Any audiophiles in here?

[BillsFan4]

Oh, and eventually adding a subwoofer is something you should definitely consider. It can make a huge impact on overall sound quality. I’m not talking shaking the room. It just adds so much more depth to the music and makes the speakers sound better/cleaner. They can focus on more of the mids + highs and let the subwoofer handle the bass. A good subwoofer can make a $250 speaker sound like a $1000 speaker.

 

You don’t even need to spend a lot if it’s just for music. Something like an REO speedwoofer would be great for music. Or even an entry level SVS sealed subwoofer (but there are better choices IMO).

[davefan66]

44 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

ok cool. Those are realistic expectations, especially when talking bookshelf speakers. lol

 

I would say to check out the Chane L series. Their A series and 700 series are also great speakers. But the L series is their speaker meant for the most critical listening. They use high end speaker components (woofers, tweeters, crossover parts, cabinets) and are very reasonably priced.

 

 

 

https://www.chanemusiccinema.com

 

Another good one to check out is Ascend Acoustics. They make some really nice speakers that would be classified as detailed with good instrument separation. Especially any of their speakers with the RAAL tweeters. If you are looking for exquisite detail, the raal tweeter’s are great.

 

https://ascendacoustics.com

 

even some of the lower end ribbon or AMT tweeters are great for detail.

 

Emotiva is a good more budget oriented speaker brand. Their AMT tweeters provide a lot of detail.

 

Problem is that all of these speakers are direct to customer online retail. They all have free in home trials of some sort. But IMO they are where the true value is at. You typically get a LOT more speaker for your money.

 

Typically, the better the woofer and tweeter quality, the better the music quality. Also, solid well built speaker cabinets matter. The more inert/dead, the better. 
Then crossover design also matters a lot. I don’t buy into the high end crossover components being all that worthwhile but better crossover components don’t hurt.

 

you usually get higher quality speaker components and cabinets with online speaker manufacturers. Retail speakers are often built quite cheap.

 

If you really want to get a lot of speaker for your money you could do something like an “assemble it yourself” speaker kit.

 

For ex:

 

https://www.css-audio.com/online-store/Kits-c29751664

 

that’s a great one. Any of the Criton or Criton X kits would blow you away. I believe they still sell the cabinet flat packs too so you just glue it together basically.

 

There are other AIY kits out there too from DIY sound group, Parts Express and others. 
 

 

Also, to really get the most out of your speakers they need to be set up properly. Assuming you don’t have a measurement microphone and know how to use Room EQ wizard, the best you can do is play with the placement (distance between them, toe in, toe out, how far from the wall, etc) and see what sounds best

 

and wall/room treatments can also make a big difference when it comes to instrument separation and stuff like that. 

Will definitely take a look at these.

 

I listen to everything from hard rock/metal to rap to classical and everything in between. Instrument nuance is critical 

[BillsFan4]

17 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Will definitely take a look at these.

 

I listen to everything from hard rock/metal to rap to classical and everything in between. Instrument nuance is critical 

Oh, I forgot to mention something that might help you at least narrow down what you like.

 

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VqX3atei6Ja/speakercompare/default.aspx

 

it’s an online speaker comparison tool on Crutchfield’s site. You need to use a pair of headphones on their list or rent a listening kit from them. The cheapest headphones I found for purchase on their list are the Audio Technica ATH-M20x. 
It’s obviously not a perfect way to listen but it does allow you to at least get an idea of the speaker’s sound.

 

Id still recommend going with an internet direct speaker company over a place like crutchfield (way better value). But crutchfield does have in home trials and flat shipping rates to send items back.

 

 

[Augie]

33 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Oh, I forgot to mention something that might help you at least narrow down what you like.

 

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VqX3atei6Ja/speakercompare/default.aspx

 

it’s an online speaker comparison tool on Crutchfield’s site. You need to use a pair of headphones on their list or rent a listening kit from them. The cheapest headphones I found for purchase on their list are the Audio Technica ATH-M20x. 
It’s obviously not a perfect way to listen but it does allow you to at least get an idea of the speaker’s sound.

 

Id still recommend going with an internet direct speaker company over a place like crutchfield (way better value). But crutchfield does have in home trials and flat shipping rates to send items back.

 

 

 

Not audio, but we got a 77” LG OLED TV thru Crutchfield.  They had the same TV at Best Buy, but for about $200 more, and I was going to have to rent a van to get it home. Crutchfield was not only cheaper, but it was delivered free directly to my front door with none of the extra hassle or expense. That was pretty sweet. 

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

On 1/7/2025 at 6:35 PM, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Wrong thread?  Or you got up on the wrong side of the bottle?

Both.  First, this isn't my fault- OP titled it 'Any Audiophiles in Here', then said, 'Any suggestions?  Sound quality really isn't terribly important here...'

 

It's kinda a nuts question.  
 

Apologies if my lid got blown but Jesus...

[Pete]

On 1/12/2025 at 10:36 AM, davefan66 said:

What speakers do you recommend?  
 

Love my 80’s Polk Audio speakers. Have a newer pair that I like, don’t love. Those were cheap for backups.

 

Listened to Klipsch, KEF and Wharfedale speakers a year or so ago at The Speaker Shop. Liked the Wharfedale the best, but wasn’t in love with them.

ELAC Debut 3.0 DB63-BK Bookshelf Speakers $449 on Amazon

Alpha P5 $399 Amazon

Wharfdale Lintons $1500

 

 

[Just in Atlanta]

Sonos for convenience, KEF for depth of sound. 

 

I have KEF LSXs in the livingroom and they sound amazing. Run them via Airplay, which sound slightly fuller than Bluetooth and the music doesn't get interrupted. 

I don't think you need audiophile-quality sound for the shitter. A Sonos Move or One should do fine. I have one in the bedroom and porch. 

 

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Sonos for convenience, KEF for depth of sound. 

 

I have KEF LSXs in the livingroom and they sound amazing. Run them via Airplay, which sound slightly fuller than Bluetooth and the music doesn't get interrupted. 

I don't think you need audiophile-quality sound for the shitter. A Sonos Move or One should do fine. I have one in the bedroom and porch. 

 

 

That’s what we have on the main floor, Sonos for music and KEF for the surround sound. I’m not sure what’s in the basement, but the acoustics are great down there compared to the high ceilings and wood floors where we generally live. We are actually looking for ways to add fabrics and rugs to dampen things. Even the best equipment benefits from good acoustic surroundings. That’s why they have symphony halls. 

 

Acoustics in the shitter also benefit from some dampening. 

[rusty shackleford]

I said it earlier and so did a bunch of others, that for a bathroom higher quality doesn’t matter much. But getting back to audiophile topic… in a good acoustic room, once you get into the world of AV separates, a whole new audio world opens up and it’s easy to go down a rabbit hole.

Edited January 15 by rusty shackleford

[davefan66]

20 hours ago, Pete said:

ELAC Debut 3.0 DB63-BK Bookshelf Speakers $449 on Amazon

Alpha P5 $399 Amazon

Wharfdale Lintons $1500

 

 

Listened to the Wharfedale 12.2 at a local shop.   Very nice, was my most likely buy if I did at the time. Lacked a little warmth that I get from my current speakers. Darn good speakers at a good price.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, davefan66 said:

Listened to the Wharfedale 12.2 at a local shop.   Very nice, was my most likely buy if I did at the time. Lacked a little warmth that I get from my current speakers. Darn good speakers at a good price.

Awsesome.  ADS L810 is my favorite vintage speaker.  It can go head to head with all of the above, even the Wharfedale.  Wharfedale has higher end speakers up to $8000

 

[rusty shackleford]

On 1/12/2025 at 3:34 PM, BillsFan4 said:

ok cool. Those are realistic expectations, especially when talking bookshelf speakers. lol

 

I would say to check out the Chane L series. Their A series and 700 series are also great speakers. But the L series is their speaker meant for the most critical listening. They use high end speaker components (woofers, tweeters, crossover parts, cabinets) and are very reasonably priced.

 

 

 

https://www.chanemusiccinema.com

 

Another good one to check out is Ascend Acoustics. They make some really nice speakers that would be classified as detailed with good instrument separation. Especially any of their speakers with the RAAL tweeters. If you are looking for exquisite detail, the raal tweeter’s are great.

 

https://ascendacoustics.com

 

even some of the lower end ribbon or AMT tweeters are great for detail.

 

Emotiva is a good more budget oriented speaker brand. Their AMT tweeters provide a lot of detail.

 

Problem is that all of these speakers are direct to customer online retail. They all have free in home trials of some sort. But IMO they are where the true value is at. You typically get a LOT more speaker for your money.

 

Typically, the better the woofer and tweeter quality, the better the music quality. Also, solid well built speaker cabinets matter. The more inert/dead, the better. 
Then crossover design also matters a lot. I don’t buy into the high end crossover components being all that worthwhile but better crossover components don’t hurt.

 

you usually get higher quality speaker components and cabinets with online speaker manufacturers. Retail speakers are often built quite cheap.

 

If you really want to get a lot of speaker for your money you could do something like an “assemble it yourself” speaker kit.

 

For ex:

 

https://www.css-audio.com/online-store/Kits-c29751664

 

that’s a great one. Any of the Criton or Criton X kits would blow you away. I believe they still sell the cabinet flat packs too so you just glue it together basically.

 

There are other AIY kits out there too from DIY sound group, Parts Express and others. 
 

 

Also, to really get the most out of your speakers they need to be set up properly. Assuming you don’t have a measurement microphone and know how to use Room EQ wizard, the best you can do is play with the placement (distance between them, toe in, toe out, how far from the wall, etc) and see what sounds best

 

and wall/room treatments can also make a big difference when it comes to instrument separation and stuff like that. 

I’ve really come to enjoy the sound of the AMT tweeters that are in my dedicated home theater room setup. They are Golden Ears and they came up with some in house marketing name for them, something like folded ribbons. Anchored by tower fronts and their largest center with bookshelf’s and satellites to round out a full 7.2.4 system. They seem to combine the high volume and efficiency of some horn speakers with the warmth and detail of more traditional domes. Works out great for both movies and critical 2 channel music listening in a theater setup.

[BillsFan4]

11 hours ago, rusty shackleford said:

I’ve really come to enjoy the sound of the AMT tweeters that are in my dedicated home theater room setup. They are Golden Ears and they came up with some in house marketing name for them, something like folded ribbons. Anchored by tower fronts and their largest center with bookshelf’s and satellites to round out a full 7.2.4 system. They seem to combine the high volume and efficiency of some horn speakers with the warmth and detail of more traditional domes. Works out great for both movies and critical 2 channel music listening in a theater setup.

Yeah I love my AMT tweeters too! They aren’t on the level of RAAL’s (which are rightfully priced much higher) but they are damn good. I think I like them better than most dome tweeters (except the high end stuff). I also love compression drivers for home theater. Just more “oomph”. But the detail of the AMT is better and they work really well for home theater too.

 

I bought a pair of Emotiva speakers with the AMT tweeters during the pandemic back in 2020. I’ve since upgraded but I still use them because I love the sound. Great speakers for the money.

 

 

Sounds like a nice setup you have! I’m at 5.2.2 but a lot of my money went into the subwoofers (and I don’t regret it at all! By FAR the biggest upgrade to my system AINEC). My ceiling height is also like 7ft in my theater room so I don’t really even need the on ceiling speakers. I just did it to be able to use the ATMOS codecs. lol 

 

What are you running for subwoofers?

 

Any future upgrades planned for your system?

 

 

I eventually want to upgrade my front sound stage (L/R/C) and add more subwoofers. I’m thinking of either JBL pro cinema speakers up front or DIY (something like the Titans from DIY sound group). Might add in a couple DIY subwoofers from GSG audio too.

 

I’m looking for this from my next upgrades:

 

 

😂

 

I’m more into home theater though and not an audiophile by any means. 

 

My dream is to someday own JTR subwoofers and speakers but I doubt it’ll happen. Especially now that JTR is going to be raising prices again (by a lot).

Their “entry level” subwoofer is now going to be like $4500+ (probably $5k with shipping) and I’d want 2. I can’t justify that type of money for subwoofers. I’ll probably just go the DIY route (or “assemble it yourself” with a kit) if I ever add more.

 

I already have two 18” pro audio subwoofers from PSA, so they can already get pretty violent. PSA is about the best value on the market for subwoofers if you’re ever looking to add. I don’t even think you could DIY an equal subwoofer for less, which is crazy.

 

anyway, sorry for my long response. I love talking A/V! lol

[rusty shackleford]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Yeah I love my AMT tweeters too! They aren’t on the level of RAAL’s (which are rightfully priced much higher) but they are damn good. I think I like them better than most dome tweeters (except the high end stuff). I also love compression drivers for home theater. Just more “oomph”. But the detail of the AMT is better and they work really well for home theater too.

 

I bought a pair of Emotiva speakers with the AMT tweeters during the pandemic back in 2020. I’ve since upgraded but I still use them because I love the sound. Great speakers for the money.

 

 

Sounds like a nice setup you have! I’m at 5.2.2 but a lot of my money went into the subwoofers (and I don’t regret it at all! By FAR the biggest upgrade to my system AINEC). My ceiling height is also like 7ft in my theater room so I don’t really even need the on ceiling speakers. I just did it to be able to use the ATMOS codecs. lol 

 

What are you running for subwoofers?

 

Any future upgrades planned for your system?

 

 

I eventually want to upgrade my front sound stage (L/R/C) and add more subwoofers. I’m thinking of either JBL pro cinema speakers up front or DIY (something like the Titans from DIY sound group). Might add in a couple DIY subwoofers from GSG audio too.

 

I’m looking for this from my next upgrades:

 

 

😂

 

I’m more into home theater though and not an audiophile by any means. 

 

My dream is to someday own JTR subwoofers and speakers but I doubt it’ll happen. Especially now that JTR is going to be raising prices again (by a lot).

Their “entry level” subwoofer is now going to be like $4500+ (probably $5k with shipping) and I’d want 2. I can’t justify that type of money for subwoofers. I’ll probably just go the DIY route (or “assemble it yourself” with a kit) if I ever add more.

 

I already have two 18” pro audio subwoofers from PSA, so they can already get pretty violent. PSA is about the best value on the market for subwoofers if you’re ever looking to add. I don’t even think you could DIY an equal subwoofer for less, which is crazy.

 

anyway, sorry for my long response. I love talking A/V! lol

Yeah allocating a good amount of total budget to the subs always pays off. I'm running 3 SVS SB4000's. The only real upgrade I've considered is a 4th sub to position one in each corner for a bit better balance (currently 2 up front flanking the front speakers and 1 in the center back). I have the 3 subs running though a miniDSP processor. I had the Speaker Shop come out to calibrate them... ended taking all day to get it right. I'm running a combination of Parasound, Emotiva, and Outlaw amps controlled by a now aging (and a possible upgrade area) Marantz pre/pro (but all its features and codecs are still current).

 

I still need to finish the non home theater area of my basement with a bar/lounge area. If anything, I would rather spend money completing the whole basement project then upgrading equipment for awhile. I have actually been floating the idea of upgrading my living room system as I've been spending a lot more time there than the home theater lately. I replaced a dying 65 inch Panasonic plasma with a new 77 inch LG OLED recently and have been casually watching there instead of the basement. It would be nice to get rid of my large Outlaw sub in the living room and upgrade my bookshelves to full range towers... but that would also mean upgrading from my Denon receiver to something with a lot more oomph. 

[BillsFan4]

On 1/16/2025 at 11:15 AM, rusty shackleford said:

Yeah allocating a good amount of total budget to the subs always pays off. I'm running 3 SVS SB4000's. The only real upgrade I've considered is a 4th sub to position one in each corner for a bit better balance (currently 2 up front flanking the front speakers and 1 in the center back). I have the 3 subs running though a miniDSP processor. I had the Speaker Shop come out to calibrate them... ended taking all day to get it right. I'm running a combination of Parasound, Emotiva, and Outlaw amps controlled by a now aging (and a possible upgrade area) Marantz pre/pro (but all its features and codecs are still current).

 

I still need to finish the non home theater area of my basement with a bar/lounge area. If anything, I would rather spend money completing the whole basement project then upgrading equipment for awhile. I have actually been floating the idea of upgrading my living room system as I've been spending a lot more time there than the home theater lately. I replaced a dying 65 inch Panasonic plasma with a new 77 inch LG OLED recently and have been casually watching there instead of the basement. It would be nice to get rid of my large Outlaw sub in the living room and upgrade my bookshelves to full range towers... but that would also mean upgrading from my Denon receiver to something with a lot more oomph. 

nice! You did it proper then. I have a MiniDSP as well but I attempted my own speaker + subwoofer calibration using REW (room EQ wizard. It’s a free program for PC) and a calibrated UMIK-1 (measurement microphone). There’s another free PC program called MSO (multi sub optimizer) that works really well for 3 or more subwoofers but I haven’t used that one. Trying to learn REW has been “fun” enough… lol. 

 

yeah I’d prioritize finishing your basement too. Going from 1 sub to 2 is a big upgrade. But then after that the upgrades in db’s are smaller. You need to double the amount of subwoofers just to gain 3-6db. So from 1 to 2 gets you 3-6db. Then from 2 to 4 gets you another 3-6db. Then from 4 to 8 gets you another 3-6db, etc.

It’s more about smoothing out the bass at that point. But if you have a good calibration it should already be pretty smooth seat to seat.

 

If you add any more subs, I would recommend putting one near field. Thats been my biggest noticeable change I made. I have one of the subs firing right into the back of my chair. It’s just a different experience.

 

Do you have any custom curves for the miniDSP? It’s amazing what you can do with a miniDSP! I’m still learning.

 

Have you ever used BEQ? (Bass EQ. You need a miniDSP to use it).

If not you should really try it. Guarantee it will completely change your movie watching experience.

 

There’s a whole community of people on AVS forums making custom BEQ profiles for every movie out there. They add back in all the missing bass stripped away in movie soundtracks released on blu ray (especially the sub 20hz stuff).

 

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/bass-eq-for-filtered-movies.2995212/

 

you can see the new BEQ profile of the movies here. The dotted line is the old bass profile. The solid line is the new one. 

[rusty shackleford]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

nice! You did it proper then. I have a MiniDSP as well but I attempted my own speaker + subwoofer calibration using REW (room EQ wizard. It’s a free program for PC) and a calibrated UMIK-1 (measurement microphone). There’s another free PC program called MSO (multi sub optimizer) that works really well for 3 or more subwoofers but I haven’t used that one. Trying to learn REW has been “fun” enough… lol. 

 

yeah I’d prioritize finishing your basement too. Going from 1 sub to 2 is a big upgrade. But then after that the upgrades in db’s are smaller. You need to double the amount of subwoofers just to gain 3-6db. So from 1 to 2 gets you 3-6db. Then from 2 to 4 gets you another 3-6db. Then from 4 to 8 gets you another 3-6db, etc.

It’s more about smoothing out the bass at that point. But if you have a good calibration it should already be pretty smooth seat to seat.

 

If you add any more subs, I would recommend putting one near field. Thats been my biggest noticeable change I made. I have one of the subs firing right into the back of my chair. It’s just a different experience.

 

Do you have any custom curves for the miniDSP? It’s amazing what you can do with a miniDSP! I’m still learning.

 

Have you ever used BEQ? (Bass EQ. You need a miniDSP to use it).

If not you should really try it. Guarantee it will completely change your movie watching experience.

 

There’s a whole community of people on AVS forums making custom BEQ profiles for every movie out there. They add back in all the missing bass stripped away in movie soundtracks released on blu ray (especially the sub 20hz stuff).

 

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/bass-eq-for-filtered-movies.2995212/

 

you can see the new BEQ profile of the movies here. The dotted line is the old bass profile. The solid line is the new one. 

I haven't messed with any of the settings since they set it up for me. They thought it was going to be a quick 1 hour type thing, but then took all day to get it where it is now... and it's actually not that much better that what I was able to do just with an SPL meter, test tones, adjusting the phase and delay on each sub then running Audyssey in the processor (and they actually confirmed that, comparing to the "before" measurements they took). They ended not even charging me for the time spent, just for the processor... I bought a lot of stuff through them over the years though.

 

At my old house, I had a large ported SVS sub right behind the couch with the back wall just another foot away... That created some good tactile feel to the bass, especially in a more closed off living room, but not too much far off what I'm getting in my home theater now... especially considering it is ~1,200 sq ft open floor plan with high ceilings. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 1/2/2025 at 2:08 PM, JimBob2232 said:

Ok.  not really looking for high quality here...but im pretty ignorant on this.

 

I'm remodeling a bathroom and want to add a speaker(s) in the ceiling.  I'd like to be able to play music/podcasts/etc from my iPhone over the speakers.  My wife and I would both like to use our phones.   Thats about the end of my requirements and knowledge.

 

I was thinking about an in-ceiling bluetooth speaker.  I keep reading online about maybe a speaker/amp solution being better and/or easier.  I do have a nearby closet if I need an amp, but would prefer it to be small.  

 

Any suggestions?  Sound quality really isn't terribly important here...

Systems like Sonos, Samsung, Denon, etc have Bluetooth speakers systems that can run off a central soundbar or amp and be expanded to multiple rooms where rooms can also work independently of each other.