar issue

 

[ghostwriter]

4 hours ago, Chugga said:

I’ve been holding onto this all season.  But I like Lamar.  I love the way he plays.  I don’t think he should have won the MVP last year and don’t think he should this year.  I also don’t think he’s on the same tier as Josh (and Pat).  But he seems like a cool dude and unfortunately due to circumstances Ravens/Bills fans are forced to fight.

 

Even his quote from the other day saying he isn’t friends with QBs he wants to win (I kinda want my QB to have that old school mentality).  Sucks that the playoff choker narrative will stick to him.  But I’d rather it be on him than Josh.

 

Hats off to the Ravens, I’ve been confident, but their run game has scared me all week.

 

Go Bills

I think that in the uppermost echelon of QBs you have Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson.

 

Underneath them you probably have Joe Burrow, CJ Stroud, Jayden Daniels, Justin Herbert, Jared Goff and Matt Stafford etc..

 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by ghostwriter

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, ghostwriter said:

I think that in the uppermost echelon of QBs you have Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson.

 

Underneath them you probably have Joe Burrow, CJ Stroud, Jayden Daniels, Justin Herbert, Jared Goff and Matt Stafford etc..

 

 

I just can’t put Lamar there until he’s not a net negative in a huge playoff game.  Love the guy and maybe it’s bad luck/small sample size but it is what it is 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Doc Brown]

29 minutes ago, ghostwriter said:

I think that in the uppermost echelon of QBs you have Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes and Lamar Jackson.

 

Underneath them you probably have Joe Burrow, CJ Stroud, Jayden Daniels, Justin Herbert, Jared Goff and Matt Stafford etc..

 

 

Burrow is in the top 4 imo.  After that there's a drop off.

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 hours ago, Virgil said:

Ravens and Lamar are way better than j gave them credit for.  Props to them.  We are lucky to escape with a win?

No luck at all. Bills were just better.

 

"...The play (Bernard's Peanut Punch) was part of an opportunistic day for the Bills defense, which forced three takeaways against an offense that had just 11 in the regular season."

 

The Bills D knew what they were doing AND how to do it!

[BobbyC81]

Lamar can have another MVP trophy.  Josh can cheer for him in the audience when he takes a break from preparing for the Super Bowl.  😉

 

By the way, how many Super Bowls has that 2 time MVP played in?

[colin]

some good points about the culture war issues w lamar in this thread.

 

the thing for me (the football thing, there are culture war/race/whatever issues in sports media, but sports media is oddly politically charged and shockingly shockingly dumb so I'll ignore it here) is that the big rub for those of us who think josh was mvp over lamar, and that lamar was sort of gifted his prior MVPs is that lamar plays qb on easy mode, and josh plays qb on hard mode on the ice level of the game (those are always frustrating).

 

lamar (for most of his career, but let's just focus on this season) has a silly level of talent around him on his team.  their d fell off early but ended on a strong note.  their secondary has a soft spot in it, but the rest of it is crazy (top guys in humphries, and a legit positional mutant in hamilton).  their LBs are really really good, and smith in the middle is around the best in the nfl (they traded high value picks for him considering he's an off ball lb, and aj klien, LOL).  their DL are a deep squad of monsters, and they got KVN to be an edge monster late in his career, oweh has not produced sacks like they wanted, but he's a size weight speed freak (i know those guys are "lbs", but they really are DL in my opinion) and really the mix of talent they have up front is a crazy match up for everyone.  On O they get solid play from their OL (big strong and dirty but the refs barely ever seem to call them, how did they not get holding flags in that barn burner of a game?), have very solid TE talent, hall of fame RB with a back up RB who is a dangerous guy, and their mix of WRs (flowers being out hurt them this season) who have enough speed and shiftiness to scare you.

 

Their kicker is literally the best of all time for his career, and they always seem to return and cover well.

 

Their coach is a champion and while their DC is a rookie, they never seem to have too many unproven coordinators or position coaches.

 

the ravens really are the monster team who are built to win tough physical games, the less stuff get called the better it should be for them.  when you hear ex nfl players talk about who they played with, the crazy men who scared people with their strength of speed, the guys who were grown man size at 16 and always dominated, and the nasty rough confident guys are always the ones they talk about most.  fan favorite plucky freddie jackson guys who went no where for school and just somehow got it done besides being maybe undertalented never get the good stories.  that's not who always win championships, but that's who you'd instinctively see as the biggest threats.  that's the ravens top to bottom, they draft based on size speed and temperament, their "process" is about getting as many scary monsters on the field as they can.

 

Lamar is like that a little bit at QB.  he's small and not a fast processer, and doesn't have the tightest fundamentals, but he's super confident, the fastest and most athletic guy to play qb since vick, and a heisman winner to boot.

 

the ravens coaches have engineered a system where they have their team playing advantage football.  the vicious hard hitting way they play (reminds me of the 2012 era seattle team, they foul on like every play but only get called sometimes), the speed and size they have all over the field (300 pound mutant fullback, fast guys outside and at qb, and rb, 6'4" and fast safety, no team looks like them!) is hard to deal with at all times.  when you see the ravens line up, and you see the bills line up, you really think the ravens should beat the bills to a pulp and in every way except turnovers and the score just like they did last night.

 

qb's get credit for the whole team, so it's natural the sports media lauds qbs based on great coaching and well built teams.  lamar has what is almost certainly 3 mvps while only having 3 playoff wins and not one solid playoff campaign to hang his hat on (this one was his best ever, and his mistakes cost his much more talented team the win today).  he's obviously much better than most nfl qb's, but if playoffs and championships is what matters, he's simply not had success in the post season and he doesn't have the allen narrative (itself being something that many in the media hate about allen, because their preferred narrative is that he's a disaster in waiting who will play basically how lamar played today) of balling out and being the best player in the playoffs despite his team losing.

 

im pretty confident to say that if allen were on the ravens, and lamar was a bill, they'd both have success and playoff appearances and division wins, but allen would have some chips w baltimore and this board would talk about how we need a player more like josh allen who play better when the stakes are higher.  that's why so many of us discount the lamar mvps and think josh should have some.

 

in the end it's hard to really establish who the best or better or more clutch player is in a team sport, but narratives capture interest more than complex analysis, and the narratives on both lamar and josh are so overdone and charged up and interesting that mud is gonna get thrown no matter what happens. 

[UKBillFan]

Lamar is a great QB. He did haul them back into the game yesterday but, other than a couple of great plays, that was mainly due to McDermott doing his classic approach of going conservative too early on both sides of the ball. And two of his plays but them behind the sticks in the first place, with the flutter pass interception and fumble.

 

What grates me is the media narrative. With Josh, those two plays would have him being called out as gifting two many turnovers, his mistakes were key to the defeat, yet again Sugar High Josh appeared. I have no interest in looking at the Ravens forum but, whilst I'm sure they're still very supportive of Lamar and rightly so, I'd guess they're far more critical of the turnovers than the national media are. It seems to be one rule for one, one rule for the other. I called him Teflon man on another thread, and that feeds into me perhaps being more critical of Lamar than I should be.

[The Jokeman]

42 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

Lamar can have another MVP trophy.  Josh can cheer for him in the audience when he takes a break from preparing for the Super Bowl.  😉

 

By the way, how many Super Bowls has that 2 time MVP played in?

How many Conference championships has he been in? 

[I'mBuff]

9 hours ago, Chugga said:

I think due to the MVP race and the medias attempt to make it bills vs ravens fans for the last 5-8 weeks I think generally speaking there is a lot of hatred for lamar and certainly a downplaying of his skills to lessen his credibility as the MVP.  I think if Lamar won the game the board would have been filled with “how did we lose to a RB at QB posts”.

 

So yeah I do think it doesn’t jive with the majority of opinions.

His passing game has shown great improvement, of course so has his offensive line. A lot of his throws are to wide open players, and also after 5-8 seconds, which is attributed to one, his offensive line and two, his ability to extend plays. He’s grown into as good a quarterback as he is a runner. He’s a top qb for sure. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Yeah, Lamar and his friends in the media can all go choke like dogs for all the mouth running they did all week.

 

Stephen A

 

Shannon Sharpe 

 

Get Up

 

Joy Under the Table Taylor

 

Domonique Foxworth

 

Chris Broussard

 

Mina Kimes

 

Damien Woody 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LarryMadman]

Lamars game isnt that good, he needs a super team around him to be successful and ultimatly that isnt working either. He's not nearly the QB Pat, Joe or Josh are, enough Lamar ball washing, so sick of it! 

[Sweats]

10 hours ago, pigpen65 said:

He's the reason they lost. 

 

 

 

He's the reason they almost made the perfect comeback and only coming within a 2 point conversion for the tie.

[UKBillFan]

12 minutes ago, Sweats said:

 

 

 

He's the reason they almost made the perfect comeback and only coming within a 2 point conversion for the tie.

 

He's the reason they needed the perfect comeback in the first place. And Josh wouldn't have been allowed to forget it.

[Strethor]

The AFC is a three headed monster of rock paper scissors. With such powerhouses there also is a level of luck involved - a few lucky bounces does not make Lamar or Allen or Burrow any lesser.. They all have the challenges with contesting against top talent and a dynasty. 

 

[BRH]

Pry this narrative out of their cold dead hands.

 

"Had adversity" is some kind of way of saying "gave the ball to the other team twice."

 

[JP51]

6 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

If they didn’t throw one pass that game they probably had a better shot than what Lamar did…Josh was only ‘outplayed’ because the bills were playing conservative with a lead due to some horrible Lamar mistakes. 
 

and if Andrews catches that 2 pointer, Josh probably drives down and wins the game.  People makin it sound like Andrews dropped a walkoff win lol it’s ridiculous.  
 

couple that with Lamar was going up against an ok bills defense with a bad matchup and Josh was going against a ravens defense that was playing real well in recent history 

I think if you throw out the int and the fumble he may have outplayed him a bit but honestly how do you just throw that out? 

[Rigotz]

Seems like a good dude. I like him.

 

The thing that kills me is the national media and player narratives surrounding him.
 

They all WANT him to be the best player in the league because he’s electric to watch and he is aligned with the upbringing and race of the majority of the non-QB league. Moreso than Mahomes, Russel Wilson, etc. There are definite “one of us” vibes happening.

 

I wish it wasn’t part of the conversation, but it is.

[Irv]

Jackson is MVP of turnovers.  He was the Bills MVP last night.  Have fun golfing.