One Thing: Keon looked terrible yesterday

[PauleeeWalnuts]

12 hours ago, Dr. K said:

I realize he was being thrown to by Trubisky and White instead of Allen, but against a bad secondary he got zero separation yesterday. Two catches on ten targets. 

 

He's shown some real flashes this season, but I'd say I'm more worried about him and his prospects now than I have been before this game. 

Hes just not very good 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Cubanmist]

Keon will be Keon. I personally would not consider him a WR1-3 he’s more of a WR4. Bills need to draft at least 2 more WRs in this years draft.  Cooper may not be back.

[Richard Noggin]

This is a fun one.

[gobills404]

Lol of course we play a meaningless game that does nothing except hurt our division rival and half of y’all still need to find something to piss and moan about. Dude was on pace for 800 yards and 6 TDs as a rookie before he got hurt and yet some fans are acting like to book is already written and he’s not an NFL starter. Miss me with that shortsighted BS.

Edited yesterday at 03:51 AM by gobills404

[NickelCity]

Keon will be fine.

[Beck Water]

FWIW on OBL Eric Wood commented about Keon "I give him a pass on many of those, they weren't necessarily catchable"

[Sojourner]

1 hour ago, Cubanmist said:

Keon will be Keon. I personally would not consider him a WR1-3 he’s more of a WR4. Bills need to draft at least 2 more WRs in this years draft.  Cooper may not be back.

A four?!?

 

I’ll agree with anyone that he’s not a bonafide number one but he’s a solid complimentary piece. Easily a number two guy, three at worst. 

[YattaOkasan]

6 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I do too...I'm far from giving up on him. But his issues are obvious. The lack of speed will never magically improve. Maybe Brady (if he's around long enough) will find his strengths and match them up with Josh in the playbook.  Another concerning stat if you want to compare rookie players is Gabe had a 57% catch rate his rookie season.  And we all know what kind of hands he had.  Keon this year just finished at 50%.  And if he lacks the ability to separate,  then the 50/50 balls will simply translate to a career around 50%.  Believe me I hope I'm wrong. 

Going into yesterday’s slop fest Keon Coleman had 27 catches on 47 receptions. Which is….. 57%. That is also not just Gabes rookie catch % but his best catch %.  The drops are a problem for Keon but are correctable. Separation can even be increased (it’s not only speed).  Get the drops under control and he’s a 60%+ player if you’re not just hucking the ball up there with Mike white. 

[Kelly to Allen]

This is honestly one of the most bizarre threads or topics I've ever seen pop up in here or in local media. And it all just randomly came out of nowhere over a meaningless game. 

 

Some of the stuff I'm reading is just WOW.

 

This is crazy

 

 

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

This is honestly one of the most bizarre threads or topics I've ever seen pop up in here or in local media. And it all just randomly came out of nowhere over a meaningless game. 

 

Some of the stuff I'm reading is just WOW.

 

This is crazy

 

I see no lies.

 

People were not talking about how he looked terrible when he went up for that jump shot TD against the Jets.  Or when he made a neat over the shoulder catch for a TD against Jax.  Or when he had a 125 yd game against Seattle.  

 

The guy was asked to soldier for 97% of the snaps in a meaningless game with a not-very-good and a bad QB he's had little practice with, throwing to him.  He did what he was asked.

 

59 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Going into yesterday’s slop fest Keon Coleman had 27 catches on 47 receptions. Which is….. 57%. That is also not just Gabes rookie catch % but his best catch %.  The drops are a problem for Keon but are correctable. Separation can even be increased (it’s not only speed).  Get the drops under control and he’s a 60%+ player if you’re not just hucking the ball up there with Mike white. 

 

Prior to having his right arm slammed into by Poyer's helmet and suffering some type of lingering injury that took him out 5 weeks (4 games), he had a 61% catch %

Edited yesterday at 05:57 AM by Beck Water

[Kelly to Allen]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I see no lies.

 

People were not talking about how he looked terrible when he went up for that jump shot TD against the Jets.  Or when he made a neat over the shoulder catch for a TD against Jax.  Or when he had a 125 yd game against Seattle.  

 

The guy was asked to soldier with 97% of the snaps in a meaningless game and a not-very-good and a bad QB throwing to him.  He did what he was asked.

 

It's not so much a healthy critique of his route running development or some drops but it's just bizarre. Like ppl all over Twitter were just attacking him and I was like what??? I was barely watching the game. I was just checking every 10-15 minutes to make sure guys stayed healthy or if Solomon could get a sack 

 

I mean he's completely outplayed expectations and has been our biggest big play weapon this year. He's had the best rookie season from a wr in a long time. 

 

Like he was on pace for 45/ 900 maybe more and like 8 tds.  

 

He has had a little rusty since the injury and his routes need a little more nuance but he's way ahead of schedule. 

 

Everyone has an opinion but ppl need to get a grip. Some of the takes from local bills ppl were off the wall weird. Like from the jump this guy has made big play after big play. Some inconsistent stuff, but man have I been impressed. He kinda reminds me of Alvin Harper but when he was already in year 2. He's an incredible talent 

 

What exactly are ppl expecting? Like prime John Stallworth as a rookie lol. And yes he's better than Worthy. And no it's not close lol

 

12 pages over a meaningless game is cuckoo for Cocoa puffs 

Edited yesterday at 06:07 AM by Kelly to Allen

[TheBrownBear]

9 hours ago, JMM said:

I think it's way too early to judge him and frankly most wrs in general until after their second year. Many make a big jump in year two. There is a lot of potential there, obviously he has good body control and is strong. The lack of separation is something that can't be ignored though, I have watched him all season and it's troubling. Let's see if he improves his route running and if they do more to get him open as time goes on.

I agree with this.  Moulds looked like a bust until breaking out in his third year.

[Kelly to Allen]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I agree with this.  Moulds looked like a bust until breaking out in his third year.

 

Coleman looks light years better than Moulds first 2 years. Moulds was in danger of being cut. Wade Phillips told him in his 3rd mini camp if he didn't win a starting job they would cut him. 

 

Moulds then played basketball non stop all summer, lost like 25lbs, added a weight lifting regiment and exploded into the greatest wr I've ever seen in a bills uniform. 

 

There was a time from 98-01 maybe where he was the second best wr in the NFL behind Moss 

 

He was Jamar chase level talented 

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Brian Thomas Jr a 'good' receiver is crazy underselling what he did this yr

 

He's 3rd in the league in yards and 16th in targets as a rookie

 

I'm not sure if this is a point of disagreement or a semantic issue.  

 

I don't toss around words like "great" lightly or quickly.  He had a good year.  We've seen a number of rookies who have a good year, or a couple of good years, then fade for one or another reason (maybe no fault of their own).  If you want to call Thomas great because he had a rookie year with a lot of yards and receptions that's fine.  It's not how I use the word.

My point was also to look at context.  Jax had little run game (26 in the league), a good passing QB, and after injuries, basically Thomas or who? at receiver.  So naturally he got a lot of targets.  I don't want to take away from the guy, like I said I think he's good, but he had a team situation that favored his receiving production and the development of chemistry with Lawrence (who had Thomas or who? to throw to). If he weren't good, he couldn't have taken advantage of his favorable situation, but I'm not down with calling him great because he was in a favorable situation.

If that isn't clear, consider an example of Zay Flowers.  I think he's a good WR.  His rookie year, he had 77 receptions on 108 targets for 858 yds, 71% of everything thrown at him.  He was also on a team that was #30 for passing attempts and #1 for rushing attempts.  He's followed it up with a better year, with more receptions, over 1000 receiving yards, more yards/reception - but he's still on a team which is 31st in the league for passing attempts and 2nd for rushing attempts.  So that limits his production.  

Edited yesterday at 06:22 AM by Beck Water

[FireChans]

11 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

These are all valid points. Obviously as @Beck Water said, he is used to Josh's velocity & timing. Going from 17 to Trubisky/White is a huge drop off.  Hopefully he amps it up in the playoffs because we're going to need him.  On a side note, Keon leads all rookie wrs with a 19.3 yds/ reception avg.  When he does get one, it's a chunk play.

BTJ has done just fine going from Lawrence to Mac Jones FWIW.

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

My point was also to look at context.  Jax had little run game (26 in the league), a good passing QB

Mac Jones played almost half the season. He had 22 less attempts than Lawrence did on the season

 

The Bills passed the ball 26 times less than the Jags did on the year.

 

?????

Edited yesterday at 06:31 AM by FireChans

[Beck Water]

21 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Coleman looks light years better than Moulds first 2 years. Moulds was in danger of being cut. Wade Phillips told him in his 3rd mini camp if he didn't win a starting job they would cut him. 

 

Moulds then played basketball non stop all summer, lost like 25lbs, added a weight lifting regiment and exploded into the greatest wr I've ever seen in a bills uniform. 

 

There was a time from 98-01 maybe where he was the second best wr in the NFL behind Moss 

 

He was Jamar chase level talented 

 

I'd like to point to Khalil Shakir as an example of this.  As a rookie, he had trouble seeing the field and no it wasn't because McDermott had some inexplicable hatred of him.  He had a 50% catch % and 2 scored drops on 20 targets. 

Over the summer, between his first and second season, he trained with .....funny you should mention him, Eric Moulds!  Moulds had him do things like catch balls without gloves to force him to focus.  The Shakir we saw in year 2 was a huge improvement who caught almost everything thrown near him, 39 receptions on 45 targets or 87%,  and that hasn't fallen much as his targets have more than doubled.

There's no reason Coleman can't improve in a similar fashion if he wants to and he puts in the work.  He's got the athleticism and the body control and the eye judgement.  And then he won't be asked to take 97% of the snaps in a meaningless game and take crap for it on twitter (which I didn't see because I don't visit the twitters except to look at specific people I follow, like Bills media.

Edited yesterday at 06:34 AM by Beck Water

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Mac Jones played almost half the season. He had 22 less attempts than Lawrence did on the season

 

The Bills passed the ball 26 times less than the Jags did on the year.

 

?????

fwiw you're quoting someone who said BTJ got a 'ton' of targets (16th in the league) which produced a 'good' season (3rd in receiving yards in the NFL)

 

in defense of WR76 Keon Coleman

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

fwiw you're quoting someone who said BTJ got a 'ton' of targets (16th in the league) which produced a 'good' season (3rd in receiving yards in the NFL)

 

in defense of WR76 Keon Coleman

You have to consider the context. Zay Flowers was only on a roster that passed for 4172 yards this season which is why his numbers were good, but not great. 
 

BTJ was on a roster that passed for 3700 yards total, which is why his numbers were so good but he wasn’t great.

Edited yesterday at 07:02 AM by FireChans

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You have to consider the context. Zay Flowers was only on a roster that passed for 4172 yards this season which is why his numbers were good, but not great. 
 

BTJ was on a roster that passed for 3700 yards total, which is why his numbers were so good but he wasn’t great.

yeah catching those Mac Jones passes just really inflates your stats