Allen vs Herbert

[L Ron Burgundy]

I'm betting he'll turn things around.  This is likely the worst iteration of the Chargers.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

That's because he was a highly-regarded QB in the draft and had an excellent rookie season.  Most people can't shake first impressions.

Its why some people think Cam Newton was a good QB.  In his first few seasons, he was good.  After that, he sucked.  The majority of his career, he was a bad QB.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick started the Herbert Is Overrated club on his podcast Fitz and Whit.

 

2 hours ago, Billznut said:

He’s THE most overrated QB in the league. I’ll never understand the fascination. 

 

2 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Been that way for years. $50 million salary earns him “he’s great” narrative. See Trevor Lawrence. 

The space hippies knew it in the 1960s! 🤨

[mannc]

Herbert isn’t getting much help.  His receivers had at least 6 drops today and his OC is a clown.  That being said, he’s a top 10 QB, but there’s a huge gap between Herbert and Allen….

[L Ron Burgundy]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Herbert isn’t getting much help.  His receivers had at least 6 drops today and his OC is a clown.  That being said, he’s a top 10 QB, but there’s a huge gap between Herbert and Allen….

Agree.  He is overrated but he is definitely not bad.  Once they build that offense out more he'll look a lot better.  Chargers offense blows. 

[HomeTeam]

I like Herbert. I think you can win with him at quarterback. There are only so many franchise quarterbacks in the league and you'd be lucky to have him as yours. 

 

Does every quarterback have to be compared to Josh to be classified as a franchise guy? 

 

I'll caveat by saying that I did not watch the game today and I'm aware he threw 4 picks. This is just going from my eye test of what I've seen of him over the years. 

[Mikie2times]

Houston has made several very good QB’s look very bad, including Josh. But Allen is clearly head and shoulders better than Herbert

[Sierra Foothills]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Watching this game should let us all know how lucky we are to have Josh on our team. Herbert is unbelievably talented, but it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t have “it”. Somehow year after year this guy has avoided criticism, so if there isn’t a “Herbert is overrated” club I would like to officially start it. 
 

To me, the difference between what Josh brings to the table and what Herbert does is the size of the Grand Canyon. If there is anyone who still thinks Herbert is a top 5 QB, please let me know what you see in him, because he’s not the guy 

 

I've posted similar thoughts also. I find the esteem in which he's held to be annoying and offensive.

 

2 hours ago, djp14150 said:

Chargers could have been up 24-0 in this game early in the 3rd 2 FG, turnover, downs., and they let thrm get a late 98 yd TD drive.

 

Herbert needs very good receivers to be a pure passer. Right now he has just one.

 

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

Herbert isn’t getting much help.  His receivers had at least 6 drops today and his OC is a clown.  That being said, he’s a top 10 QB, but there’s a huge gap between Herbert and Allen….

 

They need to let Quentin Johnston go see if he's an NFL wide receiver somewhere else. He's not helping Herbert's career.

 

The thing is though... Herbert doesn't seem to make those around him better.

 

[Sierra Foothills]

5 minutes ago, HomeTeam said:

I like Herbert. I think you can win with him at quarterback. There are only so many franchise quarterbacks in the league and you'd be lucky to have him as yours. 

 

Does every quarterback have to be compared to Josh to be classified as a franchise guy? 

 

I'll caveat by saying that I did not watch the game today and I'm aware he threw 4 picks. This is just going from my eye test of what I've seen of him over the years. 

 

Someone upthread compared him to Trevor Lawrence and I think that's a good comparison.

 

Neither seems to raise the level of those around them. Occasionally they'll look great (Sam Darnold's another one) but they don't play consistently great.

 

[Real McClappy]

Who cares they are booted. Just win a friggin SB

[BillsPride12]

I'm not sure it's a case of Herbert escaping criticism so much as he has never been been classified under the Allen, Mahomes, Jackson status to begin with

[HomeTeam]

4 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Someone upthread compared him to Trevor Lawrence and I think that's a good comparison.

 

Neither seems to raise the level of those around them. Occasionally they'll look great (Sam Darnold's another one) but they don't play consistently great.

 

Maybe that's true even though I consider him a tier above those guys. I may be biased because I think he throws a beautiful ball and is sneaky mobile. All I know is that if I'm a GM and Herbert is my QB, I'm ecstatic. 

[Big Turk]

Herbert just doesn't have "it". 

 

Whatever that is, it's pretty clear it doesn't exist in him.

[stinky finger]

3 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Watching this game should let us all know how lucky we are to have Josh on our team. Herbert is unbelievably talented, but it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t have “it”. Somehow year after year this guy has avoided criticism, so if there isn’t a “Herbert is overrated” club I would like to officially start it. 
 

To me, the difference between what Josh brings to the table and what Herbert does is the size of the Grand Canyon. If there is anyone who still thinks Herbert is a top 5 QB, please let me know what you see in him, because he’s not the guy 

Did anyone really think Herbert is a top 5 QB? 

[folz]

I understand why people were high on him initially. In his first three seasons, he had 14,789 yards and 102 TDs. That averages to 4,930 yards and 34 TDs per season. Those are some pretty big numbers. He did also have 35 INTs, which is higher than you'd like, obviously. The Chargers had 6, 9, and then 10 wins in his first three years, for a 25-24 overall record. (The Chargers had 5 wins the year before they drafted Justin). They made the playoffs in his third year with 10 wins, and he played pretty well in the playoff game, though they lost to Jacksonville 31-30 in the Wild Card. But, he looked like a QB on the rise to most.

 

Now, I'm not sure what happened the last two years. Haven't watched much Herbert or Chargers. Is it Herbert? Is it loss of weapons/talent? Is it coaching or organizational? Probably a little all of the above. But they did still have 11 wins this season. So, I don't know. I don't think I'd put a fork in Herbert yet. But, yes, anyone who put him in the top tier of QBs a couple of years ago, was obviously premature (at best) or completely wrong (at worst). Maybe he just doesn't have that killer instinct/extra gear that the greats have. But then sometimes you're just considered not a big game guy until you are. I guess we'll see if Herbert can ever overcome that well-worn stigma.

[Ya Digg?]

16 minutes ago, stinky finger said:

Did anyone really think Herbert is a top 5 QB? 

Absolutely people do/did. All offseason he was very much in the discussion of being in the top 5. I’m not saying I agree with that, clearly I don’t, but he is always mentioned as a top guy. Same with Stroud, but his team won so I will hold off on him for now 

Edited 3 hours ago by Ya Digg?

[Ya Digg?]

51 minutes ago, HomeTeam said:

I like Herbert. I think you can win with him at quarterback. There are only so many franchise quarterbacks in the league and you'd be lucky to have him as yours. 

 

Does every quarterback have to be compared to Josh to be classified as a franchise guy? 

 

I'll caveat by saying that I did not watch the game today and I'm aware he threw 4 picks. This is just going from my eye test of what I've seen of him over the years. 

As I mentioned in my OP, I think he is really talented. That being said, he should not be above criticism and for some reason he largely is. Outside of perhaps Mahomes, go through any QB other than Herbert who most would say are, let’s say, the top 8 QBs in the league and they all get criticized. Herbert has gone to the playoffs twice, lost both games, has missed the playoffs several times, so I don’t understand why he gets to skate by

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

He is the least clutch QB in the league.