[Name Only Title] Xavier Worthy

[gjv]

Both Worthy and Coleman are good wide recievers. I think both went to the right team based on their play strengths. 

[JohnNord]

46 minutes ago, MarkyMannn said:

Actually Worthy has 9 tds. You have to include his rushing touchdowns too for a legit comparison

No not really.  Coleman isn’t that type of player 

[Big Turk]

52 minutes ago, MarkyMannn said:

Actually Worthy has 9 tds. You have to include his rushing touchdowns too for a legit comparison

 

That's fine. Then you have to include Worthy's extra 58 targets that would equal an extra 724 receiving yards for Coleman based on his average yards per reception and catch percentage if we extrapolate that out.

 

See how that works?

[BearNorth]

I think worthy benefitted from Hollywood being out, and that inflated his numbers a bit.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

So Troy Franklin, MVS and Diontae Johnson are among the very best separators in the NFL while Tank Dell and Tyreek Hill are below average?

C'mon man, why do you folks keep using absurd charts like this to support narratives?

Lol, I haven’t broken down each snap of every WR. If you have some information that disputes this please feel free to share. If not, it sounds like you only want to see information that supports your hopes and feelings. That’s not a strong way to analyze performance. 
 

P.S. I can find a similar chart from Coleman in college that is even worse looking.

Edited 23 hours ago by Kirby Jackson

[BringBackFlutie]

Paging @Logic. Come get your false validation so I can deal with you pining after Marquise Goodwin 2.0 for the next week. 

[jkeerie]

2 hours ago, The 9 Isles said:

This conversation is one of the reasons the trade should not have been made. 
 

Buffalo fans have enough hang ups why hand over another piece to KC even if he would have gone there in another manner.  
 

it just didn’t need to happen via the Bills. 

It doesn't matter.  All teams try to improve themselves.  Chiefs got the guy they wanted.  Bills got the guy they wanted and parlayed it into extra draft picks as well.  Worthy and Coleman are two different types of receivers.  One has speed, the other has size and can make contested catches.  

 

And if the Bills aren't afraid of the Chiefs, the fans need to stop being afraid of the Chiefs.  We all have PTSD from the Patriots and Brady.  The difference is beating the Pats was an anomaly for the Bills.  Not KC.  We beat them half the time.  We just need to beat them in the right half.

[NickelCity]

Coleman in that Seahawks game convinced me. He can play.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

Buffalo didn’t really get “an additional 3rd round pick”.  They moved up from pick 133 (4th round) to pick 95 (3rd round).  There’s a very strong possibility that Carter would have been available at pick 133.

 

I've been following the draft closely for a very long time........and I would say it was very unlikely that Carter would have lasted another full round plus.   He isn't a great athlete but you don't usually see that combination of size, requisite ability, motor and great intangibles in a DT get to the late 4th.   He was 60-100 range prospect all thru the process, IMO.

 

But the trade winner will come down to whether Coleman is better than Worthy.   I think Coleman will have the better career based on what we've seen of the two of them this season.  Coleman has been better than advertised at FSU........Worthy has been a bit lesser than expected.    But time will tell.   

[BigAl2526]

The games Coleman missed were later in the season when he was generally more productive in the games he played.  There's a good chance that had he played in those five games, his yardage total would have been higher than Worthy's.  Coleman has been better than I expected.  I think he's going to have a solid career.

[Nephilim17]

Part of the Bills fans PTSD is not only thinking we have a good/great team and player but that our opponents have poor players. Especially when it comes to players we could've drafted (just like any of the other 30 teams that didn't pick a certain player when they could have).

 

It's ok to have a good team with a great QB and to admit that KC is a great team and that Worthy might just be good or better. Not saying he will for a career, but he's showing signs that he might be.

But if it makes you feel better to insist Worthy will never be good, have at it... 

[DapperCam]

Worthy has been okay, but I can't help but feel like this is kind of his ceiling. Gadget run plays, man-coverage beating crossers and the occasional deep chuck with him trying to beat the safety. He's never going to be like Hill, he's way lighter. He's not as well rounded as a player like DeVonta Smith (another undersized WR).

I guess that's worth a late first? Rice to me is a much better WR on that team, unfortunate for the Chiefs that he blew up his knee (and can't stay out of trouble).

[Billl]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I've been following the draft closely for a very long time........and I would say it was very unlikely that Carter would have lasted another full round plus.   He isn't a great athlete but you don't usually see that combination of size, requisite ability, motor and great intangibles in a DT get to the late 4th.   He was 60-100 range prospect all thru the process, IMO.

 

But the trade winner will come down to whether Coleman is better than Worthy.   I think Coleman will have the better career based on what we've seen of the two of them this season.  Coleman has been better than advertised at FSU........Worthy has been a bit lesser than expected.    But time will tell.   

I have been impressed with Coleman.  He looks like a hell of a player, and I’d whole-heartedly agree that he was better than advertised until his injury.  That said, what could you have possibly expected from Worthy if 9 TDs and 750 yards of offense is less than expected?  He’s been the #1 WR on the Chiefs as a 21 year old rookie.  The only rookie WR who has put up demonstrably better numbers than Worthy is Brian Thomas Jr.  For comparison, Dalton Kincaid and Keon Coleman have a combined 900 yards and 5 TDs.  

 

At this point, I’m not sure how DeWayne Carter even factors into the calculus.  He’s a 24 year old rookie who will be lucky to make the team next year.  Daniel Jeremiah (whose opinion I actually respect more that’s any other draft “expert”) had Carter ranked the highest of anyone I saw at 75th overall.  Nearly everyone else had him as a 4th round pick.

 

I’m a rival fan, so of course I love to needle y’all, but hot damn, I can’t believe Beane handed us that pick on a silver platter.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

I have been impressed with Coleman.  He looks like a hell of a player, and I’d whole-heartedly agree that he was better than advertised until his injury.  That said, what could you have possibly expected from Worthy if 9 TDs and 750 yards of offense is less than expected?  He’s been the #1 WR on the Chiefs as a 21 year old rookie.  The only rookie WR who has put up demonstrably better numbers than Worthy is Brian Thomas Jr.  For comparison, Dalton Kincaid and Keon Coleman have a combined 900 yards and 5 TDs.  

 

At this point, I’m not sure how DeWayne Carter even factors into the calculus.  He’s a 24 year old rookie who will be lucky to make the team next year.  Daniel Jeremiah (whose opinion I actually respect more that’s any other draft “expert”) had Carter ranked the highest of anyone I saw at 75th overall.  Nearly everyone else had him as a 4th round pick.

 

I’m a rival fan, so of course I love to needle y’all, but hot damn, I can’t believe Beane handed us that pick on a silver platter.

What role do you have in the Chiefs organization Billl? 
 

Did you hand scout Mahomes and convince Veach to draft him? 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, gjv said:

Both Worthy and Coleman are good wide recievers. I think both went to the right team based on their play strengths. 

Get off this board with that reasonable take!!! 
 

if we are going to blindly say which rookie wr is best, Brian Thomas JR might be the best, with Ladd 2nd.  But of course, he gets to stat pad. Situation matters so much for these guys. 

[Success]

15 minutes ago, Billl said:

I have been impressed with Coleman.  He looks like a hell of a player, and I’d whole-heartedly agree that he was better than advertised until his injury.  That said, what could you have possibly expected from Worthy if 9 TDs and 750 yards of offense is less than expected?  He’s been the #1 WR on the Chiefs as a 21 year old rookie.  The only rookie WR who has put up demonstrably better numbers than Worthy is Brian Thomas Jr.  For comparison, Dalton Kincaid and Keon Coleman have a combined 900 yards and 5 TDs.  

 

At this point, I’m not sure how DeWayne Carter even factors into the calculus.  He’s a 24 year old rookie who will be lucky to make the team next year.  Daniel Jeremiah (whose opinion I actually respect more that’s any other draft “expert”) had Carter ranked the highest of anyone I saw at 75th overall.  Nearly everyone else had him as a 4th round pick.

 

I’m a rival fan, so of course I love to needle y’all, but hot damn, I can’t believe Beane handed us that pick on a silver platter.

 

You don't think Worthy falls to KC regardless of the trade?

 

I do, but we'll never know.

 

And I'm excited about Carter.  He was only really healthy at the beginning of the season, and he made some impact plays those first few games.  It felt like he was in the backfield a lot and he didn't seem like a rookie. Like Coleman, he's had some injury issues since.

 

[Utah John]

I keep expecting an NFL-intensity tackle to snap Worthy in half.  

 

In the meantime, Coleman is settling in nicely.  He has to settle for getting his share, just like everyone not named Shakir or Kincaid, whom I think Josh tends to look for first, not that I blame him. I think Coleman will turn out to be a great WR2.  The WR1 will be drafted next spring.  Shakir will be one of the best slot receivers in the league.  The Bills offense is going to get even better next year.  

33 minutes ago, Billl said:

I have been impressed with Coleman.  He looks like a hell of a player, and I’d whole-heartedly agree that he was better than advertised until his injury.  That said, what could you have possibly expected from Worthy if 9 TDs and 750 yards of offense is less than expected?  He’s been the #1 WR on the Chiefs as a 21 year old rookie.  The only rookie WR who has put up demonstrably better numbers than Worthy is Brian Thomas Jr.  For comparison, Dalton Kincaid and Keon Coleman have a combined 900 yards and 5 TDs.  

 

At this point, I’m not sure how DeWayne Carter even factors into the calculus.  He’s a 24 year old rookie who will be lucky to make the team next year.  Daniel Jeremiah (whose opinion I actually respect more that’s any other draft “expert”) had Carter ranked the highest of anyone I saw at 75th overall.  Nearly everyone else had him as a 4th round pick.

 

I’m a rival fan, so of course I love to needle y’all, but hot damn, I can’t believe Beane handed us that pick on a silver platter.

Carter looked pretty darn good before his injury.  For whatever reason, he hasn't had the same impact since returning.  Then again, no one on the Bills D line has looked good for the past two months.

[Matt_In_NH]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This is tricky for me because I wasn’t a Coleman guy coming out. I had a lot of guys over him (Worthy being one). I think Ladd McConkey would have been the right pick for his consistent ability to get open. I thought that skill set was way more important than a jump ball guy. I thought that they needed someone that could handle volume and win his matchups when things were tough like last week. Unfortunately, that appears to be true.

 

Worthy’s explosiveness would have added an element to the Bills. He’s good and going to be good. Coleman has been a little better than I expected but that’s not a huge endorsement. He has good body control and can get down the field. This was my concern though and he’s living up to it:

 

 

Am I missing Khalil Shakir or is this just outside guys?

 

I cant remember who, I think it may have been the guy from "reception perception" who said with all his data he had Keon higher than most because he is elite in a trait that has proven to be an indicator of production.  That trait is body control....

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Am I missing Khalil Shakir or is this just outside guys?

 

I cant remember who, I think it may have been the guy from "reception perception" who said with all his data he had Keon higher than most because he is elite in a trait that has proven to be an indicator of production.  That trait is body control....

No Harmon wasn’t a Keon Coleman fan because he can’t separate (from man and press) and because of that he had a limited path to production as a big slot. 
 

This chart is exactly what Coleman is - can’t separate at all, but is a playmaker with the ball in his hands. 
 

Not surprising on that chart is Worthy right next to Wandale Robinson. 

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

No Harmon wasn’t a Keon Coleman fan because he can’t separate (from man and press) and because of that he had a limited path to production as a big slot. 
 

This chart is exactly what Coleman is - can’t separate at all, but is a playmaker with the ball in his hands. 
 

Not surprising on that chart is Worthy right next to Wandale Robinson. 

 

Seems funny when I see him get the ball and he is the only player on the screen until they widen out the angle.

 

Also seems kinda hard to average almost 21 yards a catch and have an ADOT(Average Depth Of Target) of almost 16 yards if you aren't getting some sort of separation.

 

Those metrics became fake to me when it says Tyreek Hill can't separate.

Edited 19 hours ago by Big Turk