Our 1st Title team: 1964 Buffalo Bills

[Chandler#81]

We played a far different style of football than our pass happy, no Defense AFL brethren. Much more modeled as a NFL team at the time, with a ferocious Defense and power running Offense. At one stage in the mid 60’s, we went 17 straight games without surrendering a 100 yard runner. Still, we were underdogs at home in the Title game to the point-a-minute, high flying circus of the San Diego Chargers who had been the Darlings of the new League. Here is a trip back for you oldtimers as we currently seek another shot at a Title.

 

 

 

[Rhode Island Red]

Advancing in age, it’s somehow refreshing to see this ‘raw footage’…and I’m speaking of the second vid, ‘cuz the first one is seemingly just this very earnest dweeb mispronouncing ‘DooBeneeon’ and ‘Seeestak’…. No video that I saw… Had to turn him off in short order, in spite of the fact I enjoyed hearing the names, and the story of Buster Ramsey, and then Lou Saban…

[Low Positive]

I'm way too young to remember any of this (51), but I have a few questions for you old dudes.

 

1) Why did the AFL refs wear capri pants?

2) How would the Bills have fared against the 1964 NFL champ Browns in a theoretical Super Bowl? 

3) How cool would it have been if we had played in SB 1, which was a distinct possibility?

Edited January 15 by Low Positive

[Dan Darragh]

Forgot that Cookie was #34.  For years I've remembered him as #32 but apparently he never wore that number.

 

Amazing to watch those films and to realize that almost all of those guys are dead.

[RangerDave]

The only team in my lifetime that I have rooted for that has ever won a championship... and I was one year old (and then 2 years old the next year).

[sherpa]

6 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I'm way too young to remember any of this (51), but I have a few questions for you old dudes.

3) How cool would it have been if we had played in SB 1, which was a distinct possibility?

 

I'll take a shot at that one, as I was around then, and very attentive.

I was quite sure they would have been handily defeated.

The BIlls had started to decline at that point, and Kansas City was ascending.

The Chiefs had more talent and were far more creative on offense, and Otis Taylor was very much a threat to any NFL team.

 

I thought the Packers would have killed the Bills, who were far better in '65.

[Chandler#81]

40 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I'll take a shot at that one, as I was around then, and very attentive.

I was quite sure they would have been handily defeated.

The BIlls had started to decline at that point, and Kansas City was ascending.

The Chiefs had more talent and were far more creative on offense, and Otis Taylor was very much a threat to any NFL team.

 

I thought the Packers would have killed the Bills, who were far better in '65.

Oh, my dear weathered friend. I completely disagree. ‘64 was our absolute pinnacle. Much more so than the ensuing 2 seasons where we still made the title game again, winning back to back titles in ‘65. The Browns won the NFL title and Jim Brown was at his zenith. But nobody in the NFL had a defense who could compare with ours. Again, we didn’t allow anyone to rush for a 100 yards. If EVER there was year we would have easily won a still unthought of Super Bowl, this was the year. Green Bay played Cleveland in another title game and held Brown to 50 yards rushing. 

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Oh, my dear weathered friend. I completely disagree. ‘64 was our absolute pinnacle. Much more so than the ensuing 2 seasons where we still made the title game again, winning back to back titles in ‘65. The Browns won the NFL title and Jim Brown was at his zenith. But nobody in the NFL had a defense who could compare with ours. Again, we didn’t allow anyone to rush for a 100 yards. If EVER there was year we would have easily won a still unthought of Super Bowl, this was the year. Green Bay played Cleveland in another title game and held Brown to 50 yards rushing. 

 

Weathered enough to have seen the Stratton hit on Keith Lincoln in the 64 championship, when we were behind and they were moving the ball successfully again, at that game changing point.

I think the 65 team was a bit better.

On the stat thing, we had a dominant defense as you pointed out, with freakish continuity, but we did not face NFL offenses which were better than AFL ones.

Again, I think we were on the downside at the end of 66, and were killed on our home field by the Chiefs.

Specifically, I think  Kemp was on the downside, Gilchrist was gone and Joe Collier was the head coach.

I think a matchup against the Packers at that time would have had a "sub optimal outcome." and the Chiefs were much better at that point.

Edited January 15 by sherpa

[US Egg]

Was 1st grade Yankees fan, football was a bit foreign still but it was a great introduction and took out the sting of the Yankees losing the World Series. 

 

[WotAGuy]

The 17-game streak was actually for not allowing a rushing TD and went 16 games in 64 and another in 65. The Bills did set an AFL record for fewest rushing yards allowed at about 65 YPG in 64. 

[JP51]

13 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

We played a far different style of football than our pass happy, no Defense AFL brethren. Much more modeled as a NFL team at the time, with a ferocious Defense and power running Offense. At one stage in the mid 60’s, we went 17 straight games without surrendering a 100 yard runner. Still, we were underdogs at home in the Title game to the point-a-minute, high flying circus of the San Diego Chargers who had been the Darlings of the new League. Here is a trip back for you oldtimers as we currently seek another shot at a Title.

 

 

 

That was awesome... amazing guys didnt go out of bounds and QBs didnt slide back then... lol 

[hondo in seattle]

15 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

We played a far different style of football than our pass happy, no Defense AFL brethren. Much more modeled as a NFL team at the time, with a ferocious Defense and power running Offense. At one stage in the mid 60’s, we went 17 straight games without surrendering a 100 yard runner. Still, we were underdogs at home in the Title game to the point-a-minute, high flying circus of the San Diego Chargers who had been the Darlings of the new League. Here is a trip back for you oldtimers as we currently seek another shot at a Title.

 

 

 

 

5:50   "The hit heard around the world."  One of the most famous tackles in Bills lore.  Keith Lincoln was a league MVP that year and had already scored an early TD.  Stratton broke his ribs and took him out of the game.  Back in 1990, ESPN rated this the greatest hit in NFL history.   

 

Correction: It's at 28:00 in the first vid, 5:50 in the second.

 

Edited January 15 by hondo in seattle

[machine gun kelly]

Chandman, I’ll say what I always say to my Bills historian fan reminding us a bit younger guys who we are from the beginning.  Thank You!

 

BILLIEVE!!!!

 

I can’t find it on YouTube, but Paul Giamatti tells Russel Crowe gojng into the second to the last round of the heavyweight fight against Max Blair.  “ NOW, BURY HIM”

 

Thats what our boys need Sunday before entering the field.  Leave nothing.  Take everything.  Just like those 64 Bills.  Thanks again Chandman.

 

 

[John Gianelli]

Anyone notice that in the '64 game we were rushing just three linemen most of the time--Dunaway, Sestak and McDole. Turned out to be quite effective. 

[BearNorth]

I was a senior in HS.  Bills defense matched the ethos of WNY, lunch pail, get er done.  Stratton's "hit heard round the world" put Buffalo on the football map.  And of course Cleveland was the NFL team that was usually on the TV.  That would have been epic - Cookie and Jim Brown head to head.

[Chandler#81]

12 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Weathered enough to have seen the Stratton hit on Keith Lincoln in the 64 championship, when we were behind and they were moving the ball successfully again, at that game changing point.

I think the 65 team was a bit better.

On the stat thing, we had a dominant defense as you pointed out, with freakish continuity, but we did not face NFL offenses which were better than AFL ones.

Again, I think we were on the downside at the end of 66, and were killed on our home field by the Chiefs.

Specifically, I think  Kemp was on the downside, Gilchrist was gone and Joe Collier was the head coach.

I think a matchup against the Packers at that time would have had a "sub optimal outcome." and the Chiefs were much better at that point.

We lost Dubenion & Glenn Bass to injury early in ‘65 and Cookie was a Bronco, though our Defense was still at Championship level. The ‘64 team was much better all around.

[ComradeKayAdams]

On 1/14/2025 at 9:09 PM, Chandler#81 said:

Still, we were underdogs at home in the Title game to the point-a-minute, high flying circus of the San Diego Chargers who had been the Darlings of the new League.

 

Small correction: the 1966 AFL title game against the Chiefs was the only Buffalo home playoff game (other than Sunday night’s Ravens game) in which they were ever a Vegas underdog (+3.5). But back then, keep in mind that the AFL alternated home title games each year between the East and West divisions. So under modern NFL playoff rules, the Chiefs would have been the hosting team because they had a better regular season record.

 

For the 1964 AFL title game against the Chargers, the Bills were the Vegas home favorite (-5). For the 1965 AFL title game rematch, the Bills were the Vegas away underdog (+6).

 

On 1/14/2025 at 10:45 PM, Rhode Island Red said:

Advancing in age, it’s somehow refreshing to see this ‘raw footage’…and I’m speaking of the second vid, ‘cuz the first one is seemingly just this very earnest dweeb mispronouncing ‘DooBeneeon’ and ‘Seeestak’…. No video that I saw… Had to turn him off in short order, in spite of the fact I enjoyed hearing the names, and the story of Buster Ramsey, and then Lou Saban…

 

Your post reminds me of a very important question I had always been meaning to ask this message board: whatever happened to all the AFL game film of our beloved AFL Bills?? At NFL Films headquarters? Tucked away somewhere in Bills franchise archives? ABC broadcast archives (for 1960-1964)? NBC broadcast archives (for 1965-1969)? There are 144 games in total.

 

I ask because I would like to eventually see a grassroots movement emerge to get our AFL legends senior committee consideration for the Pro Football Hall of Fame: Gilchrist, Saimes, Byrd, Stratton, and ESPECIALLY Sestak. Actual game film can make the case that basic stats cannot.

 

On 1/14/2025 at 10:53 PM, Low Positive said:

1) Why did the AFL refs wear capri pants?

2) How would the Bills have fared against the 1964 NFL champ Browns in a theoretical Super Bowl? 

3) How cool would it have been if we had played in SB 1, which was a distinct possibility?

 

As an amateur internet Bills historian (and fashion enthusiast!), I’ll give this one a shot:

 

1. No idea. I think capri pants were popular in Hollywood at that time. I’ve seen old pics of Audrey Hepburn wearing them, at least.

 

2. I’ve read persuasive arguments from pro football historians making the claim that the AFL had mostly caught up to the NFL in talent by the mid-60’s, and that only Lombardi’s Packers dynasty far exceeded the talent of the best AFL teams. Up to a certain talent differential, the right X’s and O’s can surpass the Jimmy’s and Joe’s. Such is the mantra of “any given Sunday” in professional football.

 

So while the NFL would have likely won the imaginary Super Bowls of 1960-1962 and 1965, the 1963 Chargers would have matched up well with the 1963 Bears. Likewise, the 1964 Bills could have absolutely defeated the 1964 Browns! The speed and physicality and creativity of Joe Collier’s defense, coupled with Cookie’s running style and the novel AFL-style vertical passing game, could have easily flummoxed the Browns.

 

3. VERY cool.

 

On 1/15/2025 at 2:44 AM, Dan Darragh said:

Forgot that Cookie was #34.  For years I've remembered him as #32 but apparently he never wore that number.

 

Your mind was apparently associating Cookie’s number with that of another Bills Hall of Fame RB!

 

On 1/15/2025 at 9:49 AM, WotAGuy said:

The 17-game streak was actually for not allowing a rushing TD and went 16 games in 64 and another in 65. The Bills did set an AFL record for fewest rushing yards allowed at about 65 YPG in 64. 

 

Small correction: that legendary 17-game streak ran from week 7 of 1964 through week 8 of 1965.

[Dan Darragh]

3 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

 

On 1/15/2025 at 9:44 AM, Dan Darragh said:

Forgot that Cookie was #34.  For years I've remembered him as #32 but apparently he never wore that number.

 

3 hours ago, ComradeKayAdams said:

Your mind was apparently associating Cookie’s number with that of another Bills Hall of Fame RB!

 

Actually no.  I recall a sports trivia question that was making the rounds back in the 1980s, that went like this:

 

In 1963 the MVPs of the NL, AL, NFL and AFL all wore #32. Who were they?

 

NL - Sandy Koufax

AL - Elston Howard

NFL- Jim Brown

AFL - Cookie Gilchrist

 

Except that I now know that this was FAKE NEWS.  Not only didn't Cookie wear 32, but his MVP year was the season before that (in 1962). 

 

I'm so disillusioned. What hard truths will I learn next?  That they've used modern technology to determine that Frank Wycheck's pass was actually an illegal forward lateral? That Fitzpatrick's pass to Stevie Johnson was actually a legal catch? That there was a clock error and there should have only been 3 seconds on the clock, not 13?

Edited yesterday at 07:11 AM by Dan Darragh