Next week’s Pats game - interesting

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

It would have to be calculated if they want Travis Hunter. Can't drop too far.

we can only hope they pass up a mighty haul of picks to draft hunter 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Come on. The Giants season is OVER, and they get absolutely zilch for winning. The only valuable commodity they get for being abjectly terrible all year is incredibly valuable draft capital — and the first pick in every round is as valuable as it gets in that realm. Coaches are members of larger organizations, and they have a responsibility to that organization to look past the shiny object in front of them — an utterly meaningless win — and focus on how they can help make the organization that employs them better for the long term. There is only path for that, and it ain’t winning a game in week 17 that gets you to 3-13.

 

I also *guarantee* you that pretty much every Giants fan agrees with me. As would every Jets fan who remembers missing out on Trevor Lawrence and settling for Zach Wilson. Lawrence is good-not-great but certainly possesses franchise-level talent. Zach Wilson is an absolute bust.

 

The fact that NFL coaches aren’t “wired that way” (ie, accepting that it’s ok to figure out how to lose without it being blatantly obvious) is frankly their problem. I suspect Mayo will put his own interest above his employer’s next week, but perhaps he’ll surprise me.

 

 

Lmao “make yourself look worse so your employer benefits and you lose your job.”

[boco357]

Time to job Barry Horowitz style.

Edited December 30, 2024 by boco357

[gonzo1105]

32 minutes ago, Success said:

Pats don't look like much now - but Maye looks like he could be good, and a Herschel Walker kind of trade might vault them into contention.

 

You don't TRY to lose - but losing next week would be better long term.  Imo.

 

 

I would be very very surprised if anyone gave up a huge load of picks for either Sanders or Ward this year. I know desperation is a stinky cologne. Would someone be willing to trade up and move some picks sure but I can't see a 3 1st rounders type thing. I think the franchise that does that sets themselves up for a world of agony. Neither of these guys look like game changers to me.

[Albany,n.y.]

I remember the debates in the drought years.  There were plenty of fans advocating that in order to be a true fan you have to root for wins even if they're at the end of the season, are meaningless & cost the team draft position.  I and with my fellow tank the end of the season games fans, were brutally flamed by those "root for wins every game" advocates.   It now appears that many Giants fans understand that as a fan you can root for losses. I always said that fans who are rooting for meaningless wins are blurring the lines between team employees, who have to try to win, and fans, who have no such obligation.  My rational was, as a fan, I can look at the big picture and want the better chance to draft an impact player-especially if the team needs a QB.  I would say I was here before the players, coaches & GMs before they got here & I'll be here afterwards (although that may no longer be true at my age). 

 

So, I'll be rooting for the Bills to out-tank NE & cost them the #1 pick.  I'll certainly be rooting for NE next Sunday, even if I'm watching with my Josh Allen jersey on.    

[dave mcbride]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Lmao “make yourself look worse so your employer benefits and you lose your job.”

What outcome is objectively better for the employer paying you a seven-figure salary and which you have no reason to gripe about given the 2-13 record you’ve amassed? Lotteries exist in other sports for good reason: rational organizations gamed the old system because it was objectively in their interest to do so. The fact that NFL coaches are foolish in this regard does not speak well of their intelligence.

[gonzo1105]

8 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I remember the debates in the drought years.  There were plenty of fans advocating that in order to be a true fan you have to root for wins even if they're at the end of the season, are meaningless & cost the team draft position.  I and with my fellow tank the end of the season games fans, were brutally flamed by those "root for wins every game" advocates.   It now appears that many Giants fans understand that as a fan you can root for losses. I always said that fans who are rooting for meaningless wins are blurring the lines between team employees, who have to try to win, and fans, who have no such obligation.  My rational was, as a fan, I can look at the big picture and want the better chance to draft an impact player-especially if the team needs a QB.  I would say I was here before the players, coaches & GMs before they got here & I'll be here afterwards (although that may no longer be true at my age). 

 

So, I'll be rooting for the Bills to out-tank NE & cost them the #1 pick.  I'll certainly be rooting for NE next Sunday, even if I'm watching with my Josh Allen jersey on.    

 

The Bills flat out ruined getting a franchise QB multiple times because they decided to win a late meaningless game. Or they would win a game to make themselves 5-11 to drop them to like 9th instead of having a top 6 pick.

 

Antonio Pierce has cost himself his job in the future with these two wins in back to back weeks to drop them from 2 to 8.

Edited December 30, 2024 by gonzo1105

[machine gun kelly]

3 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

I feel like this is pretty immaterial as the Giants need a QB and the Pats don't.

And the Giants can probably trade up, but this is known to be a weak QB class.  I like Daboll and Schoen, but only to a point.

[Albany,n.y.]

3 hours ago, benderbender said:

The highlight of preseason Hard Knocks was Joe Schoen's daughter telling him to draft JJ McCarthy and his son telling him to trade for Jayden Daniels. 

It will be interesting to see what happens in Minnesota.  Does JJ McCarthy get traded like Trent Green with the Rams after Warner took his job?  If the Vikings re-sign Darnold they may be looking to trade McCarthy.  If the Giants can't get Sanders or Ward, do they trade for McCarthy by either giving this year's 2nd and another pick, or trading next year's #1?  

[FireChans]

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

What outcome is objectively better for the employer paying you a seven-figure salary and which you have no reason to gripe about given the 2-13 record you’ve amassed? Lotteries exist in other sports for good reason: rational organizations gamed the old system because it was objectively in their interest to do so. The fact that NFL coaches are foolish in this regard does not speak well of their intelligence.

If Daboll is going to get fired, there is zero reason for him to lose games purposefully. It will only harm him get jobs in the future to completely bottom out. 
 

So yeah, it’s extremely intelligent to not tank if you won’t see the objective interest lol

[TBBills Fan]

1 hour ago, boco357 said:

Time to job Barry Horowitz style.

 

I was also sad there is no Barry Horowitz gif stored on the world wide web

Edited December 30, 2024 by TBBills Fan

[frostbitmic]

It would benefit the Bills to lose to the patriots and ruin their shot at the #1 draft pick and the bounty of picks that would bring them.

 

Would either Jersey team, Vegas, Cleveland, Dallas or N'awlins trade up for Sanders and hire his dad to be HC ? ... All of those teams minus maybe Cleveland (Can't blame Stefanski for Watson and Winston) will be looking for a new coach.

[Da webster guy]

5 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

This is why you would be never allowed anywhere near an NFL field. At no point does a coach and players ever want to lose a game

You should watch more football then

 

Start with the Bucs sitting their starters in the final game 6 years ago to get 1st crack at Jameis in the draft.   Its not debatable.   Clear tank.  The Colts/Rams game prior to Luck draft also obvious.

 

Players not trying i've never seen, but fielding a less than optimal team to get a QB that might be your ticket to a dozen years of playoff appearances is another story.

[Ya Digg?]

6 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

You should watch more football then

 

Start with the Bucs sitting their starters in the final game 6 years ago to get 1st crack at Jameis in the draft.   Its not debatable.   Clear tank.  The Colts/Rams game prior to Luck draft also obvious.

 

Players not trying i've never seen, but fielding a less than optimal team to get a QB that might be your ticket to a dozen years of playoff appearances is another story.

But those aren’t coach or player decisions. Those are GM owner decisions. Organizations might want to tank, but coaches and players don’t 

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Giants’ victory today was a fireable offense for Daboll — totally selfish, and I mean that. It calls to mind the Jets beating the Rams in 2020, which caused them to lose Trevor Lawrence for Zach Wilson.

Are the Patriots a smarter organization than the Giants?

 

Patriots don't need a QB, do they?

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

If Daboll is going to get fired, there is zero reason for him to lose games purposefully. It will only harm him get jobs in the future to completely bottom out. 
 

So yeah, it’s extremely intelligent to not tank if you won’t see the objective interest lol

No one is hiring Daboll as HC after this (I’ll bet you good money too) and he is employed by the Giants, who would have materially benefited from a loss today. Address the lottery issue: why do other leagues do it? I think you know the answer. Also, tell me a little more about Adam Gase’s subsequent NFL career after ruining the Jets’ 2020 tank, which prevented the 2-14 Jets from landing Trevor Lawrence.

22 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Patriots don't need a QB, do they?

Someone does, and having the first overall pick means they can trade it for a boatload of picks. Look up earlier in the thread, where this is discussed at some length. Also, look at recent history — the Bryce Young and Trey Lance trades, to start.

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

But those aren’t coach or player decisions. Those are GM owner decisions. Organizations might want to tank, but coaches and players don’t 

Then there is an organizational disconnect, which is a Giants problem. The best physical talent on the field today in that game was Malik Nabers, and the coach chose to feature him. That was a choice, and one that didn’t benefit the organization that employs Daboll and pays him a seven-figure salary for a 2-13 record.

Edited December 30, 2024 by dave mcbride

[FireChans]

10 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

No one is hiring Daboll as HC after this (I’ll bet you good money too) and he is employed by the Giants, who would have materially benefited from a loss today. Address the lottery issue: why do other leagues do it? I think you know the answer. Also, tell me a little more about Adam Gase’s subsequent NFL career after ruining the Jets’ 2020 tank, which prevented the 2-14 Jets from landing Trevor Lawrence.

I think you’re misunderstanding,

 

I know teams tank.

 

i know it’s probably smart for the Giants to tank at this point.

 

What I find very odd is you expect an employee of a company to make himself look worse to future employers right before he gets fired for the sole benefit of the company who is gonna fire him. 
 

Would you be picking up extra shifts to benefit your company if you were getting fired in 2 weeks? Of course not. That’s not selfish. That’s self-interest.

 

If the Giants wanted Dabs to tank, they should have empowered him to do so.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

15 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

I remember the debates in the drought years.  There were plenty of fans advocating that in order to be a true fan you have to root for wins even if they're at the end of the season, are meaningless & cost the team draft position.  I and with my fellow tank the end of the season games fans, were brutally flamed by those "root for wins every game" advocates.   It now appears that many Giants fans understand that as a fan you can root for losses. I always said that fans who are rooting for meaningless wins are blurring the lines between team employees, who have to try to win, and fans, who have no such obligation.  My rational was, as a fan, I can look at the big picture and want the better chance to draft an impact player-especially if the team needs a QB.  I would say I was here before the players, coaches & GMs before they got here & I'll be here afterwards (although that may no longer be true at my age). 

 

So, I'll be rooting for the Bills to out-tank NE & cost them the #1 pick.  I'll certainly be rooting for NE next Sunday, even if I'm watching with my Josh Allen jersey on.    

 

I am an “always root for a win” fan. More important to have guys that play hard and sometimes these late season wins can build great momentum for the following year.  Also, when we were in the drought, I figured draft position didn’t matter anyway because we were going to screw up the pick regardless.  😃 

[JP51]

18 hours ago, FireChans said:

Why would Daboll let himself get fired so the Giants get a better pick?

 

Selfish? lol.

Yes as well as a guy like Drew Lock tanking his chance at starting so he can get cut and the Giants get a better pick to draft his replacement... i get the thought but not so much agree with it 

[FireChans]

4 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Yes as well as a guy like Drew Lock tanking his chance at starting so he can get cut and the Giants get a better pick to draft his replacement... i get the thought but not so much agree with it 

This is a great point.

 

@dave mcbride should Drew Lock have thrown a couple more picks instead of balling out? He's getting paid a lot of money and it would be better for his organization for him to suck and lose more. Sure, he's almost certainly not going to be a Giant next year, but it was selfish of him to play well, right?