AP All-Pro Teams Announced. Josh 2nd Team Only Bill.

[Sharky7337]

Josh Allen has been historically shunned by the media more then any other young QB and had to go to much higher heights to get the recognition he deserved.

 

Unfortunately, the media still has a hard time giving him his credit as far as MVP goes.

 

Lamar had a good season no doubt, but you cannot tell me that Josh is not more valuable to his team.

 

 

[sullim4]

20 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Look at what happens to Lamar when Henry struggles.  That tells the story.  Henry is the MVP of that team, not Lamar. If Cook struggles, Josh just goes nuclear.

 

This is the thing that nobody in the media talks about.  Lamar's recent performance is directly tied to the Henry acquisition.

 

Allen on the other hand performs in spite of having a questionable receiver room and while Cook is very good... he is no Henry.  This is the very definition of MVP.

[Mikey152]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

I can't imagine that Allen cares.

 

Also, the Ravens were 7-3 against playoff teams whereas we were 2-3 against playoff teams.  They also played in a notably tougher division and obviously had a tougher schedule.  At the end of the day Jackson posted better numbers across the board.  

 

Let's win now and win the AFC, otherwise it cements the argument.  

 

 

I don’t think I agree on the schedule.

 

those 5 games for the Bills were all division winners and included both #1 seeds. They also played both #1 seeds and the final 4 from last season this year. 
 

meanwhile, more than half of the ravens games against playoff teams were against wildcard teams…they also lost to the best AND worst teams in the NFL.

[CincyBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Sharky7337 said:

Josh Allen has been historically shunned by the media more then any other young QB and had to go to much higher heights to get the recognition he deserved.

 

Unfortunately, the media still has a hard time giving him his credit as far as MVP goes.

 

Lamar had a good season no doubt, but you cannot tell me that Josh is not more valuable to his team.

 

 

Yep that's what I've noticed since Allen got drafted.  For sure it's not all media members and there are a lot of football media types who praise Allen in the same spirit that Mahomes is praised.  But there is a weirdly large number of these NFL media people who are relentlessly negative about Allen.  It seems personal with them and I don't get it given that Allen seems to be a nice guy.

 

The notion that Jackson has been "disrespected" & "under appreciated" is ludicrous on its face as the guy has won 2 MVP's and seems poised to win a 3rd all without any sustained playoff success or accomplishments. Yea I know it's a "regular season" award but there has to be some connection between the award and playoff achievements or the award is no better then a Peoples Choice award.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

I don’t think I agree on the schedule.

 

those 5 games for the Bills were all division winners and included both #1 seeds. They also played both #1 seeds and the final 4 from last season this year. 
 

meanwhile, more than half of the ravens games against playoff teams were against wildcard teams…they also lost to the best AND worst teams in the NFL.

Also 4 of those 5 games were played by the Bills on the road.

 

Beating the two 15 win teams, one on the road, eclipses the Ravens better overall record against playoff bound teams IMO.

 

 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

22 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Otherwise only Taron Johnson and Reid Ferguson got any votes at all among Bills.

Long snapper: how on earth would you decide? Did Ferguson have a single bad snap this year? Did anyone beat him and block a kick? 

Let the Reid Ferguson Gets No Respect bandwagon begin!

[uticaclub]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think the Defense is going to put on a show tomorrow.  

I really hope you are right. In our 2 wins against winning teams they had absolutely gashed.

[BRH]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Jim Kelly never won a super bowl never won an MVP never won a player of the year

 

Warren Moon never won a super bowl or an AP MVP

 

Dan Fouts also fits that category -- also, like Moon, never even PLAYED in a SB -- but he should have won MVP the year they gave it to Mark freaking Moseley.

 

On the flip side, Roman Gabriel swept all the awards in 1969 but isn't in the Hall of Fame.

 

Edited Saturday at 04:45 PM by BRH

[Sojourner]

23 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Lamar will win MVP.  He got 30 1st Team All Pro votes.  Josh got 18 

I believe the AP voters may be the same  (not positive)

I’ll go through the thread and see as I presume a lot of people highlight what you’ve said. 
 

Sadly, I agree with you. This is the first time in a while I’ve truly paid attention to the voting processes at the end of the year but given the narratives, stories and arguments that are taking place it seems like most of what I hear is either a pounding of the table, by few, for him to win or vehemently for him to lose the MVP. 
 

Vice versa for Lamar. It’s like it’s a foregone conclusion he’s getting the award again or is first in line for consideration. 
 

Isn’t going to surprise me one bit, especially now with first team AP, that he wins it again. 
 

Sad because in the bigger picture, I can see how you give it to the guy this year even if he’s in the #3 seed. 
 

The problem becomes how did you not give it to Josh in 2023/24? 

It’ll never happen but I truly would like these guys to make it known who they voted for and why. That seems pretty fair and logical imo. 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

I really hope you are right. In our 2 wins against winning teams they had absolutely gashed.

 

They weren't against KC.

[BarleyNY]

22 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

And, now McDermott will receive no serious consideration for COY . Logic is lost

What’s your rationale for McD being COY? He’s got a top four QB and is a second seed. Seems pretty much what you’d expect. Coaches like Campbell and O’Connell have done more with less. Reid has the AFC 1 seed and best record, tho he lost to McD. Campbell also has a 1 seed. Even coaches like Payton should be in the mix. He’s done very well with what he has had to work with. There’s a number of coaches who can make a case. What’s so special about what McD did this season?

[PBF81]

56 minutes ago, Mikey152 said:

I don’t think I agree on the schedule.

 

those 5 games for the Bills were all division winners and included both #1 seeds. They also played both #1 seeds and the final 4 from last season this year. 
 

meanwhile, more than half of the ravens games against playoff teams were against wildcard teams…they also lost to the best AND worst teams in the NFL.

 

It was a pretty simple line there, not much to disagree with.  The Ravens were 7-3 against playoff teams.  

 

The beat us, which is hardly insignificant in the argument, and in grand fashion, they beat Washington, Tampa, Denver, the Chargers, the Steelers, and the Texans.  They lost to the Chiefs, Steelers (divisional opponent), and Philly.  

 

We had a dozen games against non-playoff teams and went 2-3 in the others.  We didn't beat any two playoff teams back to back.  When your schedule is such that you play 60% playoff teams, it's much more difficult to get up that often.  We have a tendency to get up for big games in the regular season, hence our 4-0 vs. KC in the RS, but 0-3 in the postseason.  Same for Detroit which we got up for.  

 

You mention division winners, sure, Detroit and KC, but we also lost to two of the weakest teams in the playoffs, the Rams and Texans, neither of which even had a positive point-differential.  And of course getting annihilated by the Ravens helps cement the argument there too.  Throw in the Bengals which weren't a playoff team but were close, and which were arguably better than several playoff teams, and their division was worlds more difficult than ours having played 12 games against playoff teams plus Cincy.  Would we want to play Cincy in the playoffs?  Anyway, contrast that with our dozen games against non-playoff teams.  

 

If you asked, I can't imagine that anyone would rather have had their schedule than ours, and it's probably not a great assumption to guess that we would have been 13-4 with their schedule.  As it is, our point differential against playoff teams was negative, -15.  Theirs was +112.  

 

That's what a lot of people doing the voting are looking at.  

 

We'll see, but we first need to get past Denver, the toughest D we'll have played all season.  Cook generally hasn't performed well against such Ds.  We'll need players to step up besides Allen.  After that, we'll play Baltimore at home unless they lose to Pitt, and if we can't win that game it would further cement the argument.   

 

Some people count another division as a successful season with Allen at QB, but I'm not one of 'em.  We at least need to win the AFC.  

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 05:15 PM by PBF81

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

33 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

What’s your rationale for McD being COY? He’s got a top four QB and is a second seed. Seems pretty much what you’d expect. Coaches like Campbell and O’Connell have done more with less. Reid has the AFC 1 seed and best record, tho he lost to McD. Campbell also has a 1 seed. Even coaches like Payton should be in the mix. He’s done very well with what he has had to work with. There’s a number of coaches who can make a case. What’s so special about what McD did this season?

I feel like no one is talking about McD, yet his team is 14-3 and #2 seed. And, we have very few elite players per Pro bowl and All pro voting and expectations going into season. We do have a great QB , yet he's only 2nd team and likely won't win MVP. Someone has to be doing something right we are getting disrespected for how good we are. Either McDermott is a super coach or the narrative is messed up. IMO he's a good coach and culture builder, we have alot of good to very good players, and we have the most valuable difference maker in football. Josh should be MVP and easily IMO. Something smells. It doesn't add up.

 

Edited Saturday at 05:36 PM by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[uticaclub]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They weren't against KC.

If Josh doesn’t score the TD to go up by 2 scores, we MIGHT be singing a different tune.

[BarleyNY]

38 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I feel like no one is talking about McD, yet his team is 14-3 and #2 seed. And, we have very few elite players per Pro bowl and All pro voting and expectations going into season. We do have a great QB , yet he's only 2nd team and likely won't win MVP. Someone has to be doing something right we are getting disrespected for how good we are. Either McDermott is a super coach or the narrative is messed up. IMO he's a good coach and culture builder, we have alot of good to very good players, and we have the most valuable difference maker in football. Josh should be MVP and easily IMO. Something smells. It doesn't add up.

 

 

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/coach-year-odds/

 

There are the odds. McD fell off recently, but is still 7th. He was higher earlier. I don’t think it’s difficult to make a case that he’s a good coach. But I don’t see any criteria where he is #1 this season.  

[Mikey152]

57 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

It was a pretty simple line there, not much to disagree with.  The Ravens were 7-3 against playoff teams.  

 

The beat us, which is hardly insignificant in the argument, and in grand fashion, they beat Washington, Tampa, Denver, the Chargers, the Steelers, and the Texans.  They lost to the Chiefs, Steelers (divisional opponent), and Philly.  

 

We had a dozen games against non-playoff teams and went 2-3 in the others.  We didn't beat any two playoff teams back to back.  When your schedule is such that you play 60% playoff teams, it's much more difficult to get up that often.  We have a tendency to get up for big games in the regular season, hence our 4-0 vs. KC in the RS, but 0-3 in the postseason.  Same for Detroit which we got up for.  

 

You mention division winners, sure, Detroit and KC, but we also lost to two of the weakest teams in the playoffs, the Rams and Texans, neither of which even had a positive point-differential.  And of course getting annihilated by the Ravens helps cement the argument there too.  Throw in the Bengals which weren't a playoff team but were close, and which were arguably better than several playoff teams, and their division was worlds more difficult than ours having played 12 games against playoff teams plus Cincy.  Would we want to play Cincy in the playoffs?  Anyway, contrast that with our dozen games against non-playoff teams.  

 

If you asked, I can't imagine that anyone would rather have had their schedule than ours, and it's probably not a great assumption to guess that we would have been 13-4 with their schedule.  As it is, our point differential against playoff teams was negative, -15.  Theirs was +112.  

 

That's what a lot of people doing the voting are looking at.  

 

We'll see, but we first need to get past Denver, the toughest D we'll have played all season.  Cook generally hasn't performed well against such Ds.  We'll need players to step up besides Allen.  After that, we'll play Baltimore at home unless they lose to Pitt, and if we can't win that game it would further cement the argument.   

 

Some people count another division as a successful season with Allen at QB, but I'm not one of 'em.  We at least need to win the AFC.  

 

 

 

 

That’s a lot of retcon and one-sided arguing…

 

Take the Bengals for example…how are they much different from a team like the Dolphins? Honestly, they’re really pretty similar, and even finished pretty much the same way. The only difference is the Bengals were bad because they let defensive players walk and the Dolphins were bad this year because their quarterback was hurt (but he played in both games against Buffalo). Just like the 49ers were bad because Mccaffery was hurt (but he played against the Bills). Same with the Texans and Rams who were, you guessed it, healthier for the Bills game.

At the start of the season, the Bills had a WAY tougher schedule on paper. Most of the teams that didn’t perform did so due to injury…but they weren’t injured against the Bills.

 

Speaking of injury, why does nobody mention injury when we talk about that first meeting with the Ravens? Bernard and Johnson were both out and Shakir got hurt in that game…and that is exactly what the Ravens targeted. They won’t be able to do that this time around.

 

Edited Saturday at 06:10 PM by Mikey152

[klos63]

2 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

It is announced super bowl week

I know,  my point was that fans are getting in a huff over the results that haven't been announced yet. 

This has taken over their lives,  I've been reading stuff since October on how Allen deserves the award.  It's a crazy obsession. 

[Ray Stonada]

2 hours ago, DapperCam said:

It does kind of make me wonder if the Broncos don’t have their GW FG blocked, and the Raiders center doesn’t inexplicably snap it in range for the GW FG when nobody was ready if Allen wins MVP. Two fluke plays that allowed the Chiefs to be the #1 seed that have nothing to do with us.

If the Chiefs lost those two games and we’d gotten the top seed, Allen would win MVP unanimously. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

15 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nfl/coach-year-odds/

 

There are the odds. McD fell off recently, but is still 7th. He was higher earlier. I don’t think it’s difficult to make a case that he’s a good coach. But I don’t see any criteria where he is #1 this season.  

Yes , most of my logic is based on the fact I feel he's a good to very good coach, but JA17 is an easy MVP if you're being honest about what the award is for and not immersed in the other guys stats are a little better.

[PromoTheRobot]

Mr. Assumed MVP had 5 teammates make All Pro, wins 12 games. 

 

Josh Allen has no all pro teammates. Wins 14.

 

Okay.

Edited Saturday at 06:24 PM by PromoTheRobot

[BarleyNY]

7 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Yes , most of my logic is based on the fact I feel he's a good to very good coach, but JA17 is an easy MVP if you're being honest about what the award is for and not immersed in the other guys stats are a little better.

 

I thought Allen probably should have won it last season and probably Lamar this. But if they want to give it to Jackson last season and Allen this, then that’s fine too. Jackson has better stats, but Allen is doing it all with a lot less. 

Edited Saturday at 06:25 PM by BarleyNY