Allen vs Herbert

[H2o]

Allen>>>>>>>>Herbert

 

There really is no comparison between the two imo.

 

Allen is the better athlete, has better escapability, and a better pocket presence.

 

Allen has the stronger arm of the two. 

 

Allen can throw on the run better than Herbert. 

 

Allen can take over a game. I have NEVER seen Herbert take over a game. 

 

Allen is a leader of men and has shown this ability to make everyone else around him better all the time. Never once have I seen this with Herbert.  

 

Josh Allen does things that only Josh Allen can do. Some of the greatest throws I have ever seen. Hurdling defenders. Stiff-arming defensive ends to the ground, laying them flat. Herbert has zero of this in his game. 

 

There really is no comparison between the two, outside of their physical stature. 

[DrBob806]

9 hours ago, HomeTeam said:

 

 

I'll caveat by saying that I did not watch the game today and I'm aware he threw 4 picks. This is just going from my eye test of what I've seen of him over the years. 

One of his INTs was truly horrid, the other 3 were off his WRs hands. 

 

He's not JA, but remember they sent all their WRs packing after 2023. 

 

Lots of teams would be happy to have Herbert.

[Orlando Buffalo]

5 minutes ago, DrBob806 said:

One of his INTs was truly horrid, the other 3 were off his WRs hands. 

 

He's not JA, but remember they sent all their WRs packing after 2023. 

 

Lots of teams would be happy to have Herbert.

This is true, he is a good QB, watching the other games last week most NFL QBs can only work inside their system. Not many QBs can make a play when the system breaks down, truly the list might be Josh, LJ, and Mahomes of players that can take a crap show and turn it into a positive play, and Josh does it better than the other two.

[716]

10 hours ago, zow2 said:

 

Pretty sure Acho started it back in 2021.  He’s been on the Herbert is overrated thing for a while.

 

Yeah, Acho dubbed him the "Social Media Quaterback" lol

 

He looks the part, but doesn't deliver.

Edited January 12 by 716
addition

[Doc]

9 hours ago, stinky finger said:

Did anyone really think Herbert is a top 5 QB? 

 

I'd say after 2021, his 2nd season, he was considered one.  By then he had thrown for 9,350 yards, 69 TDs and 25 INTs.

[Chaos]

Football is a team game.  At his peak in an individual game, no NFL player comes close to Allen's ability to take over a game by himself.  Peak game Josh is the best player in NFL history.  Herbert does not compare at this measure. He does not compare to Allen in any other way either.  This does not mean   Herbert is not a good QB.  The league has actually entered a golden age of very productive QBs.   Herbert is a very productive QB who had a very bad game yesterday. 

[JGMcD2]

10 hours ago, mannc said:

Herbert isn’t getting much help.  His receivers had at least 6 drops today and his OC is a clown.  That being said, he’s a top 10 QB, but there’s a huge gap between Herbert and Allen….

Lol he hasn’t he starved of weapons his entire career. Not to mentioned very high draft picks recently on Quentin Johnson and Ladd McConkey. 
 

Keenan Allen

Mike Williams

Austin Ekeler

Hunter Henry

Jared Cook

Gerald Everett 

 

He walked into as good of a situation as anyone outside of Mahomes the last 15 years. 

[ProcessTruster]

Herbert doesn't have much around him, frankly.   The WR group is weak (look at all the drops yesterday, yikes), the O LIne cannot block anyone and is being rebuilt, and the Harbaugh/Roman bromance playcalling looks pretty sleepy.   That Greg Roman is still calling plays in the NFL is silly, but hey he's Harbaugh's old school buddy.

 

Josh had the same situation in 2017 and 2018 and just made his own plays to compensate... Seems Herbert can't or is not allowed to create on this own.  

[Man with No Name]

as one of my friends said, "Herbert went full Peterman" yesterday. 

 

on a side note, games like that always remind me of the time Romo threw 5 INTs against us, lost a fumble. and we somehow managed lose. Thanks a lot Trent!

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

Lol he hasn’t he starved of weapons his entire career. Not to mentioned very high draft picks recently on Quentin Johnson and Ladd McConkey. 
 

Keenan Allen

Mike Williams

Austin Ekeler

Hunter Henry

Jared Cook

Gerald Everett 

 

He walked into as good of a situation as anyone outside of Mahomes the last 15 years. 

 

Nobody is saying that. But that offense this year is severely limited by the weaponary. No surprise at all one of the INTs came with him trying to throw an out to the boundary and only having a small slot receiver out of position out there. It kinda went through McConkey's hands but it wasn't on him. Herbert mailed the throw slightly but you get away with that if you have a legit outside receiver there. The Quinten Johnston pick is a bust. Sunk cost at this stage but it's over he isn't turning that around. He can't separate, has questionable hands and plays smaller than his size. 

 

He has never been Josh Allen. And anyone making that comparison at any point is silly. He also played poorly last night. But Harbaugh and Roman are running a prehistoric scheme and have one playmaker who is a rookie slot receiver. His situation in 2024 was the worst in the league weapons wise.

[Ya Digg?]

6 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Herbert doesn't have much around him, frankly.   The WR group is weak (look at all the drops yesterday, yikes), the O LIne cannot block anyone and is being rebuilt, and the Harbaugh/Roman bromance playcalling looks pretty sleepy.   That Greg Roman is still calling plays in the NFL is silly, but hey he's Harbaugh's old school buddy.

 

Josh had the same situation in 2017 and 2018 and just made his own plays to compensate... Seems Herbert can't or is not allowed to create on this own.  

So my OP wasn't based off of yesterday's game, it's based off the fact that he has been in the league several years and has gone to the playoffs only 2 times.  The Chargers have invested heavily on the offensive side of the ball to give Herbert weapons.  Multiple first round picks used on wide receivers and the offensive line.  When he was drafted by them they already had big time weapons in Ekeler and Allen.  

 

As a fan of Josh (as we all are) and have had to defend him from criticsm for years, I think it is more than fair that it is now time during this offseason for Herbert to face his fair share of criticism.  The guy has somehow escaped it ever since he came into the league, and I hope people are finally starting to see what I've been seeing for a while

[CNYfan]

54 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The Quinten Johnston pick is a bust. Sunk cost at this stage but it's over he isn't turning that around. He can't separate, has questionable hands and plays smaller than his size

Johnston had a game or two this year, but there was better talent later on in the draft.

 

Sadly, Mr. Gunner, you know who my K. Coleman #0 comp is, and was coming out of the 24 Draft.  

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

I'd say after 2021, his 2nd season, he was considered one.  By then he had thrown for 9,350 yards, 69 TDs and 25 INTs.

The numbers are impressive. It just doesn't come across when I watch. He's talented for sure. In those numbers, I don't recall the big moments. I do remember the lost opportunities. 

[Billsatlastin2018]

14 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Watching this game should let us all know how lucky we are to have Josh on our team. Herbert is unbelievably talented, but it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t have “it”. Somehow year after year this guy has avoided criticism, so if there isn’t a “Herbert is overrated” club I would like to officially start it. 
 

To me, the difference between what Josh brings to the table and what Herbert does is the size of the Grand Canyon. If there is anyone who still thinks Herbert is a top 5 QB, please let me know what you see in him, because he’s not the guy 

Really glad you put this up. Always thought Herbert was and coined the phrase- the ‘Josh Allen of the AFC-W’. Said it many times! Rocket arms, pin point in coverage, running ability.

NEVER AGAIN!

 

Of course, like most of the Western world, LAC was my #1 Pick of WC Weekend! 🙄 Herbert was the ONLY reason the Chargers were humbled and humiliated yesterday, QBs with 4 Picks are something like 51- 515 All Time. Herbert was putrid!

 

PUTRID!

 

#17 has matriculated to a once in a lifetime MVP!

Herbert is in free fall to middle of the pack QB status. you see in him, because he’s not the guy !

Edited January 12 by Billsatlastin2018

[Mr. WEO]

Herbert is a huge bust.

 

Chargers need a playoff QB.  Should give Nick Foles a call. 

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody is saying that. But that offense this year is severely limited by the weaponary. No surprise at all one of the INTs came with him trying to throw an out to the boundary and only having a small slot receiver out of position out there. It kinda went through McConkey's hands but it wasn't on him. Herbert mailed the throw slightly but you get away with that if you have a legit outside receiver there. The Quinten Johnston pick is a bust. Sunk cost at this stage but it's over he isn't turning that around. He can't separate, has questionable hands and plays smaller than his size. 

 

He has never been Josh Allen. And anyone making that comparison at any point is silly. He also played poorly last night. But Harbaugh and Roman are running a prehistoric scheme and have one playmaker who is a rookie slot receiver. His situation in 2024 was the worst in the league weapons wise.

Excuses have been made for Herbert his entire career. First it was coaching and now it’s the supporting cast. 
 

It was Anthony Lynn’s fault his rookie season with an amazing supporting cast. Then he had wünderkid Brandon Staley who was the apple of the media’s with his absurd decision making. Now he has Harbaugh who everyone loves, and the excuse is that the weapons aren’t good enough. 

 

Herbert is who he is. 

[Thurman#1]

No comparison.

 

But Herbert is better than many on this thread are saying, IMO. Awful game, yes.

 

He's been in crappy situations. If Harbaugh can make that team tougher, I think we'll see Herbert miraculously get better.

 

Many thought Stafford wasn't good enough till he got put in a situation where he could win.

 

Many many many people used to talk about how excuses were being made for Stafford, how he was overrated and how he needed to take a step upwards. It was more that he needed to step onto a good team.

 

I don't know that Herbert can be a Stafford in a good situation. But I think it's a very reasonable possibility.

[Jerome007]

15 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Watching this game should let us all know how lucky we are to have Josh on our team.

My biggest worry with Josh was not that he would a bust. But that he would only be in the very good but not elite category. Like... Herbert, Tua, etc. Yep, we have a great one and it's wonderful.

[Nelius]

There has been no comparison for years. Herbert doesn’t have the fire, as displayed last night. He’s your robot if you want an efficient 280 yard game with a single TD pass. He’s young Kirk Cousins, complete with great regular season statistical games, and now horrific meltdowns when it matters.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, DrBob806 said:

One of his INTs was truly horrid, the other 3 were off his WRs hands. 

 

He's not JA, but remember they sent all their WRs packing after 2023. 

 

Lots of teams would be happy to have Herbert.

 

This. I'm surprised how critical Bills fans are being of Herbert after yesterday's game. Haven't we seen our own QB get let down by his teammates enough times to know what that looks like? I mean yesterday the Chargers offense was almost a perfect redux of the Bills offense against Baltimore earlier this year. Herbert's weapons and OL gave him no chance yesterday. Nobody is mistaking him for the best QB in the league but he is absolutely someone you can win a Super Bowl with, they just need a lot more around him.

 

Edited January 12 by HappyDays