Vinovich talks to Allen

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, fasteddie said:

He may be the best ref, but the flunkies assisting him were atrocious! I'm not sure if the refs in the next game are going to be any better. Playoff referees, for the most part, are inept.

yeah as someone mentioned in either the GDT or postgame thread, the side judge spotting the ball was shafting us pretty much all game it seemed like.  Continuously shaving off a half yard or so.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, fasteddie said:

He may be the best ref, but the flunkies assisting him were atrocious! I'm not sure if the refs in the next game are going to be any better. Playoff referees, for the most part, are inept.

How exaclty were they atrocious???

They missed two calls. And one was in favor of the Bills on the Kincaid non-catch. 

The no call on the PI was terrible. 

Agree with a few of the spots being off by a yard. 

They also let them play. They could have called Dawkins for pulling Cook. 

But you can't verbally abuse a ref. Last thing we want is Josh not getting a roughing call because he is berating the refs. 

Actually it was quite professional of him to just talk to him and say knock it off. Allen knew he went over the line and said so in his PC. 

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I actually have less of a problem with the missed calls than I do with the ridiculous penalties that they DO call. The unsportsmanlike penalty against Hollins was ludicrous! Players do not care about some ticky tack nonsense that a middle aged part time insurance management dude thinks is important to whistle.

He stepped over him and then kicked him. It was about as classic a taunting call as there is. It was total bush league. If that was Sutton doing that to Douglas you would be screaming for a flag. 

Edited 21 hours ago by Ethan in Cleveland

[rajinka]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Step normally around him. Not big stepping right over him.

 

He absolutely meant to start taunting him as he got up. And that is ok.

 

But also no ticky-tack holding calls against us, and no flagging Dion for blatantly illegally pulling/carrying the RB.

 

I'm fine with the refs allowing contact as long as they are letting the guys play through everything else.

I actually think when Hollins pushed his head to the ground is what drew the flag

[US Egg]

2 hours ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

 

 

“Where’s a good place for chicken wings”

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

How exaclty were they atrocious???

They missed two calls. And one was in favor of the Bills on the Kincaid non-catch. 

The no call on the PI was terrible. 

But you can't verbally abuse a ref. Last thing we want is Josh not getting a roughing call because he is berating the refs. 

Actually it was quite professional of him to just talk to him and say knock it off. Allen knew he went over the line and said so in his PC. 

He stepped over him and then kicked him. It was about as classic a taunting call as there is. It was total bush league. If that was Sutton doing that to Douglas you would be screaming for a flag. 

 

I agree that Hollins was an easy taunting call, but I think the Bronco player also deserved a penalty for grabbing Hollin's leg. 

[Stretch]

I thought Hollins was a bad call until I saw this angle.  He pushed Surtain’s facemask, Surtain then held him as he was stepping, and then Hollins planted his cleat on his chest.  That last part is what got called.

 

 

[transient]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

his body language it was in part.  He put his hand on his chest like  "my bad" 

Allen also patted him on the side, which I didn't notice before

I suspect that he was giving Allen the benefit of the doubt and some leeway cuz he's Allen,  but I suspect he was tapping his chest and saying "I don't want to have to be the one to toss you from the game" for whatever it was that Allen said. I suspect by their reactions and Allen's sheepish owning of it in the pressor that if this had been Jerry Hughes who said what he said he would have been tossed.

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He high stepped over him and then was giving it the thumb over the shoulder towards Surtain like "what's that joker's problem?" you can't do either of those things. It is taunting. Correct flag thrown. 

 

Agree with @DrDawkinstein on the spots. The line judge on the far side from the tv view must have been drunk. He blew at least 4 that I counted. 3 Bills, 1 Broncos.

He stepped over him and everything else was a direct result of Surtain grabbing and pulling on his back leg as he was trying to get clear of him.

 

He kicked him, yeah he kicked back to get his leg free.

That thumb over shoulder bit, yeah what was that #######s problem.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

There were a bunch of bad ones. There was one I specifically remember where Ty Johnson got a short yardage 1st down and they spotted it a full yard back. They were all over the place with spots yesterday.

 

Ehh, the refs need to stop it from getting too chippy. What Mack did was illegal and worth a flag. I dont mind him doing it or getting the flag, we need to have more of that attitude on the field. But it is a penalty by the book and will get called, especially in a game where tempers are already flaring.

In the first half I noticed at least 4-5 times the ball being spotted at least a yard short. Cook had one run to the 20 where they spotted it back at the 22.  It's where the ball is when the knee touches.  Not were the knee is.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

He stepped over him and everything else was a direct result of Surtain grabbing and pulling on his back leg as he was trying to get clear of him.

 

He kicked him, yeah he kicked back to get his leg free.

That thumb over shoulder bit, yeah what was that #######s problem.

 

But you can't do those things. You can hate the rule if you like but it is clear. 

[Mikey152]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He high stepped over him and then was giving it the thumb over the shoulder towards Surtain like "what's that joker's problem?" you can't do either of those things. It is taunting. Correct flag thrown. 

 

Agree with @DrDawkinstein on the spots. The line judge on the far side from the tv view must have been drunk. He blew at least 4 that I counted. 3 Bills, 1 Broncos.

Agree 100% on the spots...like a full yard off on several occasions.

[Warcodered]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

But you can't do those things. You can hate the rule if you like but it is clear. 

You can absolutely kick your leg free when some ####### is grabbing it trying to trip you up after the play, it's at worst offsetting, as to the taunt that's the weak as hell he's not even looking at him anymore and is walking away. If that's a taunt players can't even celebrate anymore.

[Tulsabillsfanz]

I think it was “sorry we missed that call, but you have to tone down the yelling or I will have to flag you “.   I think Josh was being classy after the game and only sharing the last part.  

That would square up with Josh’s history of always taking the blame for a loss & never taking the credit for a victory!  
 

Josh does the opposite of a lot of athletes, especially the “look at me” athletes!  He’s a great role model that I wish others would follow! 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

You can absolutely kick your leg free when some ####### is grabbing it trying to trip you up after the play, it's at worst offsetting, as to the taunt that's the weak as hell he's not even looking at him anymore and is walking away. If that's a taunt players can't even celebrate anymore.

 

You can kick your leg free. You can't high step. You can't direct your celebration at an opponent. 

 

Hollins did both. It's a clear flag.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can kick your leg free. You can't high step. You can't direct your celebration at an opponent. 

 

Hollins did both. It's a clear flag.

Yeah his high step barely cleared him, his emphatic step down is because that ####### tried to trip him up. But our WR catches a ball and goes down near the end zone and is tangled up with the defender, guy was trying to rip the ball away, has players directly behind him and decides to go forward and step over the player underneath him.

 

Other Player grabs his back leg trying to trip him, he then celebrates walking towards the end zone.

 

Clearly an obvious penalty, next thing you know he'll be thrusting his hips three times.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He high stepped over him and then was giving it the thumb over the shoulder towards Surtain like "what's that joker's problem?" you can't do either of those things. It is taunting. Correct flag thrown. 

 

Agree with @DrDawkinstein on the spots. The line judge on the far side from the tv view must have been drunk. He blew at least 4 that I counted. 3 Bills, 1 Broncos.

Hollins also swiped at his helmet right before he stepped over him. It was a good call (based on the current rules). But I wish they would do away with taunting. Loosen up those rules and then call an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty if something egregious happens. It is just a joke at this point.

[CNYfan]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can kick your leg free. You can't high step. You can't direct your celebration at an opponent. 

 

Hollins did both. It's a clear flag.

As I watched the replay 13 pushed down on the defender's facemask as I he stood to extricate himself from the entanglement.  That is when the referee reached for the flag.  As I don't listen to the audio, I am not sure if it was just "unsportsman like", or if it was specifically taunting.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

The gaslighting by the officials are nuts.  They miss a blatant call and then make a direct initiative to come over to Allen to tell him to not yell at them.  

 

These dudes need to realize they don't have jobs without the players.  These officials act like it's the other way around.  Aint no one paying to see Bill.

 

You are the one gaslighting if you are trying to tell people that officials don't have jobs.    Vinovich is a longtime CPA.   These guys are all well-paid professionals away from the field.  Officiating is a decent paying gig but it's not like they are even making NFL veteran minimum doing it.   

 

The NFL appreciates your very unbridled passion about officiating though.   Consumers(and voters) make decisions largely based on emotions so they love that you are so stirred.  As long as there are people like you voting for the unnecessarily subjective system of officiating by showing additional interest in the league every time human error happens we will surely be subjected to more of the same.

[Coach Tuesday]

If Allen has graduated to the status of having separate and enhanced relationships with the officials, such that he’s holding court with them on the sideline during games, I am 100% great with it.  I don’t think Bo Nix was getting private conversation treatment yesterday.

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Based on Josh's response in the presser it sounds like Josh probably used some choice words which could have resulted in a flag and was warning Josh.  It is also probably true Vinovich found out he had missed the call and may have said that.

This seems most likely, based on body language and Josh.  I can't see a ref going over to simply warn/scold Josh about his behavior, body language would be different.  Josh didn't want to fully discuss the exchange because he's too intelligent and classy, he only took accountability for his failures.  The ref coming over to say "hey, we did miss the call but you can't treat us like that again" seems most likely.  Maybe an apology but I doubt it because none was needed.  It's part of the game.