Ravens fan hopping in to say... "told you so"... to all the doubting Bills fans from 4+ years ago...

[Kelly to Allen]

5 hours ago, julian said:

Again.. you seem to be speaking on behalf of those who believe team success determines individual greatness in QBs, you’re correct that everyone has their own opinion and some people choose the criteria of individual play to determine greatness.

 

To be considered the best by the media and by those who subscribe to the media’s criteria then Brady is the GOAT and Mahomes has a way to go, but nobody is ever going to consider Bradshaw in any conversation with all his winning and SBs, so the goal posts seem to be wherever one wishes to place them.

 

 I just happen to believe the purest way of evaluating greatness is to watch them play the game of football, everybody could find a stat or metric to support an argument or simply look at team success… that’s fine but it’s just confirmation bias in most cases.

 

when someone doesn’t agree with you, don’t assume they’re lying, assume they may know something you don’t. I’ve self corrected many points of view after having an open heart mind to possibly changing it.

 

 

The goal posts move in life or sports because of corruption or something needs to be proven to create a new foundation or paradigm. 

 

Allen ( proving he's better than mahomes) still needs to happen 

 

Ppl in media, fans, big corporations that create commercials etc aren't convinced yet but that door is creeping open 

[djp14150]

8 hours ago, Kelly to Allen said:

They're both gold jacket Legends 

Gold teeth in a jacket doesn’t count Lamar…

[Kelly to Allen]

5 hours ago, T.E. said:

The only one who really every gets brought down is Allen. Jackson is the one who is handled with kid gloves by the media while Allen is routinely criticized. Jackson won the MVP after a pedestrian season when Allen had more than 50% more TDs than him. Jackson went to the Pro Bowl in 2021 with 16 TDs and 13 INTs while Allen and his 42 TDs got snubbed.

 

It's totally fine to point out that Jackson went to a perfect situation and has benefitted from a better running game, a better defense, and better coaching for his entire career.

That's because Allen is a legitimate threat to mahomes. Even honest KC fans will tell you this. 

 

But until Allen takes over mahomes mountain and names it Allens Alps, it will continue to be mahomes mountain 😂 

Edited 22 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Rico]

If the GMs for the other 31 teams could straight-up trade their starting QB for Josh Allen (disregarding financials), the Chiefs would be the only one who would say no. That includes the Ravens.

[Kelly to Allen]

3 hours ago, T.E. said:

Almost none of this actually happened. Bill Pollan made one off-handed comment before the draft about how he might be better as a receiver, it was universally treated as sacrilege, and Jackson has been getting his balls washed by the media ever since.

This is true. They almost put polian through a struggle session over it honestly. It was pretty ridiculous. Especially considering Kelly was asked to switch positions, Tebow was asked to switch positions, Steve Young, Julian Edelman, Matt Jones etc etc ...

They were all asked to switch positions at various points and times over the decades in all kinds of varying points of context. 

 

The media then pretended kordell Stewart never existed and basically made up a narrative to pretend polian was twirling his mustache. They painted polian like he was some Archie Bunker figure who was " unenlightened"

 

It was pretty disgraceful and hilarious at the same time. 

 

All that being said Lamar was doubted for some fair reasons and he has answered in a big way, especially the past two years imo. 

 

His only box left to check is the playoffs and in the playoffs with his arm in a big way. For me that's my only question left

Edited 22 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[julian]

28 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Mahomes from the eye test is the greatest QB that's ever lived imo

 

Mahomes is more talented than Brady

 

Mahomes from an accolades/ rings/ all pros etc is off to the Greatest start maybe in sports history. Larry Bird is probably the other athlete that had such a fast start

 

You can argue with the team success or just remove the team success. Either way he's viewed by many as the greatest ever. 

 

*** Josh Allen has very similar numbers lately, and is in many respects a doppelganger to mahomes. 

 

But Allen in his 2nd year was still developing. Mahomes in his second year won MVP. Since 2020 when Allen got out of his development stage and he got real wrs in diggs and Gabe the numbers have been very close but with a very slight edge to mahomes. 2020 is when the surrounding infrastructure around Allen was at least close to KC.

 

In order for Allen to authentically take the top spot and seriously shift the sports consciousness. To make it the Allen paradigm, 

 

He wins MVP, he beats mahomes in the playoffs, he wins the SB and SB MVP , and then next year he's in the MVP conversation again or he beats mahomes again. 

 

He would then be 6-2 vs mahomes since 21 and this will begin to open up the door where ppl in high up sports discussions are going to say wait... Allen really is better etc 

 

But he has to do it. 

 

 

Here's what I will say to support your argument. The reason some KC fans like Matt verderame for sports illustrated or others in the media are making very disrespectful comments about Allen is because that door is barely creeping open. In the 13 seconds game it started to open and he was a real threat to take over the league 

 

That moment has occurred again potentially here starting in the playoffs 

 

And because sports resembles life, just like with a regime in power, if their legitimacy is starting to be held in question, that regime will lash out. Or when orthodoxy is questioned if a new ideology emerges , the old guard will begin to lash out and try to denigrate the new paradigm.

 

If Allen wins the Superbowl, it's going to open up the door even more. But he actually has to storm the castle and take power metaphorically speaking 

I 100% agree with you on what it’s going to take to shift the media and thus the masses opinion on where Josh Allen stands amongst his peers.

 

 It wasn’t that long ago when there was no advanced metrics and DVOA and EPA and the dozens of other metrics that are readily available minuets after every game, there wasn’t 24/7 talking heads examining every detail of every pass or play run.

 

 Without all that excessive information, nobody had any problems determining  that Marino was on a different level than Kelly regardless of head to head record or 4 straight SB appearances, you just had to watch Marino throw a football.

 

Im not sure what you’re seeing when you watch Mahomes play football that tells you he’s better than Allen playing the game of football, it’s your opinion but I see a bigger, stronger, faster, more elusive, bigger arm and more big plays from Allen.

[Kelly to Allen]

4 minutes ago, julian said:

I 100% agree with you on what it’s going to take to shift the media and thus the masses opinion on where Josh Allen stands amongst his peers.

 

 It wasn’t that long ago when there was no advanced metrics and DVOA and EPA and the dozens of other metrics that are readily available minuets after every game, there wasn’t 24/7 talking heads examining every detail of every pass or play run.

 

 Without all that excessive information, nobody had any problems determining  that Marino was on a different level than Kelly regardless of head to head record or 4 straight SB appearances, you just had to watch Marino throw a football.

 

Im not sure what you’re seeing when you watch Mahomes play football that tells you he’s better than Allen playing the game of football, it’s your opinion but I see a bigger, stronger, faster, more elusive, bigger arm and more big plays from Allen.

 

Mahomes earlier in his career was more consistent and could play on the edge of chaos a little bit more consistently than Allen 

 

Allen didn't catch up to mahomes from an eye test standpoint until the 2021 year. 

 

Allen's playoff game vs the Patriots was so profound imo that it made me think differently and that the eye test was extremely close. 

 

Obviously everyone knows that Allen was way more raw coming into the NFL. And it was in year 3 and more so year 4 that he truly started to blossom as a qb

Edited 22 hours ago by Kelly to Allen

[Rico]

14 minutes ago, Rico said:

If the GMs for the other 31 teams could straight-up trade their starting QB for Josh Allen (disregarding financials), the Chiefs would be the only one who would say no. That includes the Ravens.

AND if you gave the other teams their choice of either Josh or Lamar, Josh would be the unanimous pick. Nothing against Lamar, I love watching him play. It just is what it is.

Edited 22 hours ago by Rico

[Kelly to Allen]

5 minutes ago, julian said:

I 100% agree with you on what it’s going to take to shift the media and thus the masses opinion on where Josh Allen stands amongst his peers.

 

 It wasn’t that long ago when there was no advanced metrics and DVOA and EPA and the dozens of other metrics that are readily available minuets after every game, there wasn’t 24/7 talking heads examining every detail of every pass or play run.

 

 Without all that excessive information, nobody had any problems determining  that Marino was on a different level than Kelly regardless of head to head record or 4 straight SB appearances, you just had to watch Marino throw a football.

 

Im not sure what you’re seeing when you watch Mahomes play football that tells you he’s better than Allen playing the game of football, it’s your opinion but I see a bigger, stronger, faster, more elusive, bigger arm and more big plays from Allen.

 

Larry Bird was not the greatest athlete... His instincts were profound. He was the Bobby Fisher of basketball and could see things others didn't see. 

 

That's how I see mahomes imo. His instincts are transcendent 

[Sierra Foothills]

21 minutes ago, Rico said:

If the GMs for the other 31 teams could straight-up trade their starting QB for Josh Allen (disregarding financials), the Chiefs would be the only one who would say no. That includes the Ravens.

I think this was totally true before this season began but I think it’s a bit less true now. Based on this season I think there are GMs who view them as equal.

 

JMO

 

[Sojourner]

26 minutes ago, Rico said:

AND if you gave the other teams their choice of either Josh or Lamar, Josh would be the unanimous pick. Nothing against Lamar, I love watching him play. It just is what it is.

Yeah. 
 

It comes down to this interpretation, if I’m building a team from absolute scratch and have no idea where the offense will be best suited, I’m taking Josh. 
 

If I have a team that needs solely an elite QB, I’m taking Lamar. 

In fact. You probably take Josh in both lol

But if it’s one scenario to apply for each. 

[julian]

35 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen said:

 

Larry Bird was not the greatest athlete... His instincts were profound. He was the Bobby Fisher of basketball and could see things others didn't see. 

 

That's how I see mahomes imo. His instincts are transcendent 

Mahomes has the ability to make a play when needed in crunch time like very few ever have, he’s shown to be ahead of Allen in that department thus far, but this story has yet to be fully written and it’s not like Allen hasn’t shown the ability to be clutch also.

 

we’ll see where this all ends up in another 10 years or so.

[GaryPinC]

10 hours ago, Rico said:

AND if you gave the other teams their choice of either Josh or Lamar, Josh would be the unanimous pick. Nothing against Lamar, I love watching him play. It just is what it is.

Lamar's damn good too.  Josh would probably win but not unanimous, I think it would be a close split.

[UKBillFan]

6 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Lamar's damn good too.  Josh would probably win but not unanimous, I think it would be a close split.

 

I agree. It will depend on the make of the rosters. If they had to chose between the two, I can definitely see the likes of the Colts, the Eagles and possibly the Niners going for Jackson due to similarities in the way the roster is built. Plus I think Josh can be too off script for Shanahan. I think the Texans would definitely lean towards him too. The Chiefs would be a toss up. The likes of the Lions and Rams would go for Josh, again due to roster make up. It definitely wouldn't be unanimous, though.

[GaryPinC]

12 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I admit to being one of those guys.

I gave him a ration of shlt his first two years for only being able to use half the field; than I gave him a couple years of he's just another one read QB.

Then last year I shut my piehole when it looked like the game was really starting to slow down for him. Then this year he took an even bigger leap imo, and is now playing the best ball of his life.

 

On a side note while we have you trapped here.

What's up with Roquan Smith's hamstring? That muscle is a lingering pain in the arse and you guys are a completely different D when he's hurt.

Is he OK going forward?

You were right though in his early years.  That's  how Lamar played. Just like Josh was ignoring the short routes to stick it down the field.  That's why McDermott was able to stymie Jackson with our defense. 

Last year was a definite uh-oh with Lamar's development.  Coaches and he agreed to forego scrambling,  they designed most plays that as the pass rush closed in, his back or TE would release just upfield at the same time and Jackson would track that and lob it there.

Then they built on that.  This year I feel like as a play wore on to start the year Lamar would look to pass over scrambling in the first half, scramble over passing in the second.

At this point he's pretty complete.  Just like Josh.

 

Both QBs relinquished their scrambling for a short time to learn how to better decision make and play the game.  Kudos to both and their respective coaching staffs.

I prefer to meet KC over Baltimore in the playoffs if possible.  Travis Henry  pushes me that way. Baltimore will be the toughest out for us.