Terry Tate Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Indeed. Although I might buy some porn soon! Just kidding, thats what I have the internet for. 369292[/snapback] Hope you're not breaking any copyright restrictions there, sonny jim.
Chilly Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Hope you're not breaking any copyright restrictions there, sonny jim. 369315[/snapback] Cawpyright? Wuts a cawpyright?
ieatcrayonz Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Cawpyright? Wuts a cawpyright? 369342[/snapback] Just make sure you have the proper papers verifying the actors are over 18 years of age. (14 years old in Georgia and Mississippi)
UConn James Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 The irony is, the Supreme Court displays the Ten Commandments. (Though they do it in the context of "the history of law"...in which case they can display all of Leviticus for all I care. The Ten Commandments as a historical legal document is a perfectly valid context). 369267[/snapback] They made a special exemption for themselves and displays like it. Pro'ly don't want those simple prole construction workers in their chambers. The last time the Ten Commandments were codified "law" was when Moses came down from the mountain after inscribing them. When were they ever the law in this country? I point directly at the quote from Thomas Jefferson I gave above. Maybe there's a basis or the few obvious big ones like "thou shalt not kill" -- hardly the intellectual property of the Bible -- that are in common with our laws, but they are entirely different in breadth and depth. Why don't they display the Code of Hammurabi then? How about displaying our own laws on the walls? Seems that the people who got behind bars weren't very familiar with them....
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 The last time the Ten Commandments were codified "law" was when Moses came down from the mountain after inscribing them. When were they ever the law in this country?369463[/snapback] When were Sun Dynastic or Athenian law ever applicable in this country either? And yet they have sculptures of Confucius and a scene from the Iliad (the trial on Achilles' shield) on display as well. Guess we should get rid of those, too, since we're neither Buddhist nor Greek. Ditto the sculptures representing Justinian, the Roman praetorate, Julian, the Magna Carta, and the first Statute of Westminster. Because in your narrow little mind an American historical display about the law should begin and end with the Constitution.
UConn James Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 When were Sun Dynastic or Athenian law ever applicable in this country either? And yet they have sculptures of Confucius and a scene from the Iliad (the trial on Achilles' shield) on display as well. Guess we should get rid of those, too, since we're neither Buddhist nor Greek. Ditto the sculptures representing Justinian, the Roman praetorate, Julian, the Magna Carta, and the first Statute of Westminster. Because in your narrow little mind an American historical display about the law should begin and end with the Constitution. 369490[/snapback] You're talking about sculprtures/busts of people compared to words? The examples have a much stronger tie with historic governmental process than any organized religion --- when you think of Justinian, you think Rome --> Constantinople, not "polytheism." The Magna Carta is a legal document outlining the powers of the king. A document that starts out with "Thou shalt have no other God before me" is religious in nature. And why such a display needs to be 15 feet high granite slabs in 140-point text...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 You're talking about sculprtures/busts of people compared to words? The examples have a much stronger tie with historic governmental process than any organized religion --- when you think of Justinian, you think Rome --> Constantinople, not "polytheism." The Magna Carta is a legal document outlining the powers of the king. A document that starts out with "Thou shalt have no other God before me" is religious in nature. And why such a display needs to be 15 feet high granite slabs in 140-point text... 369519[/snapback] Whatever. You're right. Let's just have the Supreme Court ignore the ENTIRE history of law. It's the right thing to do.
Buffal0 Bill5 Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 A quote from Thomas Jefferson, which runs contrary to what some people claim of the Founding Fathers: "“Christianity neither is, nor ever was part of the common law.” 369188[/snapback] Could you please provide documentation of this quote in it's context? Not that I doubt your word, but the overwhelming evidence in historical documentation is that the founding fathers were "Christian" men, Thomas Jefferson himself was, if not a Christian, was a Theist who at a minimum believed that God existed and had a role to play in the life of our nation. Where are his objections to the religious language in our early historical documents? If you do not like the fact that the United States was founded by a group of Christian people, that is fine, but examine the totality of their quotes and writings, and do not try to turn them into atheists or agnostics. The evidence of history supports the idea that the United States was formed as a Christian nation. Why do the Supreme court justices sit beneath a carving of Moses? Why has the phrase "In God we trust" been on our money for as long as any of us can remember? Why in our courts do we put our hands on the Bible? Why are our presidents sworn in on a Bible, (Incidentally, the same Bible Geo. Washington used)? Why do they pray to open congress? Why do "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain in inalienable rights"? Why did we have those ten commandments monuments in the first place? I have visited many sites that proclaim that our founding fathers were not "Christians" and give historical quotes to prove their point. Most of these quotes are taken out of context. As members of churches, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, etc. criticized the religious establisment of the day. What these sites fail to consider is the many historically documented statements of belief of these men. Consider Benjamin Franklin's epitaph, penned by his own hand... "THE BODY of BENJAMIN FRANKLIN Printer Like the cover of an old book, Its contents torn out, And stripped of its lettering and gilding Lies here, food for worms; Yet the work itself shall not be lost, For it will (as he believed) appear once more, In a new, And more beautiful edition, Corrected and amended By the AUTHOR"
UConn James Posted June 28, 2005 Posted June 28, 2005 Could you please provide documentation of this quote in it's context? Not that I doubt your word, but the overwhelming evidence in historical documentation is that the founding fathers were "Christian" men, Thomas Jefferson himself was, if not a Christian, was a Theist who at a minimum believed that God existed and had a role to play in the life of our nation. Where are his objections to the religious language in our early historical documents? If you do not like the fact that the United States was founded by a group of Christian people, that is fine, but examine the totality of their quotes and writings, and do not try to turn them into atheists or agnostics. The evidence of history supports the idea that the United States was formed as a Christian nation. Why do the Supreme court justices sit beneath a carving of Moses? Why has the phrase "In God we trust" been on our money for as long as any of us can remember? Why in our courts do we put our hands on the Bible? Why are our presidents sworn in on a Bible, (Incidentally, the same Bible Geo. Washington used)? Why do they pray to open congress? Why do "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain in inalienable rights"? Why did we have those ten commandments monuments in the first place? I have visited many sites that proclaim that our founding fathers were not "Christians" and give historical quotes to prove their point. Most of these quotes are taken out of context. As members of churches, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, etc. criticized the religious establisment of the day. What these sites fail to consider is the many historically documented statements of belief of these men. Consider Benjamin Franklin's epitaph, penned by his own hand... "THE BODY of BENJAMIN FRANKLIN Printer Like the cover of an old book, Its contents torn out, And stripped of its lettering and gilding Lies here, food for worms; Yet the work itself shall not be lost, For it will (as he believed) appear once more, In a new, And more beautiful edition, Corrected and amended By the AUTHOR" 369646[/snapback] It goes into the "Seperation of church and state." They wanted a country based on the rule of law rather than a rule by the Bible. People are free to believe as they wish on their own time. I look at it much the same as I view the health care situation: if you want it, you can go pick a supplier of it, you don't show up at the Congress building to get a Band-Aid. I'm not stopping them from going to church or posting them in their own space. Hell, I'll give them directions. The things you listed are optional. There is no requirement to take oaths in court with the Bible -- most, if not all, courthouses don't do this. And all along, someone could refuse to, and also simply say, "so help me." Likewise, the President does not have to take the oath of office on a Bible, that is his choice, and it's his own Bible that he provides service of (it's not the George Washington Bible); it's not a gov't-owned Bible. "In God We Trust" and the one in the Pledge have been ruled to be generalized terms, altho the logic of that is beyond me. To make it a requirement that all people must pass under a 15-foot momument is to tacitly imply that everyone is Judeo-Christian, which is not the case.
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