Next week’s Pats game - interesting

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

This is a great point.

 

@dave mcbride should Drew Lock have thrown a couple more picks instead of balling out? He's getting paid a lot of money and it would be better for his organization for him to suck and lose more. Sure, he's almost certainly not going to be a Giant next year, but it was selfish of him to play well, right?

They should have handed the ball off more and not decided instead to feature their best player (by far). Nabers is the best receiver from this draft and a total stud. That is a choice that Daboll made. And here is the potential fruit of this decision -- falling to #8 in draft order if the Eagles rest all their key starters beyond Barkley (which they should and probably will do) and lose to the Giants:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6025775/2024/12/30/giants-2025-nfl-draft-pick-outlook/

 

'But after Sunday’s 45-33 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, the future of the franchise is far less certain.

 

The victory helped dropped the Giants from the top spot in the draft order down to No. 4. We don’t know if that’s where they’ll end up picking (more on that in a bit), but we do know they no longer control their own destiny as it relates to the draft order. And that means finding the quarterback of the future could be that much harder.

 

Will they have to trade up to make it happen? With a roster filled with holes, that is not exactly an enticing proposition, even if it becomes necessary. And even if they want to trade up, will they get the opportunity? Giants fans don’t need reminding that the team tried and ultimately failed to move up in the 2024 draft and pick Drake Maye.

 

Giants fans also don’t need reminding that the reason their team was picking at No. 6 last and not inside the top three with an opportunity to select Maye or Jayden Daniels was because they won three meaningless games in a row late last season behind QB Tommy DeVito.

 

Now, after another mostly meaningless win, it’s hard not to feel like history is repeating itself. Was Sunday’s win a morale boost? Sure. Was it what’s best for the franchise’s future? Probably not.

 

It’ll be a while before we know the price for sure, but it’s possible the ramifications of Sunday’s win could be felt by this franchise for a long, long time.

...

[I]t’s still hard to dismiss the notion that the Giants landing their franchise quarterback will be that much harder now. Of course, there’s still the possibility that the team can move back up the board before the season ends.

 

While the Giants sit at No. 4, according to Tankathon, their final draft position will come down to what happens in Week 18. Remember, strength of schedule is the deciding tiebreaker for draft order, and that’s working against the Giants. Because their strength of schedule is superior to the NFL’s other three-win teams (the New England Patriots, the Tennessee Titans and the Cleveland Browns), the Giants need help to climb back into the top three of the draft order.

 

But they’d first need to “help” themselves with a loss to the Philadelphia Eagles in Week 18. That’s no guarantee since there is a high likelihood the Eagles will be resting their starters. Philadelphia clinched the NFC East on Sunday and is locked into the No. 2 seed.

...

It’s also worth at least mentioning that if the Giants win against Philadelphia and get to four wins, they could fall even further down the board. Five other teams are sitting at four wins, and the Giants’ strength of schedule is better than four of them.'

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by dave mcbride

[FireChans]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

They should have handed the ball off more and not featured their best player by far. Nabers is the best receiver from this draft and a total stud. And here is the potential fruit of this decision - falling to #8 in draft order if the Eagles rest all their key starters beyond Barkley (which they should and probably will do:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6025775/2024/12/30/giants-2025-nfl-draft-pick-outlook/

 

'But after Sunday’s 45-33 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, the future of the franchise is far less certain.

 

The victory helped dropped the Giants from the top spot in the draft order down to No. 4. We don’t know if that’s where they’ll end up picking (more on that in a bit), but we do know they no longer control their own destiny as it relates to the draft order. And that means finding the quarterback of the future could be that much harder.

 

Will they have to trade up to make it happen? With a roster filled with holes, that is not exactly an enticing proposition, even if it becomes necessary. And even if they want to trade up, will they get the opportunity? Giants fans don’t need reminding that the team tried and ultimately failed to move up in the 2024 draft and pick Drake Maye.

 

Giants fans also don’t need reminding that the reason their team was picking at No. 6 last and not inside the top three with an opportunity to select Maye or Jayden Daniels was because they won three meaningless games in a row late last season behind QB Tommy DeVito.

 

Now, after another mostly meaningless win, it’s hard not to feel like history is repeating itself. Was Sunday’s win a morale boost? Sure. Was it what’s best for the franchise’s future? Probably not.

 

It’ll be a while before we know the price for sure, but it’s possible the ramifications of Sunday’s win could be felt by this franchise for a long, long time.

...

[I]t’s still hard to dismiss the notion that the Giants landing their franchise quarterback will be that much harder now. Of course, there’s still the possibility that the team can move back up the board before the season ends.

 

While the Giants sit at No. 4, according to Tankathon, their final draft position will come down to what happens in Week 18. Remember, strength of schedule is the deciding tiebreaker for draft order, and that’s working against the Giants. Because their strength of schedule is superior to the NFL’s other three-win teams (the New England Patriots, the Tennessee Titans and the Cleveland Browns), the Giants need help to climb back into the top three of the draft order.

 

But they’d first need to “help” themselves with a loss to the Philadelphia Eagles in Week 18. That’s no guarantee since there is a high likelihood the Eagles will be resting their starters. Philadelphia clinched the NFC East on Sunday and is locked into the No. 2 seed.

...

It’s also worth at least mentioning that if the Giants win against Philadelphia and get to four wins, they could fall even further down the board. Five other teams are sitting at four wins, and the Giants’ strength of schedule is better than four of them.'

 

So you are on record. Drew Lock was selfish for playing well and throwing to Malik Nabers because it hurt the draft position of the Giants.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, FireChans said:

So you are on record. Drew Lock was selfish for playing well and throwing to Malik Nabers because it hurt the draft position of the Giants.

No, not Lock or Nabers. You misunderstood completely what I wrote. Daboll was selfish. Players are obviously going to play hard. It's the coaches who have the ability to dictate how the game will be played. 

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

So you are on record. Drew Lock was selfish for playing well and throwing to Malik Nabers because it hurt the draft position of the Giants.

Also, again, I guarantee you that virtually all Giants fans agree with me.

[BRH]

27 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Also, when we were in the drought, I figured draft position didn’t matter anyway because we were going to screw up the pick regardless.  😃 

 

And back then it seemed that whenever there were X number of sure-fire blue-chip first-round prospects, our draft position, no matter what it was, was always X+1, and our front office was too incompetent to find the right guy from the rest of the pool (see, e.g., Leodis McKelvin, Aaron Maybin, EJ Manuel, etc.).

 

12 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

No, not Lock or Nabers. You misunderstood completely what I wrote. Daboll was selfish. Players are obviously going to play hard. It's the coaches who have the ability to dictate how the game will be played. 

 

Which tells me that Daboll knows he's on his way out and that was his FU to the organization.

[Mat68]

19 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Giants’ victory today was a fireable offense for Daboll — totally selfish, and I mean that. It calls to mind the Jets beating the Rams in 2020, which caused them to lose Trevor Lawrence for Zach Wilson.

Are the Patriots a smarter organization than the Giants?

 

Why you dont keep coaches on the hot seat.  NE is the only team with a QB so not a big deal.  I do not see how you keep Schoen or Daboll after each year they have gotten worst and look the same each season.  Saquan breaking Dickersons record vs NYG would be hilarious. 

[HappyDays]

38 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

No, not Lock or Nabers. You misunderstood completely what I wrote. Daboll was selfish. Players are obviously going to play hard. It's the coaches who have the ability to dictate how the game will be played. 

 

This falls on the owner IMO. Mara should have fired Daboll several weeks ago and required the interim coach to start Tommy Devito if his intention was to tank. Daboll is not going to sacrifice his own career when he knows there's a good chance he's gone after this season. He's doing what he can to prove he deserves an OC position somewhere else.

[njbuff]

The only young GUARANTEED superstar ever was Mario Lemieux back in the day.

 

The Pittsburgh Penguins were the ones that started all this tanking crap in 1984 and changed the landscape of tanking forever across sports.

 

But the NFL hasn’t adopted to the tanking process in terms of having a lottery, but we know players and teams have been told to tank over the last 40 years.

[Beck Water]

19 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

I feel like this is pretty immaterial as the Giants need a QB and the Pats don't.

 

Not at all.  The Pats can dangle the #1 overall pick to the highest bidder and bring home a boatload of picks from a team that wants to jump the Pats 

[Gregg]

Doug Kyed on X: "Patriots HC Jerod Mayo says on WEEI that everything is on the table and Drake Maye could be sat this Sunday, but that would have nothing to do with the hit Maye took against the Chargers." / X

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

Doug Kyed on X: "Patriots HC Jerod Mayo says on WEEI that everything is on the table and Drake Maye could be sat this Sunday, but that would have nothing to do with the hit Maye took against the Chargers." / X

It sounds like the Pats may be doing some organizationally smart thinking. Winning is a terrible outcome for them.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It sounds like the Pats may be doing some organizationally smart thinking. Winning is a terrible outcome for them.

 

The difference between the 1st and say the 4th or 5th (if they win) for EVERY round of the draft is huge.

The Pats front office will try their best to dump the game to the Bills 2nd stringers.

 

As a Bills fan, I want the Bills to win BUT won't be too sad if the opposite happens.

[Don Otreply]

18 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Two of my best friends and another good friend are very knowledgeable Pats fans, and they are thrilled that this might happen. The Pats are sure to trade down and get a boatload of picks.

I imagine they are enthusiastic with this opportunity, but if the coaches can’t “team build” it will be off lesser use, the freaking jets have what is considered to be lots of talent, but they couldn’t make a team out of it,  we shall see I guess, 

[Gregg]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The difference between the 1st and say the 4th or 5th (if they win) for EVERY round of the draft is huge.

The Pats front office will try their best to dump the game to the Bills 2nd stringers.

 

As a Bills fan, I want the Bills to win BUT won't be too sad if the opposite happens.

 

From a Bills POV it's a glorified preseason game. The only thing I want is for the Bills to get out of this game with no injuries. Win or lose doesn't really matter.

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

The difference between the 1st and say the 4th or 5th (if they win) for EVERY round of the draft is huge.

The Pats front office will try their best to dump the game to the Bills 2nd stringers.

 

As a Bills fan, I want the Bills to win BUT won't be too sad if the opposite happens.

Exactly — the “every round” factor is huge and not discussed enough among fans.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

21 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Giants’ victory today was a fireable offense for Daboll — totally selfish, and I mean that. It calls to mind the Jets beating the Rams in 2020, which caused them to lose Trevor Lawrence for Zach Wilson.

Are the Patriots a smarter organization than the Giants?

 

 

The draft is a crapshoot anyway. 

 

The 2022 Texans won their meaningless week 18 game 32-31 after converting a 4th and 20 for a TD with <1 minute left and succeeded on a 2 point conversion. 

 

That cost them the #1 overall pick.

 

They ended up with CJ Stroud at #2 instead of Bryce Young at #1...

[Ya Digg?]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

No, not Lock or Nabers. You misunderstood completely what I wrote. Daboll was selfish. Players are obviously going to play hard. It's the coaches who have the ability to dictate how the game will be played. 

Also, again, I guarantee you that virtually all Giants fans agree with me.

There’s a misunderstanding because your statements contradict each other. Calling a coach selfish because he won a game but not the players doesn’t make sense. It’s obvious you are only looking at this from a fan’s POV and not a coach or player. Of course the fans want to see losses at this point, but as someone who WILL get another job in the league, why would Daboll do anything but try to win games? He’s not going to sabotage future interviews and job employment and intentionally lose games 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Ya Digg?

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Ya Digg? said:

There’s a misunderstanding because your statements contradict each other. Calling a coach selfish because he won a game but not the players doesn’t make sense. It’s obvious you are only looking at this from a fan’s POV and not a coach or player. Of course the fans want to see losses at this point, but as someone who WILL get another job in the league, why would Daboll do anything but try to win games? He’s not going to sabotage future interviews and job employment and I tentionally lose games 

Not contradicting myself at all. The player’s responsibility is to play as hard as possible and in any event it’s hard to avoid doing that given the physical intensity and violence of an NFL game. A coach needs to focus on the big-picture outlook for the organization and do what is strategically wisest for his employer. Do not be surprised if Drake Maye sits next week. 

[stlbills13]

If I were the Patriots I may sit Maye next week even if I wasn't in the running for the 1st overall pick. He's going to be good. I wouldn't risk his health even if it's a super small chance of a long injury. 

 

I hope the Bills win every game we play. But we just must stay healthy heading into the playoffs. 

[Boatdrinks]

39 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

From a Bills POV it's a glorified preseason game. The only thing I want is for the Bills to get out of this game with no injuries. Win or lose doesn't really matter.

That’s about it. 13 wins in the bank plus the 2 seed. Aside from Josh keeping his consecutive starts streak alive, this amounts to a bye week. 

[Billsfanatic8989]

Even if they get 1st OA and trade out, what are the odds they hit on a HC/GM/picks, and are a thorn in our side in 2026 and beyond? Not good. They are a mess.

 

 

27 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

The draft is a crapshoot anyway. 

 

The 2022 Texans won their meaningless week 18 game 32-31 after converting a 4th and 20 for a TD with <1 minute left and succeeded on a 2 point conversion. 

 

That cost them the #1 overall pick.

 

They ended up with CJ Stroud at #2 instead of Bryce Young at #1...

Jury is very much out on how good Stroud is. He has not been good this year.