This is beautiful, but painful

[GoBills808]

33 minutes ago, Dan said:

I'm not sure I agree with that.  The Bills had one of the best offenses in the history of the league.  Period.  They don't need to add much to it.  Maybe retain players.  Yes.    But, more importantly, in my mind… retain the services of Joe Brady.   It would be really nice to not replace our OC yet again!    
 

Exact opposite for me

 

Priority is getting more talent around Allen. As per usual. Whoever happens to be OC is incidental...it's destined to be a revolving door regardless

[TFBillsfan]

Adding Elite/difference makers to the roster is one thing that is significantly lacking. The Bills have a solid team, but outside of Josh, no one that can takeover a game. 
 

LaPorta (3rd)has been more impactful than Kincaid (1st) who we traded up for. 

 

Coleman has been average but he’s not going to be WR1.

 

Shakir has been a solid slot WR.

 

Defensively, no one on the DL is a game wrecker.

 

LB, Milano and Bernard are solid but injuries have set them back.

 

Secondary, Benford who is our 6th round pick has been by far the best secondary player. Bishop for a 2nd round pick looks okay. Hamlin is meh and good depth. And our 1st round CB, Elam, struggles to see the field and most likely won’t be on the roster going forward. 
 

Unfortunately, Oliver, Rousseau, Kincaid, Elam and Coleman haven’t been the impactful players we’ve needed. 
 

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, T master said:

I agree that they need more young talent at WR but they let a 1000 yd WR go only to get better so is it imperative that you have 1 WR that gets all of those yards especially the way Josh is distributing the ball to all of the others ?

 

It definitely helped bringing in Coop to take some of the attention away from the other receivers but seeing as Josh has had 14 different players catch balls thrown to them is a 1000 receiver really necessary ? 

 

I guess we'll find out.

 

I don't think it's "1000 yd receiver" per se that the Bills need.

 

What the Bills need is a guy (or two) who can win against the best CBs in the league, especially when the CBs are playing physical and jamming them on the line, and the refs are keeping their laundry in their pockets against DH and some DPI.

 

Example: the Bills had a bona-fide 1000 yd receiver in Diggs.  6 years 1000+ yds, 1000+ with the Bills.  But Diggs, at 6'0, 190, was ineffective in the playoffs because he was physically worn down at that point, and because he was struggling to release against very physical CB play and to uncover against uncalled DH/DPI.  And then, in 2022/2023 I believe his play had just fallen off and he was getting his 1000+ yds by demanding to be force-fed.

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, TFBillsfan said:

 

LaPorta (3rd)has been more impactful than Kincaid (1st) who we traded up for. 

 

 

For what it's worth, LaPorta was drafted 34th overall (not in the 3rd) and Kincaid was drafted 25th overall. I agree though that we could use more elite players.

[HerdMentality]

Well fine, but does he get a vote?

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, Goin Breakdown said:

Fully agree here. I remember Beanes comment. It's such a crap shoot. I think the higher projected WRs are "supposed to be better" but that's not always the case and everyone else is kind of luck of the draw, being in the right system, having good coaching that develop and so on. It's really hard to tell. Your list tells the story. My main point is this. Don't expect that Beans is just going to go out and throw money at every WR available. Will he check in? Yep but he's not going to panic. I would love to see Josh with another Diggs or better to compliment Shakir. Not sure if Coleman is that guy but I'm holding into hope he can be at least a solid 2 behind someone and Shakir in the slot. 

 

The crap shoot nature of the draft, is actually the basis for the studies that say over time, a team does better to stockpile picks and take more shots at players, than they do to trade up for a player they perceive as a special talent (again, the exception being positions like QB where either you have a great one or you'll not sustain success)

 

I understood why the Bills traded for Diggs.  They had their hoped-for franchise QB going into his 3rd year, and they needed to make a decision THAT YEAR as to whether they were going to extend him or try again.  And he was up-and-down - some fantastic play, some bonehead moves.   Taking a shot at a talented rookie was the right cap strategy, but to be sure they had The Man at QB and avoid making a Daniel Jones type mistake, they had to give him a sure-fire top WR talent who would be good and able to run all the routes, THAT YEAR.

But I agree with you, Beane is not going to necessarily go after a top FA WR.  I just hope we don't get a hard lesson in the playoffs that Beane has cheaped it a bit much and we don't have enough.

[Sojourner]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Josh was named "Most Overrated" before the season, and then came out with a huge chip on his shoulder and carried the entire team for the whole season to an amazing year.

 

I'm almost hoping he gets snubbed just to stoke the fire right before the playoffs so he can use it to fuel a Super Bowl run.

 

The only MVP award that I want him chasing is Super Bowl MVP.

 

MOP to MVP!

 

Supes does it again!

 

[Sojourner]

5 hours ago, Offside Number 76 said:

Low-tech and I kind of liked that.  Great breakdown of what happened on that play.

Class of Baldy Technical Institute, 2024

[DrDawkinstein]

41 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

Adding Elite/difference makers to the roster is one thing that is significantly lacking. The Bills have a solid team, but outside of Josh, no one that can takeover a game. 
 

LaPorta (3rd)has been more impactful than Kincaid (1st) who we traded up for.
 

 

 

Agreed we need more homeruns from the draft instead of singles and doubles, but question on the TE point:

 

Do you believe, if you switch the players and teams, LaPorta would have the same stats/impact on the Bills, and Kincaid would not be putting up numbers in Detroit? In other words, is there really a big difference in player talent between the two, or is it more the specific team and how they use the player?

[Dan]

50 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Exact opposite for me

 

Priority is getting more talent around Allen. As per usual. Whoever happens to be OC is incidental...it's destined to be a revolving door regardless

All evidence points to the offense as being perfectly fine.   I agree, I think we need more talent around Allen.  But I think that talent needs to be on the defensive side of the ball.  We need that one or two players in defense that can take a game over and get the ball back in Allen’s hands when needed. 
 

I’d be perfectly happy bringing the offense, as is, back.   But they need to find a LB and/or DE that can do what no one on the defense can.. take over a game. 
 

In essence I think talk of improving the offense is misguided, as long as it’s the defense that is limiting our success.   This playoff season still to be determined.  

[Sojourner]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Agreed we need more homeruns from the draft instead of singles and doubles, but question on the TE point:

 

Do you believe, if you switch the players and teams, LaPorta would have the same stats/impact on the Bills, and Kincaid would not be putting up numbers in Detroit? In other words, is there really a big difference in player talent between the two, or is it more the specific team and how they use the player?

Absolutely Kincaid is putting up the production that LaPorta is if he was in Detroit. But that goes down to the system and players in it I would think as much as the talent the player has themselves?
 

Their ground game is in the upper echelon and in turn their play action passing. Couple that with an absolute stud WR in ASB and one that looks to be the same in Williams and it’s hard to isolate one guy at a time. 
 

Talent wise, there not much difference but I honestly prefer Kincaid given the higher athleticism. 

[GoBills808]

5 minutes ago, Sojourner said:

Absolutely Kincaid is putting up the production that LaPorta is if he was in Detroit. But that goes down to the system and players in it I would think as much as the talent the player has themselves?
 

Their ground game is in the upper echelon and in turn their play action passing. Couple that with an absolute stud WR in ASB and one that looks to be the same in Williams and it’s hard to isolate one guy at a time. 
 

Talent wise, there not much difference but I honestly prefer Kincaid given the higher athleticism. 

Love me some Jameson Williams

 

If he gets cut loose in Detroit he would be my priority FA target

[TFBillsfan]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

For what it's worth, LaPorta was drafted 34th overall (not in the 3rd) and Kincaid was drafted 25th overall. I agree though that we could use more elite players.

Good catch on my error on LaPorta’s draft round.

[RyanC883]

Video shows 2 things: 

 

(1) Allen is the best QB in the NFL

 

(2) We still need to draft or get a #1 WR in FA.  

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Exact opposite for me

 

Priority is getting more talent around Allen. As per usual. Whoever happens to be OC is incidental...it's destined to be a revolving door regardless

 

I'd like to keep Brady and get talent.  The best offenses appear to have consistency at OC and at least one elite player in addition to QB.  

[BillMafia716ix]

14 hours ago, QB Bills said:

I often wonder what kind of stats Allen would put up with a receiving group like some of the stronger ones in the league (Bengals, Eagles, Rams, etc) in an offense that prioritizes the passing game.

We have already and it includes Josh turning the ball over a ton. I don’t want to go back to that. I like how balanced we are. 

[BillsFanForever19]

15 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

The only MVP award that I want him chasing is Super Bowl MVP.

 

You know he can do both, right? They aren't mutually exclusive. Josh isn't going to find an extra level by losing the MVP or lose his fire by winning it. His ultimate goal, as always, is to win a Super Bowl.

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Agreed we need more homeruns from the draft instead of singles and doubles, but question on the TE point:

 

Do you believe, if you switch the players and teams, LaPorta would have the same stats/impact on the Bills, and Kincaid would not be putting up numbers in Detroit? In other words, is there really a big difference in player talent between the two, or is it more the specific team and how they use the player?

 

That's a really good question.  I would like to know the answer to that, myself.

[Beck Water]

58 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

We have already and it includes Josh turning the ball over a ton. I don’t want to go back to that. I like how balanced we are. 

 

I would say that arguably, 2020 was the year we had the best WR talent so far

 

-Diggs at his peak with 1535 receiving yards and 127 receptions

-Beasley at his peak with 967 receiving yards and 82 receptions

-Gabe Davis with 35 receptions on 699 yards as a highly promising rookie who the league hadn't written "the book" on yet

-John Brown, slowing down and injured part of the season but still able to turn on the afterburners

-Isaiah McKenzie, able to beat man coverage and run gadget routes, but used sparingly and not being depended upon

 

For what it's worth, Josh threw 10 interceptions that year (one of which was not an interception and yes I'm still salty), a 1.7% interception rate vs. this year 1.2%

 

I think we need to stay balanced, but I don't believe adding receiver talent and passing yards would necessarily add interceptions.

 

It would be nice to be able to have at least 2 receivers get open on almost every play once again, instead of "all fall down" (or get flattened) and Josh has to make the magic happen

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, VaMilBill said:

The problem with the all-time great thing is the National media is stupid and only looks at surface-level stats and awards and SB appearances. 
 

josh is an all-time great and I believe he is a much better QB than Lamar. But the media just has their talking points and probably don’t watch all of the bills games to actually provide and informed opinion. 

 

The media is in love with Lamar's running prowess.  I get it; he's a legit talent.

 

But they somehow seem to ignore or understate Josh's escapability and running prowess.  It's like because he is big and physical and can run guys over or hurdle them, they don't see that he has field vision to avoid guys and can juke and cut to make guys miss.

 

I continually hear the commentators saying stuff like "No other QB in the league could make that play" and thinking "Exsqueeze me?" while Josh simply shrugs and says "here, Hold my Beer"

[ganesh]

14 hours ago, Goin Breakdown said:

I agree and I honestly don't think well ever know.  I'm not going to say that they never try to get guys, but I don't think it's a premium concern of theirs as I do think they rely on Josh doing Josh things and lifting up players. I also think we're too good to ever be in a position to grab a top WR. 

Josh had three great years with Stephon Diggs and they were the #1 QB/WR combo during that period in the NFL.